Massive Chemtrail Attack: Midwest

Originally posted by esteay812
reply to post by Argyll

 

Are you seriously hinting that we were not aware of the prospect of chemtrails 20 years ago?

Are you sure they weren't talked about until 15 years ago? Why would you think that?

Chemtrails were being talked about then as they are now, however the talks were less detailed and the theories not nearly as elaborate.

Chem trails were being talked about during and right after Vietnam and possibly even before them. I know they were talked about then because of the theories that the weather modification used during Vietnam could possibly also carry poisonous chemicals dispersed to the masses through chemical spraying from airplanes - and I am not talking about crop dusting.

Ever heard of Agent Orange?

As technology and chemistry progressed, the air force admitted that chemicals like nerve gas, first accidentally discovered and used by the Nazis in the form of saran, tabun, soman, VX gas and other toxins were dispersed from the air by low flying war planes. In Iraq, there was the use of air delivered gas like mustard gas against both Iran and Iran in the early 1980's. More than 100,000 Iranian troops were killed from air dispersed chemicals.

“From March 1967 until July 1972, the U.S. military's Operation Popeye cloud-seeded silver iodide to extend the monsoon season over North Vietnam, specifically the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The operation resulted in the targeted areas seeing an extension of the monsoon period an average of 30 to 45 days.” (1) We know that a large amount of agent orange were also used in the early 1970's and the chemicals had long term damaging effects including birth defects.

edit on 5-11-2011 by esteay812 because: (no reason given)

No, they were not.

Chemtrails is a recent invention, late 90s, that people like Will Thomas had a major part in. They were claiming big visible contrails, at low level, that were too low for naturally occuring high altitude contrails. After being challenged for proof of his low level trails, then he switched to high altitude trails.

There was no talk 20 years ago about persistent contrails being about some spray program. If you can find any proof, I will gladly retract it. . But I have been watching these chemtrail clowns for some time, they first had their websites around 1999.

And there was not big visible trails by the cloud seeding attempts over the Ho Chi Minh trail either. And the Agent Orange does not fit into "chemtrails", because that was more of a cropduster type herbicide operation, not some high altitude jet trails as described in the chemtrails conspiracy. You would have to include cropdusting and locust spraying in your chemtrails now, if you include the twin propeller C-123 aircraft from Vietnam with agent orange.

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reply to post by spokaneman1983


You are exactly correct Witness2000 stating that White Bluff is NOT a flight path.

No matter what kind of dis-information some of these responders use, you and I know what you saw wed. 11/2/11 was not normal contrails.

the White Bluff, Tn area is the "outer marker" for the Nashville Tn airport. So the only real air traffic they get is when the planes are forced into a holding pattern, stacking up for landing in Nashville.

This means that NO other flights can use this air space, it is held in reserve for overflow landing planes. These aircraft are not producing contrails

Originally posted by brokedown
reply to post by spokaneman1983

 

You are exactly correct Witness2000 stating that White Bluff is NOT a flight path.

No matter what kind of dis-information some of these responders use, you and I know what you saw wed. 11/2/11 was not normal contrails.

the White Bluff, Tn area is the "outer marker" for the Nashville Tn airport. So the only real air traffic they get is when the planes are forced into a holding pattern, stacking up for landing in Nashville.

This means that NO other flights can use this air space, it is held in reserve for overflow landing planes. These aircraft are not producing contrails

That is entirely incorrect, in every way. There is not a single thing that you posted that was correct in this. Do you even know how airspace works, or what an outer marker is? its obvious that you do NOT know, and are just posting wrong information, even possibly intentionally posting wrong information in order to further the chemtrail religion.

Which ILS approach is White Bluff apparently the outer marker for? Are you saying aircraft are banned from flying over it, even if above aircraft on approach? Are you saying aircraft can not overflying Nashville at high altitude?

And what about that airway from Memphis going northeast over Nashville?

reply to post by brokedown


Seventeen pages and still going. What a read. I stopped debating the internet brigades back in 2009 about this subject. I spent many hours researching, posting document after document, pic after pic, receiving in return insults.

My father, a military man along with his father also a military man opened my eyes, my father was CID, I trust him more than hired guns with aviation, or meteorological experience.

I first noticed the grids in the sky in 1997. I have lived all over the U.S, and really took notice when I would see the grids being laid over the Washington peninsula, then Charles city Iowa. I have been in Austin Texas for the last eighteen months and the whole cold air thing just doesn't cut it for me considering it was bloody hot here all summer and we still witnessed heavy plowing of the skies.

Once I got off the chemtrail "gerbil wheel" here my headaches ceased.

Originally posted by Witness2008
I have been in Austin Texas for the last eighteen months and the whole cold air thing just doesn't cut it for me considering it was bloody hot here all summer and we still witnessed heavy plowing of the skies.

Temperature on the ground has little to do with contrail formation. It's always -40 or below at some cruising altitude, usually somewhere between 30,000 and 40,000 feet/ The main variable is the humidity (again, not on the ground).

Check this site for the wind and temperature above you. It's often quite surprising.

www.usairnet.com...

Right now at 34,000 feet, you have 80 mph winds (which explains the grid formation), and -52F temperatures.

reply to post by Uncinus


Which explains the dissipating contrails that I have witnessed today.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

I believe that they view the "straight up to no where" chemtrails with satellites. To project the wind patterns and jet stream at different altitudes.

They can use the data from a test run to decide where to lay the main coverage. Just a theory

May be a theory but it makes alot of sense. Coverage is coverage and it's a big sky. There have been a few days when winds have blown all the work away. Doesn't happen often but when it does - uh oh. Now that you mention...circles would also be a good way to detect prevailing upper winds. Thx for info.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Huh?

May be a theory but it makes alot of sense.

You're talking about the the "theory" of "straight up to nowhere"?

Since those don't exist (only exception would be the trail left by a missile launch) then just how "useful a theory" is it, now??

The idea of measuring winds and discovering their direction of flow? That's being done. With weather balloons....also called radiosonde data.

weather.uwyo.edu...

But, by all means, keep it up with nonsense "theories", rather than investigating the real science and the reality of life...more enertaining that way.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

WITWATS is not a documentary - it is a bunch of people presenting their ideas as if they were factual, but without actually justifying them with anything more than junk "science" that has been proved to be junk.

The point of this is, the scientist and there smugness about the whole idea, and of what they are saying about this spraying. The old saying is, "A picture says a thousand words" but today in these times it don't seem to work that way anymore. The new saying should be, "You don't have to think for yourself anymore" or "Don't believe anything that is black and white."

Next you said,

Why bother?

In answer to that, I have to say, to educate yourself.
One thing very common on ATS is laziness to actually do the research. There should be a poll taken to see how much registered users actually take the time to investigate for themselves before writing a post.

Originally posted by luxordelphi

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

I believe that they view the "straight up to no where" chemtrails with satellites. To project the wind patterns and jet stream at different altitudes.

They can use the data from a test run to decide where to lay the main coverage. Just a theory

May be a theory but it makes alot of sense. Coverage is coverage and it's a big sky. There have been a few days when winds have blown all the work away. Doesn't happen often but when it does - uh oh. Now that you mention...circles would also be a good way to detect prevailing upper winds. Thx for info.

You think that for them to know what winds are, a plane has to go up, spray in a circle, and then they watch the circle from a satellite?

Where do you all come up with this? Why would they have to spray out stuff to be watched by satellite, when the avionics on aircraft, even a GPS, will tell them what the winds are.

What about weather balloons? Some of you make up the strangest ideas to justify the chemtrail religion. Its like you started with the conclusion that you were being sprayed, and are trying to make up evidence and reasons why.

reply to post by hawaii50th


How true:

One thing very common on ATS is laziness to actually do the research.

Which is the main reason that many ignorant threads of this sort are started, in the first place. And, when the claims and wrong assumptions are shown to be invalid, the reams and reams of science are ignored by the "chem-faithful", who continue to wallow in abject and profound ignorance, because they will not actually take the time to comprehend the facts and science and reports that are presented to them....virtually handed to them on a silver platter, through the handy convenience of their computer monitor screen.

reply to post by firepilot


I love an inquisitive mind. There are varying levels of understanding, and in this thread I see people asking questions, keeping it civil and to the point, even though they must trudge through the personal insults. I have a personal distaste for questionable information wrapped in sarcasm and insults. Sand box bullies.

Originally posted by hawaii50th


In answer to that, I have to say, to educate yourself.
One thing very common on ATS is laziness to actually do the research. There should be a poll taken to see how much registered users actually take the time to investigate for themselves before writing a post.

I have challenged over and over, to for a chemtrailer to find anything at all factually wrong in my posts. So far they have no, but they keep just name calling and making accusations. Some of us are actually pretty knowledgable and can bring information to bear, not just some silly faith belief in some nefarious spray conspiracy that only they know about, but that someone every single person in aviation does not see.

Its the chemtrailers who have not done their investigations and research. How many times do they have to be corrected about their ignorance about aviation, weather, even very basic earth science.

In the beliefs of many chemtrailers, the weather conditions at the ground, are the same at 35,000 ft, that minerals such as Aluminum and Barium are not part of nature, and that cirrus is not even a real cloud.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by firepilot

 

I love an inquisitive mind. There are varying levels of understanding, and in this thread I see people asking questions, keeping it civil and to the point, even though they must trudge through the personal insults. I have a personal distaste for questionable information wrapped in sarcasm and insults. Sand box bullies.

Yep, look at how many times the chemtrail crowd accuses anyone who knows something about aviation or weather, as being paid government agents. Thats actually against ATS rules anyways.

But thats common for people who have such religious type beliefs, to get upset when facts contradict their faith in being sprayed. They want to be coddled and agreed with, rather than have reality. They want to post their photos over and over again, and instead of it being explained, they only want it agreed with and if you tell them what it is, they get mad.

Here is an example. CHemtrailers over and over, post that same photo of the 777 interior with water barrels for weight shifting purposes, as part of its certification program. They post that photo (of course with out the full link and with the photographers name removed) as proof of chemtrails.

When you tell them exactly what it is, what is the most likely result. Will it be a "Thanks for telling us what it is" or a "You are just some paid government agent here to spread disinfo" Do you think the chemtrailers have ever said "Thank you" for clearing something up?

I mean you would think that something that takes away evidence for being sprayed, would make them feel better! But no, it makes them hostile and upset that they are not...

reply to post by firepilot

Kinda like beating a dead horse. Seems to me your puritanical expertise is being wasted here.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by firepilot

 

Kinda like beating a dead horse. Seems to me your puritanical expertise is being wasted here.

Unfortunately with the chemtrail crowd, any kind of expertise is wasted, because it runs counter to their religion.

How is expertise somehow "puritanical" anyways? The Puritans were a religious movement, and those here with faith like zeal and unfounded belief system, well its not the pilots and meterologists here. Its the chemtrailers.

What side tries to tell the other side not to post, or to stay out of threads? The chemtrailers.

If they had their way, many of them would ban aviation and put pilots in jail. Probably meterologists and geologists too for that matter.

And by the way, here is that photo I was talking about, the real 777 interior photo during testing, along with date, location, aircraft N #. Lets make sure that when the chemtrail promoters post the version of it with the photographers name cut and all all copyright info gone, that the real version gets posted, instead

www.airliners.net...

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by firepilot

 

Kinda like beating a dead horse. Seems to me your puritanical expertise is being wasted here.

Unfortunately with the chemtrail crowd, any kind of expertise is wasted, because it runs counter to their religion.

How is expertise somehow "puritanical" anyways? The Puritans were a religious movement, and those here with faith like zeal and unfounded belief system, well its not the pilots and meterologists here. Its the chemtrailers.

What side tries to tell the other side not to post, or to stay out of threads? The chemtrailers.

If they had their way, many of them would ban aviation and put pilots in jail. Probably meterologists and geologists too for that matter.

And by the way, here is that photo I was talking about, the real 777 interior photo during testing, along with date, location, aircraft N #. Lets make sure that when the chemtrail promoters post the version of it with the photographers name cut and all all copyright info gone, that the real version gets posted, instead

www.airliners.net...

edit on 5-11-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)

Then why do you continue to waste your time?

I use puritanical as an adjective to describe the rigidness in your knowledge and presentation.

I certainly have not requested that you or any others not post. It just seems to me that for the amount of complaining and disgust you exhibit towards other members in these types of threads you would just leave.

I've seen the pic.

Its not me that is rigid, its facts that are rigid.

But what are even more rigid than facts, are the chemtrailers who disregard those facts, for not fitting into the conspiracy.

I am actually not rigid, I have over and over challenged chemtrailers to tell me where I am wrong, and if I get something wrong, I will gladly acknowledge it, and even thank the person who did it. When someone does point out somewhere that i am wrong, I do thank them. Its a matter of principle for me to do so. If someone is going to take time to correct me, I should take time to acknowledge it and be thankful that i learned something new.

Compare that to the reaction from chemtrailers, who not only do not acknowledge being corrected (with very rare exceptions) but then show outright hostility over it, or at the very least, just ignore it and keep going on like it never happened.

Thats rigid.

Originally posted by firepilot
Its not me that is rigid, its facts that are rigid.

But what are even more rigid than facts, are the chemtrailers who disregard those facts, for not fitting into the conspiracy.

I am actually not rigid, I have over and over challenged chemtrailers to tell me where I am wrong, and if I get something wrong, I will gladly acknowledge it, and even thank the person who did it. When someone does point out somewhere that i am wrong, I do thank them. Its a matter of principle for me to do so. If someone is going to take time to correct me, I should take time to acknowledge it and be thankful that i learned something new.

Compare that to the reaction from chemtrailers, who not only do not acknowledge being corrected (with very rare exceptions) but then show outright hostility over it, or at the very least, just ignore it and keep going on like it never happened.

Thats rigid.

I can not speak for everyone that sees the same polluted skies as I do. And I personally acknowledge the science of what creates contrails, the varying temperatures at varying altitudes, something we all agree with. It does not however explain the chemtrails. You are attempting to use that very rigid knowledge of what creates a contrail to dispel what millions if not more people on the planet recognize as large planes spraying our skies with metal particulates.

Perhaps we could turn the table here and have you prove that all the patents, the technology that is obviously available for weather modification is not in use.

Really, why do you persist with conversations that are so obviously beneath you?