Liberty University OKs Concealed Guns on Campus

Originally posted by whaaa
I'm a NRA member and gun owner but imo allowing kids to carry is incredibly stupid; They can't even drive a car in a responsible manner.

In most States you cannot buy a pistol until you are 21. At 21 you are no longer a kid. Nobody is saying "Hey lets give 18 year olds pistols and sent them to school!".

As far as responsibility is concerned, are you really saying that everybody under 24 is irresponsible? I was a 20 year old E-5 in the Navy (promoted 3 weeks before my 21st birthday), responsible for maintaining six helicopters. I have a 23 year old nephew who is currently flying helicopters for the Navy. My friend's son is a 22 year old tank commander in the Army etc. etc.

Originally posted by JIMC5499


As far as responsibility is concerned, are you really saying that everybody under 24 is irresponsible? I was a 20 year old E-5 in the Navy (promoted 3 weeks before my 21st birthday), responsible for maintaining six helicopters. I have a 23 year old nephew who is currently flying helicopters for the Navy. My friend's son is a 22 year old tank commander in the Army etc. etc.

I'm not impressed by you or your friends role in the military. I'm not even impressed by my own service even though it was extensive.

And of course I'm not saying all young people under the age of 24 are irresponsible but look at the statistics.

en.wikipedia.org...

Why do you think young people pay the highest insurance premiums? Because they are responsible?

reply to post by whaaa


So what it basically comes down to is that a 21 year old, who can obtain a conceled carry permit, can carry every where, but is not responsible enough to carry on a college campus. Interesting.

Here's a video of a college kid who was living right off campus and had a CCW. A group of teenagers at 1:30 in the morning ask him for money, while he was having a smoke on the front stoop where he lived. When the teenagers received no money, one of them a 15 year old, pulled out a gun and started shooting, hitting the campus student in the stomach , who in turn pulled out his weapon and shot the 15 year old, stopping the 15 year old from probably killing him.

The 15 year old was charged and the campus student was not. More than likely the campus student would not have lived if he had not had a CCW and a handgun that night. Even though he didnt live on campus, this fits into my logic for this thread..

Originally posted by JIMC5499
reply to post by whaaa

 

So what it basically comes down to is that a 21 year old, who can obtain a conceled carry permit, can carry every where, but is not responsible enough to carry on a college campus. Interesting.

In many municipalities there really isn't any responsibility to getting a concealed permit. The class is short, and you aren't taught much of anything, let alone the intensive training required to learn how to properly react to these situations so that innocent people aren't hurt.

reply to post by Equidae


Where I live, we don't even have a class. That's one problem that I have with carrying a pistol. The information on what defines self-defence is a very grey area. It is pretty much dependant on the views of the local Distric Attorney. One that we had a few years ago almost came out and stated that she didn't believe in self-defence, that is what the Police are for. I really pissed her off when the Gonzales vs Castle Rock decision came out. It basically says that the police have no obligation to protect an individual, their duty is to society at large. I've always followed the "it is better to be judged by 12, than to be carried by 6" point of view. The only place around that I know of that teaches any type of class on what constitutes self-defence by an armed citizen is the local community college, where you are not allowed to carry a wapon. Strange.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
reply to post by Equidae

 

Where I live, we don't even have a class. That's one problem that I have with carrying a pistol. The information on what defines self-defence is a very grey area. It is pretty much dependant on the views of the local Distric Attorney. One that we had a few years ago almost came out and stated that she didn't believe in self-defence, that is what the Police are for. I really pissed her off when the Gonzales vs Castle Rock decision came out. It basically says that the police have no obligation to protect an individual, their duty is to society at large. I've always followed the "it is better to be judged by 12, than to be carried by 6" point of view. The only place around that I know of that teaches any type of class on what constitutes self-defence by an armed citizen is the local community college, where you are not allowed to carry a wapon. Strange.

edit on 21-11-2011 by JIMC5499 because: (no reason given)

Yeah, it reminds me of the CC instructor (who was a police officer) accidentally shooting himself in the class while demonstrating safe ways to handle a firearm

With that sort of training I'm concerned about what will happen if another Virginia Tech incident happens. When you have no training in threat assessment or how to shoot accurately in a stressful situation I can easily see a person accidentally getting shot by a well meaning person with a CCP.

reply to post by FallenWun

If his point is not to be taken literally, then it is pointLESS. His whole point is based on the perception of the shooter being that everyone else is armed. If everyone else is not actually armed, his argument falls apart around that.

This is hilarious since I have never said anything in this thread about everyone being armed, so I'd think that your counterpoint in this instance is the only thing that's pointLESS..

ETA: So therefore, your counterpoint falls apart around your false statements about what I have written in this thread....

Originally posted by Equidae
Yeah, it reminds me of the CC instructor (who was a police officer) accidentally shooting himself in the class while demonstrating safe ways to handle a firearm

With that sort of training I'm concerned about what will happen if another Virginia Tech incident happens. When you have no training in threat assessment or how to shoot accurately in a stressful situation I can easily see a person accidentally getting shot by a well meaning person with a CCP.

I live near Pittsburgh. At least once a week there is a news story about a robbery, assault or rape on or near one of the college campuses. The people committing these crimes know that the people on these campuses are unarmed and that is why they are targeted. In my opinion the deterrant factor alone is worth the potential risk.

What I can't understand is the beliefs expressed on this post that it is ok for someone with a CCP to carry everywhere else, but, as soon as they are allowed to carry on a college campus, they are going to turn into a trigger happy nut. If the ban on conceled carry is lifted from college campuses the faculty are probably the ones who will carry the most. I would have no problem if a firearms safety class was a requirement to be able to carry on campus, if it wasn't a requirement for a CCP.

Thousands of people have CCPs. One could be sitting next to you on a bus or walk past you in a mall and you wouldn't even know it. The idea that allowing conceled carry on college campuses is going to result in giving teens guns or drunken shootouts is just pure BS spread by the anti-gun nuts.

reply to post by JIMC5499

I live near Pittsburgh. At least once a week there is a news story about a robbery, assault or rape on or near one of the college campuses. The people committing these crimes know that the people on these campuses are unarmed and that is why they are targeted. In my opinion the deterrant factor alone is worth the potential risk.

Exactly! It would be interesting to see how much all of these crimes decreased if the robber or rapist knew that the students might be legally armed. I would bet that these types of crimes would diminish significantly or stop all together because the criminal would not risk being shot. They would just move on to the next place that they knew guns were not allowed.

reply to post by Equidae

Campus security is not the responsibility of the state. If it did I am sure before long we'd have to go through TSA body scanners just to enter a classroom

Equidae,
noticing that you appear new to this site, i am hoping your selection of posts to respond to was the error here.
as you directly responded to the post i authored, i am inclined to ask if you missed, ignored or simply misunderstood these lines ...

everybody is responsible for THEIR OWN security.
Not the school, not the city, not the state, not the neighbor, not even the local PD ...

as i am fully aware we are responsible for our own security, i'm totally against the TSA, but what does that have to do with Liberty University ??

and, this is an awfully wide assumption from a supposed CWP holder ...

then I'd feel better about allowing teenagers to CC.

who said anything about permitting teenagers ???
handgun permits are not offered or available to teenagers ... where do you get this idea?
(ps, not everyone who attends college is a teenager )
as stated by previous posters, i am sure much of the faculty would be the first to carry if permitted.

high school students in the 50s & 60s and in some places in the 70s drove to school daily with their rifles proudly and prominently mounted in their vehicles (loaded and unlocked by the way) ... no permits, no problems and no Columbines ... sad that we've gotten to this point so many years after the most obvious deterrent worked.