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Originally posted by DaveNorris
NEITHER EVOLUTION NOR CREATIONISM HAS BEEN PROVEN. we use the knowledge we have to select the most possible theory, at the moment evolution is the most likely theory.
Originally posted by TinkerHaus
reply to post by Barcs
Cats do not understand the facial cues of humans. Cats cannot understand when you point at something.
Cats may fetch (I had a cat that did) but not for the same reasons as dogs. Cats do not have the same social intelligence as dogs - they are not social creatures like dogs.
I'm not saying other mammals aren't intelligent, I'm saying no other animal can communicate with humans like dogs can. Again, there is research and science backing this fact up.
Originally posted by Barcs
Originally posted by TinkerHaus
reply to post by Barcs
Cats do not understand the facial cues of humans. Cats cannot understand when you point at something.
You are generalizing. My cat understands when I point, she listens to my commands, understands a good amount of words, and comes when I call her. It depends on how you teach the cat and interact with them. I don't know if she reads my facial expressions, but she can sense my emotions.
Cats may fetch (I had a cat that did) but not for the same reasons as dogs. Cats do not have the same social intelligence as dogs - they are not social creatures like dogs.
Cats are not pack animals. They do not generally socialize in groups, but as individuals they are much more likely to survive in the wilderness than dogs. Dogs are more reliant on the pack. Are you seriously trying to tell me you can read a cat or dog's mind and understand WHY it fetches? Regardless of exactly why, It's a form of playing and bonding. Cats play with you, just like dogs do. They have fun, and both usually play in different ways, although some cats do fetch.
I'm not saying other mammals aren't intelligent, I'm saying no other animal can communicate with humans like dogs can. Again, there is research and science backing this fact up.
Ok, so now it's "no other animal can communicate like dogs can". Before it was "no type of animal has the same type of intelligence". Apples and Oranges, man. No other animal can communicate like cats can. If you think my cat has any trouble at all communicating with me, then you are mistaken.
The problem with a lot of those studies on cats and dogs, is that they are not always in normal environments, and are not taught and trained in the same manner. They aren't always reliable when determining those types of things.edit on 5-11-2011 by Barcs because: (no reason given)
Take your cat for a walk in the forest, see how long he sticks around to "communicate" with you.
I'd love to see your cat identifying and retrieving items that you point at. You should record this so that scientists around the world can see it too. They would love this because it would be the ONLY case on record where a cat understands hand gestures.
I'm not going to say cats are less intelligent than dogs, just that they are not capable of the types of communication a dog and a human can share. Again, I know you want to say that your cat understands you, and I'm sure he/she wants to snuggle when you're sad and all of that stuff. That is not at all what I am talking about. Dogs have evolved to understand forms of human communication that we cannot see with any other animal. Some animals might be able to do 1 or 2 things a dog can, but no other animal shares the dog's skillset 100%.
This is an attempt to show how dogs have evolved over time to truly be "man's best friend." and how no other animal has evolved in the same way. This is because dogs and humans have formed a partnership that's lasted for the better part of the last 100k years, or more.
I'd wonder what kind of environment they are testing in. Usually they are not normal environments that are conducive to building a relationship with a cat. Kittens play with humans without training as well.
And just FYI, most of these tests are conducted on PUPPIES that have had no training. Dogs automatically react to human direction. Cats are not capable of doing the same.
Cats couldn't do 90% of what the working dog can because cats are not capable of the same type of animal/human interactions. Once again, FACT not opinion.
Teach your cat to fetch items on command. Teach your cat a vocabulary of 10 words or more. Post your results. When you can demonstrate that your cat understands your words, or can tell when you are pointing to a remote object I will believe you that cats are capable of these things. I'd be amazed to see a cat recognize ONE single word...
Henry the schnoodle just did a remarkable thing. Understanding a pointed finger may seem easy, but consider this: while humans and canines can do it naturally, no other known species in the animal kingdom can. Consider too all the mental work that goes into figuring out what a pointed finger means: paying close attention to a person, recognizing that a gesture reflects a thought, that another animal can even have a thought. Henry, as Kivell affectionately admits, may not be "the sharpest knife in the drawer," but compared to other animals, he's a true scholar.
If your cat really displays the behaviors you are claiming you should contact someone who studies animal behavior, because your cat would be the first cat in the world to understand human words.
Originally posted by piles
reply to post by piles
also i would just like to point out that mathematically it is far more likely that we are a digital being, than a being which got here from a blast... if we calculate the odds of an explosion getting our planet here, the odds of an explosion getting the sun where the sun is and the odds of the sun burning endlessly alone..
its already about 1 million times more likely that we were created, why does science not even understand the basic fact that if we were created then we are digital?
Originally posted by piles
I know there is another thread, but I felt my first thread deserved a whole new thread, as its slightly different on content.
I just want to point out that science has over looked a very simple fact and may have got everything very wrong about evolution, when saying we evolved..
If we were created, then that means we are a digital being. That also means that the universe is digital!
yet when i asked a fairly well known scienctist if its at all possible that we were created he said no! I managed to back him into a corner with this argument and he at least agreed that he could be wrong and yes given what I had said it is possible that we were created.
It is perfectly possible that we are a digital being and in order for science to prove we are here as a result of evolution it would need to prove we were not digital. Which science hasn't managed to prove, therefore not one person on this planet can prove that we evolved.
It seems science has turned to things like fossils and DNA in order to prove evolution exists, instead of turning to the very important fact that if we are not digital then we evolved. Which bassicly means that not one scientist can prove we evolved until a scientist can prove we are non-digital
While you may feel real, in the short amount of time we have had computers we are already able to create a digital being that looked like us, acted like us and thinks its real. The only thing we would struggle with is creating a digital being as intelligence as us. however would could probably create for now a digital being as intelligent as a 10yr old child. we could create dna which matched both a monkey and a parrot. we could also create digital beings that adapted to their environments.
The fact is that of todays date, 31/10/2011 after god knows how many years of being on this planet not a single person on this planet can prove we are non-digital. therefore we as a species don't yet know wheather or not we were created or evolved..
digital |ˈdijitl|
adjective
1 relating to or using signals or information represented by discrete values (digits) of a physical quantity, such as voltage or magnetic polarization, to represent arithmetic numbers or approximations to numbers from a continuum or logical expressions and variables : digital TV. Often contrasted with analog .
• (of a clock or watch) showing the time by means of displayed digits rather than hands or a pointer.
2 of or relating to a finger or fingers.
DERIVATIVES
digitally adverb
ORIGIN late 15th cent.: from Latin digitalis, from digitus ‘finger, toe.’