What makes a marriage valid? Court? Religion?

I'm new here. Long time lurker. I wanted to post in the relationships section, but don't have enough posts. And I didn't want to post pointless replies for the sake of being able to post in the relationship section.


Alright. So my boyfriend and I have heavily discussed marriage for a good 6 months. We desperately want to get married. (FYI some parts of this post sound teenage-ish. We are in our 30's). We keep hitting financial roadblocks and both have family out of state, etc. It is turning into something about everyone ELSE instead of US.

I am Catholic. But a more open minded Catholic so to speak. He is Lutheran, but doesn't go to church at all. We have both previously been married. After my divorce, I got my marriage annulled through the catholic church in hopes of having a big catholic wedding that God "approved" of. Well, when I met my boyfriend, that all went out the window. Not only would he have to become a Catholic, he would have to have his previous marriage annulled and I feel his marriage was very much valid. He had a wonderful marriage. Life happens. I wouldn't want to make someone change faiths or dig up their past just to appease my wants.

So! Question on here is.... If we went to the courthouse to avoid the stress and marriage expenses and everything that goes with having a wedding ceremony, would that be a valid marriage in God's eyes? It's obviously not valid in the Catholic church and I understand that. I know so many people get married in a courthouse. I don't have a problem with that at all. I guess with my religious up-bringing I have that nagging voice in my head that says a pastor/priest, etc needs to officiate the wedding for it to be valid in God's eyes.
All I really want in life is him. Of course I would love to have a big frilly wedding with all the pictures to go with it... but... I want nothing more than to just be able to call him my husband and live the rest of my life with him. And I honestly don't think I'd ever regret NOT having a big wedding. Plus, there is always renewing vows and all of that in the future if I feel like I need a ceremony of some sort.
My ONLY issue is the religious aspect of it. I've looked on google and have gotten various opinions with no real fact to back anything up. I'm hoping to get some more lovely opinions on here as well! Please just respect the fact that I'm a somewhat religious person. Nobody can ever take that from me.

What constitutes marriage?


A deep, loving, lifelong bond between two people who wish to spend the rest of their days with one another.


That's it - who cares what others consider to be a "valid" commitment. It's your life and your love


And you'll never get a clear answer about how it's seen through God's Eyes because you're still just asking biased people what they think God' opinion should be

Marriage has two aspects. Vows before God and the application of man's law.

Love your partner, make your promise before the creator and each other. Last, "give Caesar what belongs to Caesar" to satisfy the state.

Don't sweat the legalese. Laws are all crap anyways.

I am married in the eyes of the State of Michigan. I have a piece of paper that says so. I do NOT have any piece of paper that says I am married in God's eyes. In fact, we didn't even invite him to the wedding.

reply to post by aeriess


GOD stated in the bible that to have a valid marriage that the two people that want to marry must say their vows to each other and promise GOD to stay togeather till death do they part. Then they must notify all members of their community in writing that they are married. GOD did not expect you to get married in a church or have a piece of paper that states that your marriage is legal. He did not state that a member of the church must preside over the wedding. The wedding needs no witnesses. GOD is your witness and the only one that need preside over your marriage. I do not remember where in the bible it is but it is there. I have been married now for 5 years in just this fashion and GOD approves.

Originally posted by candcantiques
reply to post by aeriess

 

GOD stated in the bible that to have a valid marriage that the two people that want to marry must say their vows to each other and promise GOD to stay togeather till death do they part. Then they must notify all members of their community in writing that they are married. GOD did not expect you to get married in a church or have a piece of paper that states that your marriage is legal. He did not state that a member of the church must preside over the wedding. The wedding needs no witnesses. GOD is your witness and the only one that need preside over your marriage. I do not remember where in the bible it is but it is there. I have been married now for 5 years in just this fashion and GOD approves.

Exactly, there you go.

The government and religious institutions have no authority over this issue.
Very good post. Thanks for that.

Maybe I shouldn't be posting this, but I have a few trivial questions for you.

Are you sure that a Lutheran has to have his marriage annulled to be married in the Catholic Church? That would surprise me very much.

I understand you don't want to make anybody change faiths, but if he never goes to church, what faith would you be asking him to change from? It doesn't sound like Lutheranism is a big deal for him. Will he even think of taking Catholic instruction? If not, isn't he making you go against your faith?

How would renewing your vows work if the first set weren't valid in the eyes of the Church?

I guess with my religious up-bringing I have that nagging voice in my head that says a pastor/priest, etc needs to officiate the wedding for it to be valid in God's eyes.

Is that voice going to go away?

What kind of spiritual life will you plan? Go on a couples retreat? Do you go to Mass for Easter? Will you take him along?

I don't know, just a couple of quick thoughts.

Oh, by the way, what has your parish priest told you? It may be different than what you expect.

I have never heard of any law that states that you CAN NOT get married unless it is in a church, synagogue, temple, etc etc...

I would say the courts make a marriage valid.

I for one am not religious in any way shape or form so I will not be getting married in a religious ceremony. Still getting legally married though.

Originally posted by charles1952
Maybe I shouldn't be posting this, but I have a few trivial questions for you.

Are you sure that a Lutheran has to have his marriage annulled to be married in the Catholic Church? That would surprise me very much.

I understand you don't want to make anybody change faiths, but if he never goes to church, what faith would you be asking him to change from? It doesn't sound like Lutheranism is a big deal for him. Will he even think of taking Catholic instruction? If not, isn't he making you go against your faith?

How would renewing your vows work if the first set weren't valid in the eyes of the Church?

I guess with my religious up-bringing I have that nagging voice in my head that says a pastor/priest, etc needs to officiate the wedding for it to be valid in God's eyes.

Is that voice going to go away?

What kind of spiritual life will you plan? Go on a couples retreat? Do you go to Mass for Easter? Will you take him along?

I don't know, just a couple of quick thoughts.

Oh, by the way, what has your parish priest told you? It may be different than what you expect.

Well according to Catholic law, any previous marriage has to be annulled before you can get married again. Even if it was a Catholic marriage. From the courthouse and in-between. You could have been an athiest in your previous marriage and you would still have to annul it.
I find that ridiculous, but again, it's been part of my up-bringing. He has no problem going to church with me. We enjoy going to mass. I go almost every Sunday. So that answers your questions about him possibly making me turn away from my beliefs and the spiritual life we lead. We have similar views that not everything is black and white. We are both very scientific as well about how the world works. Like I said, I am a pretty open minded religious person. While I believe in God and Christ and enjoy the history and teachings of the church, I also feel that nobody will REALLY ever know exactly why we are here until we die. And maybe not even then.

My priest said that since his previous marriage isn't annulled we are living in a state of adultery (well, technically we already are since we aren't married!) and I wouldn't be able to take communion. And I haven't been taking communion. I have a friend in a similar situation who refused to get her marriage annulled and she and her current husband weren't allowed to take communion because of that and the fact they didn't get married IN the church. After a few years, her priest told her it was fine to take communion.
I just feel like if I am loving one person and make the verbal vow to stay with them through all the crap life brings, then I am doing things right in the eyes of God and all the logistics of the church will work itself out in its own time.

reply to post by aeriess


Dear aeriess,

I really wish you well. It sounds as those this could be put together, within the Church, with no great effort. While I would like that, I'm not in your shoes.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by aeriess
I just feel like if I am loving one person and make the verbal vow to stay with them through all the crap life brings, then I am doing things right in the eyes of God and all the logistics of the church will work itself out in its own time.

I think you've answered your own question better than any of us could.

I would take issue with any religion that said MY marriage was adulterous if his first marriage wasn't annulled... Of course, I take issue with most religions.

Edit to add: Your title asks "What makes marriage valid"? As an atheist who was legally married in a courthouse, I can tell you that what makes MY marriage valid is the commitment we made to each other, not in the courthouse, but in the woods the next day. We had our own private ceremony, just me and him. That is the day we count as our anniversary (20 years next June).

I think each person and each couple has to define their marriage and decide what makes it valid. That may not include the law at all. But each marriage is different and it's really yours to make and define.

Good luck to you!
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Originally posted by Hawking
What constitutes marriage?


A deep, loving, lifelong bond between two people who wish to spend the rest of their days with one another.


That's it - who cares what others consider to be a "valid" commitment. It's your life and your love

You said it better than I could have. All a "legal" marriage is really is a contract between you, the other party, and the State. You can have a legal and binding contract and leave the State out of the mix. This is called a Common Law Marriage. Our State no longer recognized these as legal, but when we filed at the County Clerk's office they did not say a word about it. We, the wife and I, would like to have a wedding, but if we do that, she would lose her SSI income.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Thank you for sharing your story with me and everyone on here! And for your advice.

Thanks for all the different perspectives! And they all really say one thing... it is between him and I which is what I've been thinking this whole time.

So! Question on here is.... If we went to the courthouse to avoid the stress and marriage expenses and everything that goes with having a wedding ceremony, would that be a valid marriage in God's eyes?

Do YOU feel it's valid? If you do, then God should follow suit. Do you really think one group of humans has it wrong, and another group has it absolutely right? I think what's more important is faith itself, and not the details and dogma, Is Communion any less effective if you use grape juice instead of wine? No, because the symbolism and the faith is the important part...not the details.

Originally posted by MJZoo
I am married in the eyes of the State of Michigan. I have a piece of paper that says so. I do NOT have any piece of paper that says I am married in God's eyes. In fact, we didn't even invite him to the wedding.

Love this!

So much ridiculousness because of religion.