Democrat Rep. Acknowledges Need for Voter IDs as 12 Georgia Officials Indicted for Fraud

reply to post by Jenna

No one is required by any state I know of to obtain an identification card.

However, if you want to take advantage of certain privileges, then you must prove who you are and that you are a resident. Even Social Security requires you to have a birth certificate, recent correspondence addressed to you from a utility or creditor, or some other proof of residence, like a current lease.

OR, if you want to by-pass the crap, you can obtain a photo identification card from the state. Most aid organizations and many charities provide assistance to the indigent or infirm to comply.

This is no scheme or conspiracy. If you want to live "off the grid," you may, but you will be truly on your own.

If you want to enjoy the "privileges" of citizenship, sometimes you have to act like one.

jw

I don't think this is such a simple cut and dry issue. In my younger, high school days, I thought to myself, "Well, it makes sense that everyone should have to give identification to cast their vote. Otherwise, they may be fraudulent!"

Then I started learning about the real fraud happening in our country - the fraud to PREVENT voting, rather than create more votes through fraud. Voter ID laws, as innocuous as their proponents think they are, don't work in a lot of states. Here is a website that talks about Wisconsin:
www.onewisconsinnow.org...

Out of 3 million votes, 11 were found improper. 8 of them were felons who weren't supposed to be voting anyway. That means that 3 votes were potentially fraudulent. What kind of conspiracy is that? Voter ID proponents think that voting fraud is a huge deal, but honestly, it's not. There are no conspiracies to cast EXTRA votes.

But onto the ID cards themselves. In a state like Wisconsin (an example, but this applies to many states) people are less likely to have state-issued IDs than in some states (like Indiana), and as such, under a Voting ID bill, would have to get a state-issued ID. Approximately 78% of African American males and 66% of African American females would have to go to the DMV and get a new ID. The Bill provides the ID's for free, but does not provide any kind of transportation to the DMV. If you don't have a driver's license already, how are you supposed to GET to the DMV? Especially since Wisconsin provides fewer DMV's than other states like Indiana with voting ID laws. And even if they have a way to get to the DMV and a DMV close by, the DMV is only open during normal work hours. A lot of poorer people cannot take off parts of their day to go to the DMV because they will literally LOSE THEIR JOBS if they leave work to go get their "free" ID.

Do you know what that means? That African American voters, who do not have state-issued IDs or driving licenses, and no way to get to the DMV for their free license, as well as no time during their work day to get to the DMV, are kind of screwed when it comes to voting. So the real fraud in voting are voter ID laws - which make it very difficult if not impossible for minority communities such as African Americans as well as many others listed on that website to get their ID. These communities being prevented from voting (or making it really, really difficult - if the cost is losing your job and the benefit is voting in an election that you are going to get screwed from anyway, why take the time to vote?) constitute the real fraud.

So, there is no organized conspiracy to create extra votes. (cases like the one the OP prevented aside, especially since the problem was "more votes cast than normal" - how do we know that the groups in the OP didn't drive to people's houses and pick up people's ballots and encourage them to vote? Even if that was fraud, this is very much an exception to the rule. They are not part of an ORGANIZED liberal-Dem conspiracy to create voting fraud) There is also clear evidence that Voting ID laws make it harder for minority communities and people who are poorer to vote. This means that their vote is being prevented. The real conspiracy of voting fraud is in the Voter ID laws, which aim to make voting only available for the middle and upper classes. It is a form of oligarchy that we should be fighting against.

reply to post by spacekc929


If all these people don't have an ID ......

Do you know what that means? That African American voters, who do not have state-issued IDs or driving licenses, and no way to get to the DMV for their free license, as well as no time during their work day to get to the DMV, are kind of screwed when it comes to voting.

how is the references to "their work day" valid?

an ID must have been necessary somewhere along the line to even get a job and have taxes withheld under a SS number? or cash a tax refund check?

and they must have transportation to and from a job?

does any state provide transportation to a polling place?

some must have public assistance?

no ID required for anything?

reply to post by spacekc929

1st, you have copied and pasted from another source, which means that you didn't even bother to think on your own;and,
since you did it without attribution to the true source you are pretending these are your own words when they are not.

Ever heard of plagiarism? Ever heard of being banned for plagiarism?

As for the "merits" of this drivel, you rely on driver's license statistics for your preposterous statemnets.
If what you suggest were true than those same populations would have no jobs, state benefits, education, et c.

Your entire proposition is ridiculously without merit.

This is precisely the type of argument that reveals the true motivations of the anti identification efforts.

Your recitation of total convictions would mean one thing if it involved every precinct in every county.
It would mean another entirely if it involved only one precinct in one county, wouldn't it?

deny ignorance

jw

Originally posted by spacekc929


Then I started learning about the real fraud happening in our country - the fraud to PREVENT voting, rather than create more votes through fraud. Voter ID laws, as innocuous as their proponents think they are, don't work in a lot of states. Here is a website that talks about Wisconsin:
www.onewisconsinnow.org...

Out of 3 million votes, 11 were found improper. 8 of them were felons who weren't supposed to be voting anyway. That means that 3 votes were potentially fraudulent. What kind of conspiracy is that? Voter ID proponents think that voting fraud is a huge deal, but honestly, it's not. There are no conspiracies to cast EXTRA votes.

Hmmmm,so no on Voter ID? 1 Fraudulent vote is wrong,sorry. You make it seem like 11 is NO big deal.

About Wisconsin?

Media Trackers discovered that over 20 individuals voted, some illegally, from one of Senator Lena Taylor’s (D-Milwaukee) properties during the April 5, 2011 spring election. According to a Media Trackers open records request with the City of Milwaukee Election Commission, the property at 1018 N 35th St. in Milwaukee currently has 36 active voter registrations and at least 23 individuals voted using the address.

Senator Lena Taylor wants to recall Gov. Scott Walker for what she believes is his misuse of power, but in this case she appears to have been an accessory to illegal voting activities. Furthermore, Senator Lena Taylor was an outspoken critic of the Photo ID bill, but if that bill had been in place it could stopped some of the potential voter fraud that took place from her property.

Outspoken Wisconsin Dem Senator Accessory to Voter Fraud


Typical.............................

reply to post by spacekc929


from your source link;

First of all, the right to vote is guaranteed to citizens of Wisconsin in our state constitution.

well .....

How does one prove they are a genuine "citizen of Wisconsin"?

I would think of one obvious way ....

with an ID

reply to post by spacekc929


from your source link;

Wisconsin's population is substantially less likely to have a state-issued identification. Those without state-issued photo identification and who would need to obtain one under the Wisconsin Voter ID bill include:

•23 percent of all elderly Wisconsinites over the age of 65
•17 percent of white men and women
•55 percent of all African American males and 49 percent of African American women
•46 percent of Hispanic men and 59% of Hispanic women
•78 percent of African American males age 18-24 and 66 percent of African American women age 18-24

well ....

How do people over 65 and collecting SS and Medicare benefits verify their identity to cash checks or withdraw from a bank account or see a doctor?

How do people 21 with no ID buy liquor?

How would elderly people who wish to give power of attorney to a relative be able to prove their identity to a notary or government office?

reply to post by sonnny1

Media Trackers discovered that over 20 individuals voted, some illegally, from one of Senator Lena Taylor’s (D-Milwaukee) properties during the April 5, 2011 spring election. According to a Media Trackers open records request with the City of Milwaukee Election Commission, the property at 1018 N 35th St. in Milwaukee currently has 36 active voter registrations and at least 23 individuals voted using the address.

Map and picture of 1018 N 35th St Milwaukee, WI 53208


it must be the garage !

I wonder if that many people are a code violation?

Just a wacky thought here.
Why not have that little jar of indellable (sp?) ink by the voting booth.

Just like the votes in Iraq, one vote, one blue finger.

You can call yourself Xenon from the planet Plooney.

But you can only vote once.

reply to post by jdub297

No. That is an illogical and unsupportable assertion. I'm telling them to obtain an identifcation card according to their state's requirements.

forcing anyone to obtain a separate and specific ID to vote (which they must pay for) is completely against the voting policies of this country.

i do not ever present my state ID to vote, just the voter registration card ... no photo ID, no state ID, nothing of the kind is or should be necessary.
the clerk checks and marks my name on her computer printout and off to the box/machine i go.
when you register to vote, you are mailed a voter ID card, that should be sufficient.

In all the years i have voted in Calif i have never been ask for ID

In Calif we have the motor voter law and when you get a drivers license you can also register to vote.

Many illegals use fake documents to get drivers licenses and to add real documents to there fakes also register to vote.

Its no secret that there are illegals voting in Calif.
www.commentsonnationalamnesia.com...

And the democrats that run the state don't want this to stop as it gets them many 1000s of votes.

Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by spacekc929

 

from your source link;

Wisconsin's population is substantially less likely to have a state-issued identification. Those without state-issued photo identification and who would need to obtain one under the Wisconsin Voter ID bill include:

•23 percent of all elderly Wisconsinites over the age of 65
•17 percent of white men and women
•55 percent of all African American males and 49 percent of African American women
•46 percent of Hispanic men and 59% of Hispanic women
•78 percent of African American males age 18-24 and 66 percent of African American women age 18-24

well ....

How do people over 65 and collecting SS and Medicare benefits verify their identity to cash checks or withdraw from a bank account or see a doctor?

How do people 21 with no ID buy liquor?

How would elderly people who wish to give power of attorney to a relative be able to prove their identity to a notary or government office?

medicare and social security have their own ID cards - no state ID necessary
banks there often operate on "facial recognition" as their residents and customers have been such for generations [also, other forms of ID are accepted]

not sure about those over 21 but apparently, those under don't need one either ...

Wisconsin permits the consumption of alcohol by minors, provided they are being supervised by parents/guardians/spouses. Most municipalities have a uniform 9 p.m. restriction on all alcohol sales. Notable exceptions: La Crosse, Maple Bluff (near Madison), Baraboo (near the Dells). Supermarkets, liquor stores, and gas stations may sell liquor, wine, and beer.

source
and in a "dry" county (of which they have 3) no alcohol sales take place, so no ID needed.

elderly folk (especially home-bound ones) generally have a plethora of ID options and a state ID isn't always one of them.

edit to add: oh yeah, the 18-24 age group, if they are students, they have a school ID.

reply to post by Honor93

medicare and social security have their own ID cards - no state ID necessary
banks there often operate on "facial recognition" as their residents and customers have been such for generations [also, other forms of ID are accepted]

and how does one prove their identity when applying for a Medicare/SS ID card?

and how does one open a bank account without an ID and SS number?

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by jdub297

 

No. That is an illogical and unsupportable assertion. I'm telling them to obtain an identifcation card according to their state's requirements.

forcing anyone to obtain a separate and specific ID to vote (which they must pay for) is completely against the voting policies of this country.

i do not ever present my state ID to vote, just the voter registration card ... no photo ID, no state ID, nothing of the kind is or should be necessary.
the clerk checks and marks my name on her computer printout and off to the box/machine i go.
when you register to vote, you are mailed a voter ID card, that should be sufficient.

You are nothing if not persistent.
Let me make it clear for you: No One in this thread is calling for a separate ID just to vote. Any old one will do.

Someone above noted that their state has a separate welfare ID and student IDs. Great!
Take them with you when you vote. Very simple.

In my home precinct,I know most of the officials and they do not ask me for ID.
If I vote absentee at the courthouse, sometimes they do not know me and I have to show ID.

So What?

Apologies if this has been covered, but voting is a privilege. You earn the right to vote by a) bering a citizen, b) not commiting felonies.

So voter ID should be something to be proud of.

Just my additional 2 cents.

Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by Honor93

 

medicare and social security have their own ID cards - no state ID necessary
banks there often operate on "facial recognition" as their residents and customers have been such for generations [also, other forms of ID are accepted]

and how does one prove their identity when applying for a Medicare/SS ID card?

and how does one open a bank account without an ID and SS number?

seriously ???
SS is issued upon birth or when your parents apply for it or when you apply for it with your Birth Certificate.

my minor child has had a Credit Union account (with herself as primary and sole account holder) in two states with nothing more than Birth Certificate/SS as ID since she is not old enough to obtain a state ID.

Medicare can be obtained with BC and SS ... no state ID necessary.
as for "banks", couldn't say cause i don't deal with them or their BS

oh yeah almost forgot, i think state assistance was mentioned earlier and here in FL, same goes ... BC/SS ... no state ID required. benefits are digitally transferred to a separate transaction/debit card.

reply to post by jdub297

Let me make it clear for you: No One in this thread is calling for a separate ID just to vote. Any old one will do.

please, let me make it crystal clear for you ... the Thread Title IS calling for separate IDs just to vote and voter registration cards are already issued in every state.

this thread's story is mostly about the abuse of "absentee ballots" anyway ... which also (depending on location) do not require a specific ID to obtain. i get 2 every year in the mail without having EVER requested any and they are generally addressed to "Resident".

my response was directed to your illogical assumption quoted in the post.
question --> when the "officials" are the ones indicted, why would we voters need to change our protocols?? seems to me it's the Officials creating the problem.

Originally posted by jdub297
No one is required by any state I know of to obtain an identification card.

I didn't say the states required you to have one, I said you can't buy alcohol or tobacco products without one and that many places require you show one before they let you use your own debit/credit card to pay for purchases.

I'm uncertain why you phrased your response to me as if you disagreed with what I said when we're pretty much in agreement.. Clicked reply on the wrong post maybe?

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by jdub297

 

Let me make it clear for you: No One in this thread is calling for a separate ID just to vote. Any old one will do.

please, let me make it crystal clear for you ... the Thread Title IS calling for separate IDs just to vote and voter registration cards are already issued in every state.

my response was directed to your illogical assumption quoted in the post.

Maybe you weren't taught the difference between "voter," and "voting."

A Voter is a person; when that person marks a ballot in an election he/she is voting.

The thread is about voters having IDs.

The thread is not about requiring every person to have a separate ID for voting.

In case you have not been paying attention there are constant protests from the Democrats in particular and liberal left in general against requiring a voter to have ANY ID.

As has been noted before, in some states and situations a birth cert. and SS card are sufficient.
Why should a person not be required to prove who they are when they vote?

jw

reply to post by Jenna

Sorry, I guess I could've led into the statement first with an acknowledgement that you are correct.
If you want to take advantage of some state's privileges, you will likely be required to identify yourself.

What I meant to do was counter the perception that some here have that everyone is going to be forced to carry gov't IDs for no reason at all; and make it clear tht if you want to live in a log cabin in the woods, you probably will not need an ID.
If you want to be a hermit, no on will force you to get an ID. If you decide you need to buy, vote, sell, fill a prescription, et c., then you will have to follow state guidelines on how to identify yourself to get permission to do those things.

You are right, though. I'm sure we agree on this, I just didn't say it very well.

Thanks for your posts. Long time, no see.

jw

p.s.: I see that some people's attitudes and avatars haven't changed over time.