The Knowledge of Good and Evil

Originally posted by defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by smallpeeps

 

I'm guessing you grew up around Catholicism. Nothing like that ever occurred in my church, or any church that I would associate with. Not all Churches are bad, but there are bad apples in every bushel.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Please don't be a fool, or play the fool, if you are going to use that very dangerous tool, called the keyboard. Since you are a moderator on an IP forum. Since you wear the badge, and your whole post is surrounded by a disclaimer, really, I don't have to say anything about how totally controlled our modern world, is.

Or perhaps you have never heard of the people who say that the IP network, is the enemy of children, or the exploiter of children? Have you not sat in any American church, and hear them all say "The Internet is the tool of the devil" and have you not noticed that they ALWAYS use "the children's safety" as the banner under which they attack truth? Please do comment in detail, and I will respond in the same spirit.

Every religion has "Sunday School" or "Bible Class", where the kiddies go, while the adults go to a different place. Every religion has totally child-obsessive sports programs and teaching regimen. Every religion is child obsessed. Now the only question is this: Is Sunday School, designed to give different programming to the parents, as to the children. That is to say, the program is crafted differently, for the parent, than the programming which the child is designed to retrieve.

But really now, it is the State (as in the case of Hitler, the ultimate State-ist) who is also child-obsessed. So really both church (all churches) and states, that design programs to control and indoctrinate the young. And yet it's so funny because Adam and Eve, the whole pivot of the Abrahamic churches, were never children!

Yet Jesus, the savior/terminus of the Abrahamic religions, told his followers and devotees, to shut the hell up, and he moved them aside, and brought a child forward and told them, essentially, "Unless you drop all you stupid bickering and stupid ideas, and emulate this child, you will not be getting to Heaven." Well, that is how I would read his words and actions from those scriptures I am alluding to.

So the key question is, why did YHWH of the Abrahamic texts, never create children, and only saw the adults as being truly human (able to choose)? And why did his supposed son, totally mock the adults, and say that children were the truly godlike ones? Jesus plainly said that heaven belongs to children, hence, they hold the title to Earth. Remember how Jesus said the meek, would inherit the Earth? Well who is more meek than children? And it is children empowered, who will empower good (and meek) adults, who will be the adults that explain how to end wars, which is the ultimate goal of all children. Know this: The ending of war is the ultimate goal of children, because all children get wrecked and destroyed by war. This is an undeniable truth, and I bet Jesus knew this. He was not a tyrant, not an Alexander/Napoleon-type thinker and was therefore a better man. Peace is the way of joy and surplus.

So in essence, the God of Genesis, and his "son", Jesus, have a very different view of the human child, and of war itself.

Polar opposites really. And, therein, lies the key.

Originally posted by Inquisitive1
I cannot help but think: Clearly this God did not intend for us to know the difference between Good and Evil, or even know there were such things.

This is where I have to stop you and correct your line of thinking. God doesn't have a plan B. your above statement assumes God does not know all things and that God did have a plan B.

God knows all things, I know it's hard for us mortals to comprehend the ability of knowing all things, but if you are going to bring up God, it is a great help to know the nature of God. Not knowing the nature of God is in my opinion one of the single biggest mistakes most religions have, they will have councils and create creeds saying God is this or that, if they make 1 mistake, bam, their entire religion is built upon false teachings, false teachings that in my opinion, no matter how good the intentions were, can easily lead down the road, as the saying goes 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

Let me spell out what God did in the most basic, most simplistic possible way I know how... yes I've studied the Bible extensively.

The key is this, remember, God knows all things. If God knows all things, this is what happened...

Devil (Serpent) is used, he is a tool, a tool used by God? that is correct. You see God used the devil to bring about good, God uses the devil to bring about good all the time.

Devil, thinking he is doing a great evil, tempts Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit.

God knew all along that Eve would succumb to the temptations of the Devil, why do you think God placed the devil in the garden in the first place. The devil thinks he's doing an evil thing which in and of itself is evil, even though he ended up doing a good thing, God knows all along he is doing a good thing, because he knows all things.

The first commandment was this, multiply and replenish the earth.

The second lesser commandment was, don't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Breaking the first commandment is a sin, but you see breaking the 2nd commandment is a transgression, why only a lesser sin? because it's literally impossible to fulfill and follow the 1st commandment if you do not break the 2nd commandment. God knew that sin must exist for Adam and Eve to have the ability to pro-create.

The devil didn't think that far ahead, he claims to be wise but in reality he is a pawn on the game of chess God created.

Adam & Eve being 'kicked out' was simply a way for them to experience life as God intended it to be, you see, plan A is still in effect, there never was a plan B. God knows all things. If Adam & Eve didn't break that particular commandment we would not exist and life would be pointless, an entire planet for the purpose of 2 people to name animals and hang out in a garden forever? That was not God's plan.

The devil is an expert liar, similar to a politician the devil knows that the best and most believable lies are half-truths. The devil didn't deceive Adam, but he did deceive Eve, how? He tells her a half truth. The half-truth was this. 'And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.', Adam partook of the fruit for a good reason. The reason? He knew that if Eve was kicked out of the Garden he and Eve could not fulfill the 1st commandment of multiplying and replenishing the earth. It's possible Adam even before he partook didn't know how to pro-create, but he knew that he needed to be with Eve for it to happen. By sticking by Eve's side he was fulfilling the 1st commandment and was transgressing for a good reason, making Adam a good person. Adam & Eve were cursed with mortality, the devil's lie was that they would "not surely die'', all of God's words came true, God said "in the day that thou eatest thou wilt surely die", Adan & Eve died in the same day they ate of the fruit, they both lived less than 1 thousand years, a measurement of time that God often compares to 1 day in the bible.

There is no plan B for God, only 1 plan, plan A, and we're still in plan A, he makes no mistakes, because he is perfect and knows all things.

reply to post by defcon5


You speak of sin as it has always been a negative. I understand you and most others look at the concept with modern eyes, but to truly understand its concept one should return to its roots. In order to achieve this, one must return to the beliefs and practices of ancient Egypt, more specifically the 18th dynasty and the Amun Priesthood. In doing so, a better understanding of the current prayer worship and its connection to the Sun comes to light(no pun intended).

First a little history before I get into what the breakdown actually was:




Amen, meaning “hidden”, was the main deity of the city of Thebes(Karnak and Luxor) from Pre-Dynastic Egypt and was seen as the creation Deity by the priests of Hemopolis. He was depicted as ram-headed, more specifically a woolly ram with curved horns. When the Thebians established their sovereignty in Egypt during the Middle Kingdom, Amen became a dominant deity and by the 8th Dynasty he had became the king of the gods. His name was spelled, at this time, in different ways, for example Amen, Amon, Amun, Ammon, Amoun and Imen. By the the 11th Dynasty his name was settled on the spelling of Amun and in the 18th dynasty he had been merged with Ra, thus, Amun-Ra, making him half man and half ram. Later he was associated with Horus and was shown as half man and half Hawk which he is better known today, but I digress.

The priests of Amun-Ra, known as the Amun Priesthood began to gain strength and power and in the early 18th dynasty of Egypt and had amassed great wealth by charging for the use of its oracle from both the Pharaoh and the people. This wealth included land, other than the Temple areas. The belief of Amun-Ra included the aspects of the Sun but also the aspects of the Moon god, Sin, and the underworld which was guarded by the 7 children of the god Anu (aka 7 fates, aka the 7 Judges of Hell, represented in the Bible as the 7 deadly SINs) known as the Annunaki(Ananki in Greek).



I would like to pause here and throw in My personal thoughts on the Annunaki. It is said that the Annunaki were/are a reptilian race of humanoids that ruled/rule over man that lived/live underground. So lets put this into perceptive as I see it. The Annunaki were also known as Titans or giants. So, IF they found the bones of dinosaurs like say a t-rex(underground, dead, ie: the underworld) or the stories of dinosaurs were handed down, then add a basic understanding of evolution ie: they came before us, or dinosaurs and man co existed, I think we can assume the mythology of the Annunaki originated here.



So, here we have the duality of the Light and Dark/Sun and Moon/Day and Night/Above and Below/Good and Evil/Life and Death/Amen and Sin. Yes they are dualities, but in reality simply a cycle of progression or the balance of nature. Today we still see this influence within the major Religions, as prayer is ended in homage to Amen and Sin being his opposite. This concept of the duality is actually a balance of natures cycles shown in the Eastern teachings of the Yin and Yang. The Yin or night is never completely dark as the Moon(Sin) illuminates and the Yang or day is never completely light as the shadows darken. It was the split of this cycle that has shifted us from the balance.

Here is a fun little way of showing all things are balance. Please gather a piece of paper(standard computer size). Then fold along the black dotted lines and tear along the red dotted lines in the order shown below.



Then unfold the pieces and place in the order below.



The paper began as neutral, balance, both positive and negative in potential. By folding and or tearing the balance is a perception of positive and negative, and by arranging them the balance, neutral is returned.

By returning to the origin and putting the cycle back together you have a flow of balance or neutrality. God is Loving AND Spiteful/Light and Dark/Sun and Moon/Good and Evil/Amen and Sin as seen throughout the Bible. The eyes of a child only see wonder and amazement with neutral understanding UNTIL told otherwise by the adult.

That whole Bible story makes really no sense to me anyways. Cause according to that story Adam & Eve sinned and now we all have to suffer. Okey doke..then explain this... why are the animals suffering? Same religion claims animals have no afterlife --some say they do have a soul but not a lot of them, many say no. So if thats true, then God made the animals suffer just for the fun of it? If they have no soul then they really can't sin (which they don't sin anyways) so that story...it has no meaning because it can't possibly apply to us when same thing happens to animals.