I hope OWS have now learned something

Specifically, that if you attempt to directly fight cops, you don't win.

I support decentralised urban farming and permaculture, implementation of alternative energy at an individual household level, and things like the Free Network Foundation; a decentralised, non-corporate Internet is something we really need. I also support the use of novel, and vastly more effective forms of alternative architecture, such as that taught by calearth.org.

However, here are a few things I don't support.

I don't support rioting.

I don't support direct attempts to confront police, whether armed or otherwise.

I don't support tactically inviable and ridiculous actions on the part of the naive, emotive, unintelligent, and immature, who are lured into shell games and attacking decoys and false targets (such as the police) as a means of distracting them from setting up a legitimate alternative infrastructure, which could get to the real source of the problem.

I don't support brainwashed, teenage V for Vendetta fanboys, who have no idea of what they want to accomplish, or how to accomplish it, but simply want to cause a disturbance and smash things.

reply to post by petrus4


They want to accomplish change, that is all, a change in the state of things, very simple man.

reply to post by petrus4


Dear petrus4,

Do you support corruption? Do you support corporate control of the politicians? Perhaps you support the mainstream media being owned by only five companies? Personally, I support the first amendment. We used to say, "I may not agree with you; but, I will support to death your right to speak what you do believe". We don't seem to say that much anymore.

I beg to differ lol:

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by petrus4

 

Dear petrus4,

Do you support corruption? Do you support corporate control of the politicians? Perhaps you support the mainstream media being owned by only five companies?

Accusing anyone who has a dissenting opinion, of themselves being part of the problem, is pathetic and doesn't accomplish anything other than make you look brainwashed.

Originally posted by petrus4
Specifically, that if you attempt to directly fight cops, you don't win.

I support decentralised urban farming and permaculture, implementation of alternative energy at an individual household level, and things like the Free Network Foundation; a decentralised, non-corporate Internet is something we really need. I also support the use of novel, and vastly more effective forms of alternative architecture, such as that taught by calearth.org.

However, here are a few things I don't support.

I don't support rioting.

I don't support direct attempts to confront police, whether armed or otherwise.

I don't support tactically inviable and ridiculous actions on the part of the naive, emotive, unintelligent, and immature, who are lured into shell games and attacking decoys and false targets (such as the police) as a means of distracting them from setting up a legitimate alternative infrastructure, which could get to the real source of the problem.

I don't support brainwashed, teenage V for Vendetta fanboys, who have no idea of what they want to accomplish, or how to accomplish it, but simply want to cause a disturbance and smash things.

The actions of the OWS aren't naive, emotive, or unintelligent. They feel extremely threatened by the life the system has granted them, and in essence, they are fighting an imposed nihilism.

EDIT: Ok, I'll give you emotive, but that's not a negative characteristic.

reply to post by petrus4

Accusing anyone who has a dissenting opinion, of themselves being part of the problem, is pathetic and doesn't accomplish anything other than make you look brainwashed.

Bu that is exactly what you did to them. I asked you questions, I did not accuse you of anything. You chose not to respond to the questions or address the issues. You accuse them of rioting; but, no riots have occurred. There has been no looting or setting buildings on fire? What is your definition of a riot, is it when the police start hitting people? That is not a riot, when it happens in other countries we call it repression.

Originally posted by sir_slide
reply to post by petrus4

 

They want to accomplish change, that is all, a change in the state of things, very simple man.

Indeed they do. Then again, so did Che Guevara. There is a way to bring about change and a way to incite insurrection. One I supported completely and actively. Watching it begin turning toward the other in even slight ways has found me opposing it just as actively.

reply to post by AQuestion


Here it's called cowardice

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


With all due respect... if insurrection happens... it'll be TPTB that incited it... none else.

Numbers dwindled to less than two dozen overnight on Wednesday. "I was dismayed by the number of people who stayed," said Sam DeLily, 23, from the New York borough of Queens. "I was disappointed that more people didn't realize we'd need a show of support last night more than ever."

The protesters in New York have also raised more than $500,000.

"We're going to occupy this park for a long time," said Jason Holmza, 30, of Washington State.
"Right now we've got to figure out where to turn our attention to."

LINK


How many foreclosed homes can 500k buy,say in like Detroit?



Well,I expected this. OWS still has no direction.

They are disappointed.

I dont think there is even a learning experience out of this,unless disappointment is one of them.

Originally posted by Resinveins
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

With all due respect... if insurrection happens... it'll be TPTB that incited it... none else.

I hope you're right and I hope the OWS people saying incredibly stupid things all over today were just bluffing and blowing off steam. Many of the actions they were threatening, planned in advance and in such an organized march could be seen as insurrection, indeed. Particularly when one considers that tomorrow's activity is further coordinated between OWS camps to all participate with various things throughout the day, coast to coast. Globally, actually...

Personally? I'd have more respect for OWS if they made public examples of those who would speak for the camp. Everyone talking to the media KNOWS that is how it's reported, so they are talking for the camp. The example of ejecting them for inciting violence, doing harm to the OWS (insert city) image and posing a threat to the safety of the fellow camp members would go a long way to showing OWS MEANS those words about non-violence and not simply saying what they know the public wants to hear out of them.

People might not feel quite as hostile if actions followed words. OWS is certainly not action-adverse in any other way. Just saying....

Well what I meant was... and explained badly .. TPTB brought us to this juncture... hard to lay the blame elsewhere.

I share your hopes though.

reply to post by petrus4


Here are some things that I don't support:

I don't support violations of the First Amendment.

I don't support bankers controlling our government.

I don't support bankers buying off politicians, being elected to positions of power, and crafting legislation that only goes to benefit them.

I don't support risky business practices allowed by a lack of regulations which were set up by corrupt politicians and bankers.

I don't support millions of people losing their homes and jobs due to those business practices, and instead of those who were responsible being held accountable, they escape with their fortunes untouched, and continue to rake in millions of dollars in bonuses. Not only that, but after they screwed up bigtime, they craft legislation which takes billions of dollars from the people they screwed over, which allows their corrupt organizations to continue operating.

I don't support cops beating/pepperspraying/flashbanging/tear-gassing nonviolent protesters who are trying to point this out to people and call attention to our screwed up system.

I don't support morons whose sole source of information is a mainstream media network that is controlled by one of only 5 corporations that set the agenda for our media and brainwash the masses using a variety of techniques.

I don't support a system where the rich get richer, while the poor get poorer, as has been the trend for decades.

I don't support an extremely small portion of the population controlling more wealth than millions of people.

Another authoritarian OP advocating the status quo that is destroying the country and the world. Nothing to see here except the mass thievery, arrogance and oppression by the elite 1%, the manufactured deterioration of the middle class, the murderous contempt for poor people and the glorification of uniformed goons. Move along, citizen, this does not concern you. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
Another authoritarian OP advocating the status quo that is destroying the country and the world. Nothing to see here except the mass thievery, arrogance and oppression by the elite 1%, the manufactured deterioration of the middle class, the murderous contempt for poor people and the glorification of uniformed goons. Move along, citizen, this does not concern you. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

Beautifully said my friend, this needed a double post. Nice work

You are right my friend, they are indeed wrong. I will now give you a very short reason as to why I believe that they are wrong. They are wrong because they are human. People make mistakes, even rich people who were lucky enough to get into the right school, meet the right connections, or even be born into the right family, and all of the above make mistakes.
The United States of America may be in trouble. I suppose it depends on how you look at it, but many citizens believe this. The only way to truly have a say in this country is to have something to purchase that say with. The life savings of most Americans would not be nearly enough to purchase such a say with. Before one would have an opportunity to buy their say they would have to meet the right people to help them land the right position, and these people typically do not make a habit of associating themselves with those who have no wealth or power. Therefore, in order to have any say in this country one would have to come from the right family or be extraordinarily lucky. If it is true that the country is in trouble than that would probably mean that these lucky few who have the "say" have made mistakes.

Many of OWS are young and "lost". They know that they feel like "working for the man" isn't the right thing to do but they have no idea how to change that. The "man" isn't a man. A reason why working for the man isn't the right thing to do could be because doing so in these days only means that you go do what society deems to be the right thing only to make some rich guy richer while you struggle to get by in life with the "fair" wages he gives you for making him richer. Then his associates charge you an arm and a leg and a lung for the things society has deemed necessities. Then you pay taxes, which are used to give the man money to pay his loyalist employees after they've done nothing but fail. These are called bailouts. Then if you want thing you buy them from a store which is usually owned by a corporation, only making the man richer. It truly seems like an endless pattern.

Ok so these young people need a job! Well so do a great deal of older people. One of the reason so many of the people need a job is because the lucky men with the "say" and the "man" have made many mistakes leading to job loss and less jobs throughout the country. Well, these kids need to go get a job at McDonald's! Why, because working at job that was really only intended for high school and college students to earn some extra income while making an effort to better themselves in a manner society sees as appropriate is better than standing in the streets doing nothing? Wait, nothing...

So we have a bunch of college students and recent grads out protesting. We pretend nobody knows what they are protesting because nobody has stepped up to lead this group probably from fear of being ridiculed by everyone else. These kids must not want to work or otherwise they would be out working rather than trying to change the country. Sleeping outside in the cold while risking being attacked by crazy people or the police because the police think you may be one of those crazy people is much easier than sitting in an office doing what you're told all day and then going home, it's certainly not something I would consider to be making an effort.

They are going about it the wrong way. If they want change than why don't they make a change! I believe the answer is that they don't know how but they hope that protesting will help to push some toward figuring out how. Many people who do not support OWS share some of their views on the country, but they aren't out in the cold getting assaulted by crazies and harassed by the rich and the powerful. What they are doing is sitting at home whining about those who are out there trying to support something, even if they don't know what exactly. They whine about how the OWS hav no answers, they should just go home. Well what is it that sitting at home whining about others whining about how we are all being unfairly treated by the lucky few doing to help?

The way I see it, at least they are doing SOMETHING. Something will likely be more effective than nothing. If they were to shut up and go home now, what would that prove? I truly believe that doing that would prove to the men who believe they own us all and can do whatever they please, that they can indeed do whatever they please because nobody has the will to stand up to them long enough to matter. So yes, OWS is wrong, but so are all of the rest of us because not a single damn one of us has solved the problem our country faces.