United States v.s. Russia?

If America was to go to war with Russia then they would lose big time. Its called "the Russian winter." Well since because of this, the war would just escalate into nuclear war or nuclear war would happen anyway.

It would have to go nuclear because Russia cant even afford to gas up all their equipment...which is now outdated and vastly inferior to the cutting edge weaponry of the USA.

Ive read numerous reports and articles on how Russia hardly even trains its Air Force these days. Many tanks are sitting rusting and not being maintained. Artillery is in poor shape. Troops in extremely low state of morale.

In a conventional war, not even a contest...the USA would win decisively and quickly. All this is moot however because Russia still has the Big One and they have plenty of them so all they have to do is push a button. They havent lost that feature.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
It would have to go nuclear because Russia cant even afford to gas up all their equipment...which is now outdated and vastly inferior to the cutting edge weaponry of the USA.

Ive read numerous reports and articles on how Russia hardly even trains its Air Force these days. Many tanks are sitting rusting and not being maintained. Artillery is in poor shape. Troops in extremely low state of morale.

In a conventional war, not even a contest...the USA would win decisively and quickly. All this is moot however because Russia still has the Big One and they have plenty of them so all they have to do is push a button. They havent lost that feature.

I have heard that before though. I have heard from many sources that Russia cant even afford to train their airforce pilots modernly (like fligh simulators.) Russia has simulators like that but they are paper which is attatched to a roller and it moves. I do not know if that is true. But if the US gets caught in a storm like that winter with the Nazis, then I would think that they would fail. I hear today that the US barrels of their weapons have to be cleaned out constantly from sand storms.

The answer to this question lies in Iraq, if the US/UK forces cannot beat the Iraqi's how do you propose to beat Russia. Russia is still a superpower and nuke arsenal aside is not as far behind as many people think. If anything the removal of the Warsaw Pact has made Russia stronger, because now their armed forces are concentrated within the Russian borders, as for their technology its equal if not infront of the US in some area's such as rocket technology, do you remember the Gary Powers incident.

Yes Russia has had finacial problems in the past but since 98 has been making plenty of money and continues to do so, much info on current capabilities is not known so its dificult to assess. Also wars are not just won by technology alone, the mindset of the people plays a great part in warfare. Historically we all know how the Russians fight in their homeland, Russia is a vast country with a large population.

America on the other hand has had the good fortune not to be invaded, so no one can assess how people would react. I know many patriots will say they would fight to the death but when you have never had to it its easy to say what you would do.

Also to sustain the logistics of land forces in either country would be a nightmare, a long campaign would be imposible, the cost alone would bankrupt either country I dont know how much Iraq is costing the US, but imagine what it would cost the US or Russia to have occupying forces. I think a US/Russia conflict could only happen in the following scenario, 3 major economic spheres of influence, Far Asia, the EU and North American Union (is that the correct title). Fighting over the worlds resources will be the cause for conflict, so we know the countries that make up these groups, so in any future conflict we will know who we will be fighting.

I may be competely wrong here but I think Russia will join the EU, it would gain a lot and lose very little, billions would be poured into the country, it would make the EU and Russia far stronger militarily, and also continue the peace we have in Europe.

Russia needs to seriously upgrade their equipment. Many people (uninformed) look at US vs Russia as strictly a numbers game and automatically think Russia would win or be close. That is not the case..not even close. Large portions of Russia's soldiers arent even equipped with night vision goggles. It would be a disaster for them to fight at night against the US. Many folks also mistakenly look at some of the military technology Russia has developed in the past decade. Some of it is pretty good...problem is most of it isnt in large scale production and what is being produced is being sold to other countries because they need the money.

Yes in the 1980's it would have been something to behold to see Russia and the US duking it out on the plains of Europe. Problem is while Russia's military is still formidable compared to the rest of the world, its pretty much stuck in the 1980's and the US is extremely...how shall i say..."current". To top it off, how much has Russia as a country been fighting in the last decade or so? Not much....the US fights all the tuime and we are battle tested and equipment is battle tested. Russia would have quite a bit of rust to shake off. And if they cant beat the Chechen's, it would want nothing to do with the US.

[edit on 18-10-2006 by princeofpeace]

Prince, I'm not an expert on these matters but to say the US weaponry has been battle tested is not of much value as Iraq had no real or efective counter meaures against the UK/US and the Afgan conflict even less so. How well would the Abrahms or Challenger MBT's stand up to the latest Russian tanks, how well would our fighters do against Russian fighters?

Well, being that Russian fighters havent fought as much or as often or in as many different situations and arent as well equipped as US soldiers, id have to give a decisive, almost unfair, advantage to the US soldier.

Also as mentioned before, much of Russia's latest military harware is not even being used by Russia. That harware is being developed for sale for money, not for use.

The latest conflict in Iraq didnt provide much of a test for US hardware, but in 1991, Baghdad was the most heavily defended city in the world and had many of the latest Russian hardware and even some older American harware. We saw how well that held up.

[edit on 18-10-2006 by princeofpeace]

Interesting thread but aside from the 'scalar' element, America will definitley be destroyed. (Along with Russia) Do we have 'scalar' technology that could be used to put down icbms and other nuke bearing missiles before they could strike us? That is debatable, lot's of 'information' out on the web concerning scalar electromagnetics and weaponry but I'm not %100 sure what to think about that right now. Basically, if we can't stop nukes from coming in from Russia we are royally screwed if we duke it out in a full, balls to the wall confrontation with Russia. Even if we 'spent' ALL of our nuclear assets against each other and managed to keep each other from being hit we would be left with a ground and air confrontation.. how would that play out? Even if we don't start out nuclear during a confrontation with Russia and say we start kicking their ass.. do you think they are going to let us win without playing the nuke card?

That aside: Patriot mentioned to watch Israel since she is God's timepiece. So true indeed and what you say we can agree on. I am well versed concerning the Gog/Magog war but don't forget about the final babylon mentioned in Revelation:

Re 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the WHORE sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Re 17:16 And the TEN HORNS which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and BURN HER WITH FIRE.

One scripture that particularly creeps me out:

Re 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the VOICE of the bridegroom and of the bride (JESUS and his CHURCH) shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the GREAT MEN OF THE EARTH;(Corporations and their 'leaders') for by thy sorceries were ALL NATIONS deceived.

The beast power and the ten horns that the final babylon helps set up turns on her and BURNS HER WITH FIRE. You have to read ALL scripture that pertains to this to fully understand where all this is going but my point is this.. Who is this final babylon? I have a pretty good Idea it's good ol' America! I pray it isn't but is sure makes sense. The more I read the Bible, the more I'm like.. Hmmm... I believe the ten horns sitting on the beast are the 10 new world order "regions" set up by the antichrist (king of babylon) that are going to exist after the 'next huge terror attack/world confrontation' when America will loose her constitution,bill of rights and sovereighty once and for all. America at this time will be a police state and will be merged with Canada and Mexico as part of the "north american union" which is even being set up as we speak right now!

This is my prediction and I don't know exactly when or how this will start exactly:

Some major event (middle east nuke exchange, next HUGE terror attack on America/probably both) will spark a 'cascade of events in the middle east that will precipitate the Gog/Magog invasion of Israel. According to the Bible, the 'invaders' of Israel will be destroyed and like Patriot said, Israel will become the most prominent nation on the earth at this point.

This of course is the time the antichrist comes onto the scene taking over and promising world peace and thus the tribulation begins. During the tribulation I believe america is not what people think she is going to be. She will be in 'police state status' under the rule of the antichrist who will put into power all the "movements" the globalists have been setting up for quite some time now. The NEW WORLD ORDER will finally have it's chance to come into power. The Bible is pretty clear that this 'peace plan' will last only about 3 1/2 years where the antichrist shows his true colors. Christians will will be rounded up and exterminated in what I believe will make the Holocaust look like a walk in the park.

Continued...



[edit on 18-10-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Kind of off topic, but, I rarely listen/believe the news, but on CNN, they were reporting how the US is not afraid and will not be hesitant to use nuclear weapons to defend japan. Now, while I'm not sure what will happen, but if this were to, I think it would be the begining of the end.

Originally posted by Shining Wizard
People, I will say it again, the key word in warfare, LOGISTICS, say if after me, L_O_G_I_S_T_I_C_S, of which Russia has little to none

What is needed for war:
Troops Advantage USA
Technology Advantage USA
FOOD** Advantage USA
OIL Advantage USA
Clothing Advantage USA (More important than you may think)
Mobility Advantage USA
AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON RUSSIAN INTERNAL POLITICS

I say USA wins in less than one year, no one would nuke, that territory is going to be valuable to the winner
Manifest Destiny would be reinstated by the USA, Land Grabbing by Red Russia, can't habitate nuked areas people
Thanks!

By god, the mans right.

We are being fought to a stalemate in iraq after 3-4 years..but russia.. pfft... we'll have them in 12 months
Out of interest though, how does an invading army who has to SHIP and FLY all its supplies from home, have an advatge over the DEFENDING country in food?


pull the other one mate!

[edit on 18-10-2006 by Agit8dChop]

The topic was if we went to war with Russia? Where does that imply that we went to war IN Russia? Where does that imply that we went to war and INVADED Russia?

[edit on 18-10-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Kinda goofed up that last post so here we go again:


Concerning Ezekiel 37-39

www.prophecynewswatch.com...


So if Magog is Russia she is in for a rude awakening. I know alot of you don't read the Bible but it is my frame and when I analyze world events and want to speculate I always compare what I think and what I read/watch with the Bible.. sometimes with frightening results. I know alot of you will gloss over this but it is worth checking out. Concerning Gog (Russia?) and what God does to her:

Eze 38:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of MAGOG, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, Son of man, let your face be turned against Gog, of the land of Magog, the ruler of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and be a prophet against him,

Eze 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am AGAINST thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: And say, This is what the Lord has said: See, I am against you, O Gog, ruler of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal:

Eze 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and PUT HOOKS INTO THY JAWS, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: And turning you round, I will put hooks in your mouth and make you come out with all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them in full war-dress, a great force with breastplate and body-cover, all of them armed with swords:

Eze 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Persia, Cush, and Put with them; all of them with body-cover and metal head-dress:

Eze 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.


Theres more but the stand out:

Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when GOG shall come AGAINST the land of ISRAEL saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY SHALL COME UP IN MY FACE.

Man, God does not mince words. Basically, it's Russia versus God. Hmm.. I wonder who will win that one?

Anyways.. I think alot of people will think Gog/Magog invasion of Israel will be Armegeddon but it will not be. Scary times ahead if you believe what the Bible says.

Any comments.. Patriot.. anyone?








[edit on 19-10-2006 by ViewFromTheStars]

Would somebody like to reply to my opening line of if the UK/US cannot win in Iraq then how is the US going to beat the Russians. Bearing in mind that Iraq2 was fought with virtually no effective opposition.

Originally posted by 10DeadInside10
If it were just Russia and the United States against each other one on one, with no strings attached, just all of our military might againt theirs, who would win in the end and why?

magicmushroom
Would somebody like to reply to my opening line of if the UK/US cannot win in Iraq then how is the US going to beat the Russians. Bearing in mind that Iraq2 was fought with virtually no effective opposition.

I thought my answer was pretty clear but apparently you don't like my premise. I'll now speak as naturally minded as I can about this. I just don't see how we could 'win' a war with Russia, especially if nukes are involved. Could I see us fighting and mutually destroying each other to the point of complete and utter exhastian with not too many survivors? Yes I could but NO ONE is going to win in such a confrontation/conflagration. Let me just say if we do engage in an all out war with Russia, we will NOT win but neither will Russia which will leave us NOT a superpower any longer. Who will be in control after such a conflict? well, if you read my prior post you will see what I feel about that.

View, I did not mean you persee but all those who think America would win such a conflict, your quite correct there would be no winners in such a conflict, there are never winners in war anyway.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Would somebody like to reply to my opening line of if the UK/US cannot win in Iraq then how is the US going to beat the Russians. Bearing in mind that Iraq2 was fought with virtually no effective opposition.

Hmmm...Russia left Afghanistan with its tail between its legs...we have done a LOT more there than Russia ever did in that country. And Iraq is not Chechnya. Russia cant even squash an extremely poor break away republic like Chechnya yet you are going to say because we havent changed the minds of the insurgents in Iraq then Russia could beat the US? Unbelievable. Flawed logic my friend...very flawed.

Even though I don't believe in the bible AT ALL. I have read it, with the Quran. And I also believe if any country in the world would be the whore of Babylon it would be the United States. Though I don't believe Revelations is anything about the future.

I don't think Russia's experience in Afghanistan and Chechnya, the US's and UK's experience in Afghanistan and Iraq, and Israel's experience in Lebanon are any way to see military strength. These militaries were meant to fight other militaries, not guerillas and insurgents who hit and run and hide with civilians.

Originally posted by princeofpeace

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Would somebody like to reply to my opening line of if the UK/US cannot win in Iraq then how is the US going to beat the Russians. Bearing in mind that Iraq2 was fought with virtually no effective opposition.

Hmmm...Russia left Afghanistan with its tail between its legs...we have done a LOT more there than Russia ever did in that country. And Iraq is not Chechnya. Russia cant even squash an extremely poor break away republic like Chechnya yet you are going to say because we havent changed the minds of the insurgents in Iraq then Russia could beat the US? Unbelievable. Flawed logic my friend...very flawed.

"flawed logic my friend...very flawed."

Is it?

You are not considering Russias' nuclear assets, when you take THOSE into account the picture gets alot uglier. Don't forget how she faired back in world war II, I don't think Germany would have taken her out even if we were not there to stop them. Also, just because Russia got her 'butt kicked' in Afghanistan does not mean she's going to be a pushover in a life or death situation. Like I said earlier, if we don't have a way to stop her nuclear assets from reaching America in an all out confontation WE CAN NOT WIN, it's not going to be possible. Why is that so hard to understand?

"flawed logic my friend...very flawed."

Is it?

You are not considering Russias' nuclear assets, when you take THOSE into account the picture gets alot uglier. Don't forget how she faired back in world war II, I don't think Germany would have taken her out even if we were not there to stop them. Also, just because Russia got her 'butt kicked' in Afghanistan does not mean she's going to be a pushover in a life or death situation. Like I said earlier, if we don't have a way to stop her nuclear assets from reaching America in an all out confontation WE CAN NOT WIN, it's not going to be possible. Why is that so hard to understand?



Umm..if youve been reading, i think the board has gone to the premise of a conventional war between the 2 because we all know nuclear is a moot point. Ok?

Also, who said we were fighting IN Russia? They may be fighting over HERE. Think the Iraqi insurgents are tough with their home made grenades? Let the Russians invade the USA. In the south they will face rednecks with shotguns and rifles. They go to the big cities, they encounter street gangs with Glocks, Tech 9's and Mak 10's. Not to mention, the homemade weapons we will have here. =)