Washington State Privatizes Liquor Sales. Win?

Originally posted by justinsweatt
Welcome to another example of the Government not engaging in free market capitalism and producing a bill that not only price fixes but then taxes the hell out of you in the process. I'm sure they give property tax breaks to Cost Co in Washington as well so you're probably losing tax revenue for the state while big box stores like Cost Co reap the profits. In my opinion that's just stupid.

As much as I am unhappy with Costco's behavior here, they do not get property tax breaks. You are wrong. The bill does not "price fix." Indeed, the opposite is true. The state monopoloy on hard liquor was, in essence, price fixing, and that has now gone away. You're wrong there, too. The state is not losing money on the deal. Its revenues will be up slightly. Wrong yet again. Making up "facts" to then criticize like this doesn't help anyone. In my opinion that's just stupid.

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
reply to post by dagobert

 

If you have never been into a state liquor store here in Washington let me just say that they are DEPRESSING. No music, very little chatter, no decor. It is obvious that the state does NOT want you to enjoy your booze.

So true. Most state stores, with the possible exception of the one in Langley on Whidbey Island, have a very communist feel to them. That's what happens when you have stuff thats state run. But I dont expect this new system to do anybody any real good.

I live in Crown Hill and so the closest liquor store is the one on 92nd and Greenwood. It's a VERY depressing store and they tend to ID very judiciously. The funny part is that they are in the same complex as a ratty little convenience store that seems to sell beer and wine to anyone who is ambulatory.

reply to post by dagobert


Wow, we live VERY close by. I should tell you though that there is a Crown Hill store and it's actually one of the best liquor stores in the city. It's not big but it's known by better bars all over Seattle as stocking good liquor. The lady who runs it is actually friendly and knowledgeable, something you generally never see at a state run anything...

Oh yeah, it's on 15th somewhere. Go check it out.

reply to post by liquidsmoke206


Yeah, I noticed you talking about the Park Pub on another thread a few months ago. Never been in there but do go to some nearby places from time to time. I'll check out the store on 15th... have been by it but never been in.

Originally posted by CB328
This bill is terrible for a few reasons. First, only allowing huge stores to sell liquor is creating a monopoly for warehouse stores at the expense of small businesses. Second, they said in the voting pamphlet that the bill adds a big "sin tax" to the liquor, so it probably isn't going to save the citizens any money. It is another scam to enrich the rich, and do nothing for all of us.

Any time the government is taken out of the equation is a win for consumers. Especially if that government entity is directly involved in the selling of a retail product. Now competition will thrive, and more people will have jobs.

/TOA

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by justinsweatt
Welcome to another example of the Government not engaging in free market capitalism and producing a bill that not only price fixes but then taxes the hell out of you in the process. I'm sure they give property tax breaks to Cost Co in Washington as well so you're probably losing tax revenue for the state while big box stores like Cost Co reap the profits. In my opinion that's just stupid.

As much as I am unhappy with Costco's behavior here, they do not get property tax breaks. You are wrong. The bill does not "price fix." Indeed, the opposite is true. The state monopoloy on hard liquor was, in essence, price fixing, and that has now gone away. You're wrong there, too. The state is not losing money on the deal. Its revenues will be up slightly. Wrong yet again. Making up "facts" to then criticize like this doesn't help anyone. In my opinion that's just stupid.

Thanks for your response. I would be very surprised if the state of Washington didn't give tax breaks to CostCo. The bill does price fix, in my opinion, if you set parameters that will only allow for companies of CostCo's size to sell in a building that the state has set as a defined space. That, in my opinion, is price fixing. Imagine the Tax Revenue and jobs created if they allowed everyone, no matter what the size of the building or space, to sell liquor. That's all I was saying. Didn't the bill also levy a huge sin tax in the deal as well?

Costco is offering job interviews to the 1000 workers that will lose their jobs because of the bill.

Anyways, maybe we won't have to cut the funding for public school transportation.

reply to post by The Old American


No thats just the thing I don't like about it. Competition WON'T thrive because this pretty much just allows big corporations to sell. There won't be any little guys, it does nothing for small business.

Originally posted by justinsweatt

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by justinsweatt
Welcome to another example of the Government not engaging in free market capitalism and producing a bill that not only price fixes but then taxes the hell out of you in the process. I'm sure they give property tax breaks to Cost Co in Washington as well so you're probably losing tax revenue for the state while big box stores like Cost Co reap the profits. In my opinion that's just stupid.

As much as I am unhappy with Costco's behavior here, they do not get property tax breaks. You are wrong. The bill does not "price fix." Indeed, the opposite is true. The state monopoloy on hard liquor was, in essence, price fixing, and that has now gone away. You're wrong there, too. The state is not losing money on the deal. Its revenues will be up slightly. Wrong yet again. Making up "facts" to then criticize like this doesn't help anyone. In my opinion that's just stupid.

Thanks for your response. I would be very surprised if the state of Washington didn't give tax breaks to CostCo. The bill does price fix, in my opinion, if you set parameters that will only allow for companies of CostCo's size to sell in a building that the state has set as a defined space. That, in my opinion, is price fixing. Imagine the Tax Revenue and jobs created if they allowed everyone, no matter what the size of the building or space, to sell liquor. That's all I was saying. Didn't the bill also levy a huge sin tax in the deal as well?

You specifically said "property tax breaks" in your original. I don't know if there are any other kinds of breaks they get, but if there are, you need to cite them specifically. Imagining they exist is not logical.

Price fixing is when the price of a commodity is fixed at a given price no matter where you go. That is exactly the case in the state liquor stores now. Every single one sells Brand X at Price Y. With the new law that will no longer be the case. The law DOES limit by size, basically to not allow convenience stores to sell hard liquor. But everything from Trader Joe's (a smallish botique grocery store chain) to Wally World will be able to sell. The cut off is 10,000 square feet, about twice your typical convenience store size. Further, there is an exemption for small stores when there are no larger ones around. I guarantee you there will be vastly different pricing in these stores. That is not price fixing.

Yes, there are extra taxes and fees, some of which is explained here, which will result in more revenue to the state than before. The fact is, though, that the $5.99 bottle of wine in the liquor store today will go away, leaving the grocery store across the street to sell the same bottle for $10.99. I don't understand how anyone can claim that is a good deal for the consumer.

The world doesnt need these kinds of drinks.

If you ask me.

reply to post by WarJohn


Thanks for your closed minded morality.

If you stop and think though, there's every indication that world does currently NEED these types of drinks in order to function morally.

What the world doesn't need is for governments and corporations to work together to screw over citizens and small businesses. That's truly immoral.

Oh well, that's the way it is now. I think it will be better regardless if people's precious wine goes up a few dollars.

Maybe if I drank or worked at a liquer store I'd be upset.

Pennsylvania still has the "State Store' system for everything except beer.

A few years ago I was on the board of officers for a club that I belong to. We had just raised the prices of our drinks, to conform with a raise "across the board" on everything that we had to purchase from our "State Store" when I stopped at an out of state club. I was suprised at the prices of their drinks and I asked how they were able to keep them so low? I was told that once a year they put all of their inventory out for bid. They used the previous year's volume as a basis and asked suppliers to bid on what they could supply it for. The competition resulted in prices about 25% less than Pennsylvania prices.

If you want to know how screwed up Pennsylvania's system is, here's an example. Pennsylvania tells my club which "State Store' it has to make it's purchases from. Last year we ran out of a popular beverage and our "assigned" store didn't have it. There was another "State Store" a few miles away that had what we needed, we were told that we were not allowed to purchase it from there. When an audit is conducted, the club has to produce reciepts for every alcohol purchase. If we had a reciept from a different "State Store" we could be fined or lose our license.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
If you want to know how screwed up Pennsylvania's system is, here's an example. Pennsylvania tells my club which "State Store' it has to make it's purchases from. Last year we ran out of a popular beverage and our "assigned" store didn't have it. There was another "State Store" a few miles away that had what we needed, we were told that we were not allowed to purchase it from there. When an audit is conducted, the club has to produce reciepts for every alcohol purchase. If we had a reciept from a different "State Store" we could be fined or lose our license.

Washington state is the exact same. Theoretically a bar can be fined and/or lose their liquor license if they sell alcohol that was purchased from a store other than their assigned one. And god forbid if you simply run out of a bottle of something and send an employee to a store to pick it up.

Is the US not like the UK then with alcohol? Over here, if you have a shop, you simply need to apply for a permit to sell alcohol - and then get vetted, etc but it isn't that difficult.

This means potentially every shop could sell alcohol, whether large corporation or small corner shop.

reply to post by dagobert

Washington state is the exact same. Theoretically a bar can be fined and/or lose their liquor license if they sell alcohol that was purchased from a store other than their assigned one. And god forbid if you simply run out of a bottle of something and send an employee to a store to pick it up.

Thats not entirely true, it's pretty common practice for bars to go all over the city to find the products they need. Stores that you're not assigned to will still sell to you and still give you your discount most of the time. However they will limit the amount of bottles you can purchase and before the vote happened there were rumors that they were about to get much more strict on this policy. What they will fine bars for is carrying bottles not authorized by the state. This means if you go to Canada or Oregon and get something that WA doesn't have so you can sell it in your bar then you're breaking the law! This has been a huge issue considering the resurgence of craft cocktail bars in the past ten or so years. The most acclaimed, well known cocktail bars in the city pretty much ALL have bottles they aren't supposed to because they better than the state understand how to please their patrons. A perfect real world example of how the market is much better at pushing the economy and serving the people then the state ever could be.

Just to be clear - this is the Law in Washington State:

Authorized Sources to Purchase Alcohol Inventory:

Where to purchase?

Nightclub: Spirits purchased from assigned liquor store; Beer/Wine from licensed distributors, or domestic Washington breweries or wineries

You can not purchase liquor at any retail premises. No liquor can come onto your premises unless it was purchased from an authorized wholesale source within the state of Washington.

Exception: Alcohol brought into the premises with a Banquet Permit, Special Occasion License.

WAC 314-16-110 and WAC 314-16-160

Source

I just got back from the liquor store.

I picked up a bottle of Root that I'm gonna play around with. The guy at the store said once those bottles are gone it won't be coming back, the state is not doing anymore special orders because of the law that was recently passed.

Looks like some things are gonna be hard to find soon, some things impossible, some things maybe never again.

I did hear that Wine World will be carrying liquor as soon as its officially legal. But I expect internet sales for certain products to skyrocket.

reply to post by liquidsmoke206


A few years ago, we would have bought what we needed from the "State Store" that had it. Now the Liquor Control Board (LCB) has increased the number of audits. I find it funny that the increase in audits started at the same time that Pennsylvania legalized gambling. Our club has a Small Games of Chance license. This license is enforced and regulated by the LCB. If you have a liquor violation, your Small Games of Chance license is suspended along with your liquor license. When your liquor license suspension is lifted, you have to re-apply for your Small Games of Chance license. Many times your application is rejected.