Why religions are just as dangerous as 'cults'

reply to post by Gorman91
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Please compare two of your statements:

Look at your own high teen pregnancy rates and abortion rates. I'm not going to lie. The thought has passed me by that it would be a hell of a lot easier if I, as a man, married another man with similar values, because so many women these days are, well to put it simply, whores.

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All, btw, involving the forcing of a certain social code. The act of forcing a social code I have no problem with. It's when it gets in the way of my ability to do things that I will actively rebel against it.

Hmm..

The Bible says this would happen. I have no problem with the fact that what the Bible says would happen would. It was never stated it would be easy.

So you admit the church now has an incredible power over its followers to get them to do whatever they want?

You have a simple problem. You blame everyone of a group for the actions of one. Under that logic, nobody is good. After all, there's a crazy in every group.

I do not blame every follower of a religion; I blame the people controlling those followers. I thought that was fairly obvious. I also stated that not everyone would do anything the church says, but I’m sure you would agree that a majority would.

People die not because of God, but because of the evils of other men. Plain and simple. You can push whatever agenda you want about anybody at all, but you cannot get away from the fact that the body count was done by men of all creeds and lack there of. Simply put, nobody is innocent, and to call attention to one because they killed 5 million where as another group killed 4 million, and say that somehow makes them worse, it, quite simply, not smart. If a religion existed that had killed just one person, they would be just as evil as any religion that had killed a billion. Murder is murder. Numbers don't matter.

Doesn’t the bible state that everything that happens is due to gods will? What about when someone dies of natural causes? I know the body count is done my men, have I ever said anything against that? Once again, it’s not about the followers, its about the people controlling them. I have never said that anyone’s wrong doings are 'worse' then others; but clearly some groups are more 'dangerous' then others.
So if murder is evil, is your god himself not evil?

Had they not that religion, They would find something else. if you got rid of every single reason that people murder others, you wouldn't have a human. You'd have a robot. Our murderous nature is simply part of being human. You either accept that, you blame someone else for it and deny the truth.

Yes they may find something else, but does that make it right to produce that 'something else' when it might just happen naturally? Hate to break it to you but humans technically are robots. You’re the only one I see playing the blame game, I’m just assessing what I see.

Show me a religion that hasn't changed its mind... I won't hold my breathe.

When it comes to the fundamental basis of a religion, I can’t think of one that has changed. See you can change rules here and there but that doesn’t change the fact you refuse to change your views if proved wrong. Where as the fundamental idea of something like atheism, is open to change at anytime and does not change purely to please the angry public.

And what would humanity be without this ugly spot? not human. And no, it is not justifiable by the Bible. Much of it comes from piss poor interpretations of the old testament. Tell me. What nation that used the old testament to justify murder of millions had sanction cities? Can you tell me? Because Israel had Sanction cities. Places you could go if you did do those things that justified your death, and where you could either leave or cleanse yourself. "neutral grounds". Fact is, nobody who did the things ordered in the old testament, to my knowledge at least, had a means by which to have neutral grounds for those people to peacefully move to. Definably not Hitler. Therefore no, nothing he did was biblically justifiable.

Clearly not human but that makes it wrong to want to rectify that problem while others wait to let it happen again. It is justifiable by the bible. The old testament is the basis of your religion wether you like it or not and it warns you about the new testament many times. I just said that Germany did along with America, Britain and many nations in the commonwealth oh and maybe the...VATICAN! So because you believe that the old testament is wrong Hitler wasn’t doing it right? Tomato Tomatah.

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reply to post by Gorman91
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See Israel was a club. You either followed the rules, left, or got killed. It was simple rules, really. And that's just that. Nobody who followed those old testament rules realized that they were only for Israel, not for modern nations. God gave those commands to Israel and only Israel. Israel doesn't exist anymore. Therefore those rules are not viable. The club burned down. And this so-called Israel of today was not sanctioned by God. Where are her sanctioned cities? Where are her judges? It's an invention, once again, by greedy men to justify what they want.

Hmm sounds a lot like western nations not long ago. Once again you’re basing your view on an perception of a misleading text. You can’t say that they are wrong or he is right because neither of you know and even if one of you is right its still all based on lies. Once again the bible warns you of following the new testament, but most christians are too brainwashed to see it. I have been forced to study the bible most of my life and yes this does make me biased against it but that’s because I know it so well. Either way I’m not stating that opinion of the old testament as fact but it is irrelevant to the argument anyway. Please give me evidence that Israel was not sanctioned by god.. Please give me evidence western nations were not sanctioned by the devil. Tomato Tomatah. If you’re talking about greedy men, look at the church.

Please try and think of this away from the argument. Step back, leave emotion behind.

reply to post by WakeUpRiseUp

How is that an assumption?...

You're mixing things again. There were many false prophets. And you should not trust a man with many words on face value. Let him produce proof that he is who he claims. And without proof, destroy him.

I really don't see a million ways to interpret the bibles. There's only on way to interpret the main point to the bible: Jesus saves. A couple of ways to interpret other details, and more and more ways to interpret ever more vague details. I have no problem with wiggle room however. It merely allows people to produce more thoughts. Bible even says that history is a mirror darkly, and you can never know for sure. I do have faith that it is true, and the utter unspecified points to many of the tails allows broad interpretations, ranging from Noah flying a tardis and being a bio medical engineer, to a simple farmer with a boat. To quote a friend, it's a religion that "was designed to travel".

Actually 50,000 years is the mostly accepted age of modern mankind. Give or take 20,000 years. Humanoids broke off the primate tree 5 million years ago. The human form as we know it evolved to nearly as it is today about 200,000 years ago. The human mind, called behavioral modernity, evolved 50,000 years ago with the advent of modern speech, philosophy, religion, culture, art, and all the things that make humans human.

How am I mixing terms? ...

So you say. I've not yet felt any contradiction between science and my faith. How can I claim God made the world in 7 days when science says 4.5 billion? Simple. Jesus says his father never stopped working, even on the Sabbath he broke. Indicating that the Father is not bound by time. a 5 day old father is creating something while his 14 billion year self is also seated at his throne. I rather like how the Watchmen took this concept into a more human level of thought. Simply put, I don't see God as bound by time.




Makes sense to me.

In recent ...

Correctly stated, late 1800s through early 1900s. Prohibition, Woman vote, abolition, immigrant rights, fueled by the red cross and unions, all bound by faith more over than not. These were called "the great awakenings". All of them religious in nature, spurring what it actually says.

Now yes, I do have to accept the bad. See I don't view things through a lens. But that doesn't mean I cannot show how the bads are wrong. Hitler had no real Christian influences. The entire point of Nazism is to worship the state. No other choice. Anything for the state was kept, anything against it destroyed. No real value to it.


Yes it does say kill homosexuals. But I'm sorry, please study your history. Because in 500BC, a homosexual was typically a Greek man who raped children. This is simply a historic fact. homosexuality = gang rape, elders raping young boys, etc etc. This was the historic context to it. The only saying of the day was "men of are for pleasure, women are for children." This statement more or less defined most cultural views of the sexes throughout civilized Europe. You had a male escort for pleasure, and you had a wife for children. Your wife was to breed strong sons, your boyfriend to have pleasurable experiences with. Some disagreed with this view, but overwhelmingly this was acceptable in ancient Greek society. This is not a contemporary view of homosexuality, and I have no precedents to view it from the Bible. I must study the fruits produced. Simple as that.

So you admit the church now has an incredible power over its followers to get them to do whatever they want?

No. I admit that people are looking for a savior, in any religion.

Doesn’t the bible state that everything that happens is due to gods will?...

Murder is evil yes, but sometimes there is no choice. When the Jews entered Canaan, the region was run by pirates, rapists, criminals, etc etc. Egypt long in its history would have wars in the region for no other purpose that population control. God ordered the Hebrews to slaughter the lot. I have nothing against this because those people sunk so low that not even their children knew innocents. such cultures ought to be exterminated. For there is no hope for change. Their light is no more. Like I said, murder is evil. But what choice is there left for the greater evil?

Yes they may find something else, but does that make it right to produce that 'something else' when it might just happen naturally? Hate to break it to you but humans technically are robots. You’re the only one I see playing the blame game, I’m just assessing what I see.

No, you're taking a milder tone now that you have to prove what you say. Humans are not robots. They are blank tablets, having the ability to override nature and what they would otherwise do. Few species have this ability on Earth. It makes us something more.

When it comes to the fundamental basis of a religion, I can’t think of one that has changed. See you can change rules here and there but that doesn’t change the fact you refuse to change your views if proved wrong. Where as the fundamental idea of something like atheism, is open to change at anytime and does not change purely to please the angry public.

No, every religion has changed. In my opinion, though, the only religion that always tends to change back to its roots after becoming retarded is Christianity, where as many religions naturally break up into different thoughts, Christianity to me seems to break up, than regroup back towards the same direction, once they have purged the false prophets. Atheism, also, is not open to change at times. Do not group all atheists together. There are atheists whom refuse to believe that there is not an afterlife (they simply don't believe in a God). They will not change from this position. Others will not refuse world views that says we truly die, and practically reject any sort of idea that goes against it. Quite simply, the only "true" atheist is a Dolphin, perhaps. Smart enough to understand concepts, but unable to accept any sort of visible religious beliefs. Even elephants and apes have some sort of religious views based off the way they react to their dead and treat them. Hell, in my studies, I've seen crows, now known to be as smart as apes, react to the flight of an airplane during sunset as a religious event, seemingly all worshiping the great metal bird, then suddenly silencing themselves for sunset, all universally coming to a rest to watch it, and then once it sets, return to their activities. This seems very similar to the ancient idea of a chariot bringing the sun under the horizon.

Clearly not human but that makes it wrong...

Prove to me how I am wrong than, compared to what Germany stated (btw, Germany just wanted state worship, not caring about religion).

Hmm sounds a lot like western nations not long ago. Once again you’re basing your view on an perception of a misleading text. You can’t say that they are wrong or h...

No, I'm not. It says plain as day. Moses was commanded to set up sanction cities. You either view the bible in its entirety, or not. Do not lie and say my interpretation is wrong. I am reading it as it says so. Sanction cities. And no, the ancient west did not have this concept. Rome did not have places for you to be safe as they slaughtered your culture.

Please try and think of this away from the argument. Step back, leave emotion behind.

You try this. You say tomato tomatah, but you don't even look at what I say. You must be right, after all, how could anything else be? Willingness to change? Fine. Show me where new Israel is sanctified, where the New testament is warned against, and where all these things are. Here's my proof: Num 35

You seemed to have ignored some of the biggest parts of my last response

reply to post by WakeUpRiseUp


Perhaps that is because they were not that important in my eyes. Sorry I don't conform to the type of believer you want me to be. I will find what I wish to point out flawed in your statements. That's all I am here for.

reply to post by Gorman91


I will respond when you do. You cant just pick and choose what to respond to just because its in a forum enviornment where a lot of arguments come at once rather then talking in person.

reply to post by WakeUpRiseUp


I responded to where you were wrong. You can choose to ignore it. The forum reveals all for all to read. Toodles.

reply to post by Gorman91
Umm isnt that why people have arguments/conversations? We clearly dont agree, so to not answer something because you think im wrong defeats the point. I responded to everything you said, and I challenge you to properly answer everything I said.
Anyone who reads this thread will see that you have clearly avoided my responses because you cant come up with an answer or dont want to admit your wrong

reply to post by WakeUpRiseUp


I did. You claim I didn't. Your problem.