9,000 year old Caucasian mummy found in Nevada

Just how "disturbed" is the body?

If the local tribe would seek to prevent DNA testing of a European body found recently dead on their land, then Fine. I respect that.

But I doubt that is how it would work out.

Spiritually speaking, if the spirit of the man has not found peace after 9,000 years, he needs some help-- rather than being left alone. Maybe he needs to be remembered for what and who he is? Who is to say?

As for the scientific potential-- DNA testing seems valid. From what (little) I have read, it seems the Japanese/Russian Ainu is a strong possibility and that would be as fascinating as it would be to find that the the remains are an ancestor of the same tribe who loives on that land now. Either way, truth is great-- and either way, it helps us understand ourselves.

Doesn't it?.

Holy crap, I was wondering what happened to my great aunt ellie..... old white folks in Nevada before it was even cool...

Originally posted by ANNED
It is possible for a group of people to have followed the North Atlantic ice sheet from europe.
www.angewandte-geologie.geol.uni-erlangen.de...

While this would indeed have been possible, it would not have put "caucasians" into the Americas. Forget "Clan of the Cave Bear," Cro Magnons did not resemble modern Europeans.

Then you have the mystery of the chicken and the sweet potato (Polynesian trans-oceanic)
Chicken bones found at the site El Arenal near the Arauco Peninsula in Chile support a pre-Columbian introduction of chicken to South America. The bones found in Chile were radiocarbon-dated to between 1304 and 1424, before the arrival of the Spanish. DNA sequences taken were matched to those of chickens in American Samoa and Tonga,

Even if this is factual (it could be a misinterpretation of the data) then a 15th-century contact with the people of South America is STILL vastly more recent than a 9,000 year-old mummy.

Then you have Traces of coca and nicotine found in some Egyptian mummies.
These are both from new world plants.

Yes, because those mummies were contaminated by these substances while on display. Not a single in situ egyptian mummy has been found with these contaminants.

Another curious thing is Spirit Cave man and Wizard's Beach man along with Kennewick Man and Arlington Springs woman were all water people.
Kennewick Man, Arlington Springs woman,Prince of Wales Island Man, Eve of Naharon(Eva de Naharon dated at 13,600 years old) were sea coastal .
www.cnn.com... Spirit Cave man and Wizard's Beach man were people that lived along the large ancient fresh water lakes of Nevada.

The topper site is also coastal and may date as old as 50,000 BCE
www.cnn.com...

...Yeah, most early peoples did live around water and coastlines. That's because we kind of need water. Coasts offer easy pickings for food, as well. Basically, even in the neolithic, these places were prime real estate.

This all leads me to believe The first Americans did use boats and were at ease on water and may have been boat/sail people from ether Siberia or Europe.
And spread down both coast by boat/sail and could have been Caucasian. both Pre Clovis and Clovis cultures
fit this. but the Pre Clovis culture did not have the weapons/stone tech of the later Clovis.
www.pbs.org...
www.scientificamerican.com...

Well, no, as in the time frame we're talking about, there was no one on earth that could be pinned as "caucasian." It would have been an entirely different set of ethnicities populating hte earth back then.

The later native Americans were foot people and spread by walking.

Well, it's rather hard to paddle over land, don't you think? Boat travel was very common, as was international trade; South American Arawaks traded as far north as the Alabama coast, Inca traders rafted up and down the Pacific coast, all major river systems had people canoing up and down then, and the peoples of the North American pacific even had ocean-worthy watercraft. There are stories of Indians even making it to Europe. So no, there's really no point where they stopped boating around.

Were the remaining Clovis people being killed off by the later group(Folsom/Cascade) because of racial differences. (race war???)

Probably not. You're making a pretty steep assumption here, that technology equals race. I'm sure that you can realize just how absurd that notion actually is. it's like saying that Atari people were different from NES people, and the reason nobody plays Atari anymore is because the NES people killed them all.

Originally posted by ANNED
Then you have the mystery of the chicken and the sweet potato (Polynesian trans-oceanic)
Chicken bones found at the site El Arenal near the Arauco Peninsula in Chile support a pre-Columbian introduction of chicken to South America. The bones found in Chile were radiocarbon-dated to between 1304 and 1424, before the arrival of the Spanish. DNA sequences taken were matched to those of chickens in American Samoa and Tonga,
The sweet potato, which is native to the Americas, was widespread in Polynesia when Europeans first reached the Pacific. Sweet potato has been radiocarbon-dated in the Cook Islands to 1000 CE, and current thinking is that it was brought to central Polynesia c. 700 CE and spread across Polynesia from there. It has been suggested that it was brought by Polynesians who had traveled to South America and back, or that South Americans brought it to the Pacific. It is unlikely that the plant could successfully float across the ocean by natural means.
en.wikipedia.org...

There's no mystery in those chicken bones.

Sweet potatoes can propagate by seed, though it's unusual.

Seeds can be carried in a bird's stomach.

Originally posted by ANNEDThen you have Traces of coca and nicotine found in some Egyptian mummies.
These are both from new world plants.

In only a small handful of mummies, each of which spent decades in Europe.

No other such chemicals have ever been found in any other mummies. And yes, they've looked. Still looking, last I heard.

Harte

Neat story.

I have to admit that I daydreamed for a minute when I read "Peyote natives".

Originally posted by jude11
I never did understand how Columbus is credited with discovering something that was already here and the people that were living here at that time were probably very confused when he proclaimed..."I have discovered this new land"

This would be the instant that "Crazy White Man" was first first uttered I believe...

Peace

Actually the reason that columbus couldn't get support from the English or the French or any number of ocean powers at the time. and he did try, was that Castile were the only one who didn't already know that the Americas were there.

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by jude11
I never did understand how Columbus is credited with discovering something that was already here and the people that were living here at that time were probably very confused when he proclaimed..."I have discovered this new land"

This would be the instant that "Crazy White Man" was first first uttered I believe...

Peace

Actually the reason that columbus couldn't get support from the English or the French or any number of ocean powers at the time. and he did try, was that Castile were the only one who didn't already know that the Americas were there.

Could be, could be...

The fact the blinkered native american's blocked the DNA testing is a telling story in itself...
The other side of the story is IF this caucasian (caucasiod for those who think like that), was proved to be the real deal it would mean that the 'native' american's wouldn't be so native anymore and possibly threatened??

Originally posted by Chai_An
The video on the thread JohnnyCanuck posted stated that photos weren't released due to respect for the dead, all one could see were a drawing of the mummy. I find it all strange being that as mentioned in the above thread scientist have paraded mummies all over the world with no regards to "respect" of those mummies. Now all of a sudden they've found "respect" for the dead? It's a shame when news is released by scientists you can't take it as fact because of money to be gained or hidden agendas. I question the whole story something is just not making much sense.

false flag all over it.

also how would they be sure its caucasian, not european.

oh wait, they say caucasian bu they mean European not from CaucAsian/mediterranean or indo aryan, figures.

Originally posted by WatchRider

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by jude11
I never did understand how Columbus is credited with discovering something that was already here and the people that were living here at that time were probably very confused when he proclaimed..."I have discovered this new land"

This would be the instant that "Crazy White Man" was first first uttered I believe...

Peace

Actually the reason that columbus couldn't get support from the English or the French or any number of ocean powers at the time. and he did try, was that Castile were the only one who didn't already know that the Americas were there.

Could be, could be...

The fact the blinkered native american's blocked the DNA testing is a telling story in itself...
The other side of the story is IF this caucasian (caucasiod for those who think like that), was proved to be the real deal it would mean that the 'native' american's wouldn't be so native anymore and possibly threatened??

You have to understand that outcome would mean that the so called "natives" are really genocidal butchers. And the so called "land stealers" really just took back what is rightfully ours. Also explains why Caucasians feel such at home in North America, and why the land never agreed with the Natives and kept them from advancing.

They wouldn't show a picture of the body "out of respect for the dead" What the devil does that mean!?!?!??!?!??! What about the hundreds of museums with thousands of mummies and other "dead" people laying around on DISPLAY?!? What sort of hypocritical statement is this?

I have a theory of course. This mummy, like the other mummies found near Nevada, Utah, and other South Western States was most likely a giant. Probably 8 to 12 foot tall. All we were giving in the video was an artists drawing of the mummy thus hiding any sort of size comparison. This of course is just my opinion based on past treatments of giants found.

More info can be found here on the hundreds of similar giant finds, with Newspaper stories to back them up:
Giant Info

This poor fellow may have been form our time period.Many hundreads of children,people and soldiers were lost in the time experiments at mautulk point.He may have been one of the lost from this one way time exsperiment.

reply to post by WatchRider


Since when does it matter what Indians want? I would rather suspect complicity with the conspiracy of fabricated history. Same reason the cave in the Grand Canyon with hieroglyphs written on the inside was sealed.

And I say that as a card-carryin' Cherokee.

I don't know why First Nation'ers would hate to have this mummy confirmed as European. First, one body does not a civilisation make; the native tribes and peoples have in no way their identity as 'Americans' removed. Second, surely it would be (or could be used as) a symbol of goodwill; a man from across the sea, who died FARRRRR from home, was given the care and reverence in death of this scale by the natives. Am I wrong? (not rhetorical; if my facts are out or someone disagrees, please say)

Originally posted by St Udio
so this issue has not been taken to the Nevada Supreme Court?

i would think it should...because claiming ownership & asserting rights over remains...
needs a justified basis in fact

Just so I understand this line of thinking. We came and mass murdered their people, robbed them of everything possible, took their land, then much later in life gave them "back" the most God awful places in the country to live, to reestablish their own cultures, laws, and beliefs, separate from US jurisdiction. Now we want to go in and take something that was found on "their" land, and force them to conduct tests that defiles everything they believe in as a people, for the sake of science, in "our" court of law?? Why is their court of law not good enough to do it in? I would love to see the impartial judges and/or jury you would ever find in an American court system to make this ruling. Why is it we ALWAYS think we can justify anything we want, even if it means taking things from other people because we know what is best for everyone?

Now that is classic post!

Originally posted by KJV1611
They wouldn't show a picture of the body "out of respect for the dead" What the devil does that mean!?!?!??!?!??! What about the hundreds of museums with thousands of mummies and other "dead" people laying around on DISPLAY?!? What sort of hypocritical statement is this?

Here's a pic of his skull, along with a reconstruction of what he may have looked like when alive.



Satisfied?

You necromongers.

Harte

Why is this so important to the identity of the First Nations?
So what if they didn't just come from Asia across the Bering Straits, and have ancestors from the Pacific, and the Atlantic?
I don't see the Mongolians laying claims to their status, just because they share a distant ancestry.
All it tells us is that official prehistory is not what we were taught.
Apart from that it doesn't matter what exact construction of a "race" the people who were robbed, displaced and dispossessed were.

I agree with you about the importance of history as well. However, didn't we just do this sort of thing in Iraq? Why can't we kick the doors in to the Vatican and start taking DNA samples, or stealing artifacts from there next? Where do we draw the line? If the Indians had a massive military, would we be having this conversation? I am just as curious and would love to know just like the next guy. Personally I would rather see what is in the Vatican and the truth behind the history there more than a DNA test on this specific mummy. The needs (or wants) of the majority shouldn't exceed the needs of the minority in all situations.

Well maybe I don't know enough.
What do the Native Americans in question want to do with it?
Will they destroy it, or is it just a case of what is buried in my backyard belongs to me (which is not a right most colonized peoples and countries enjoyed with their heritage or resources)?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox



Actually technology, style of technology does have certain racial undertones as this "multi-racialism" is a modern practice. You can know who lived what and where, based upon the things they left behind. As per Caucasians not existing 9,000 years ago? Preposterous and if I may even say highlights some of your own innate prejudices.

All Caucasians with blue eyes can trace the beginning of Blue Eyes back 10,000+ years ago near the Black Sea.

But due to anti- Nordic Caucasian prejudices even in Nordic Caucasian Dominated societies... It is a bit hard to find evidence on where the Nordic Caucasians came from. When talking about Ancient History, the Roman and Greek Mediterranean Caucasians steal the lime light(a race that is all but extinct). In fact trying to find documentation of old Caucasian finds in Europe is a bit difficult. All links about Caucasian finds point to North America. Who knows? Maybe the Celtic and Germanic peoples originated in North America and where forced to flee a "native" invasion/genocide?

Caucasian History always rubbed me the wrong way. We are taught more about other cultures and extinct cultures/races then we are about our own racial history. Heck for most "white people" our History doesn't begin till after the fall of the Roman Empire. Very sad state of affairs as the Celtic and Germanic peoples had different Cultures then the Patriarchal Mediterranean Caucasians and Semitics. And different from the more matriarchal "natives" and Sub Sahara African Blacks. No matter.

www.science-frontiers.com...

But every year more information about the Ancient Caucasian American's is becoming common knowledge. And to a greater extent I feel the genocide committed against them has mostly been avenged. As the usurper's were cast out of the lands they stolen, and their descendants made to live in squalor.

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by KJV1611
They wouldn't show a picture of the body "out of respect for the dead" What the devil does that mean!?!?!??!?!??! What about the hundreds of museums with thousands of mummies and other "dead" people laying around on DISPLAY?!? What sort of hypocritical statement is this?

Here's a pic of his skull, along with a reconstruction of what he may have looked like when alive.



Satisfied?

You necromongers.

Harte

If the remains are mummified why are you showing a skull? I think you have a photo of remains totally unrelated to OP mummy.