No Corporate Influence how would it work?

And who's to say that there won't be corruption?

Can you name any country anywhere that doesn't have corporations pulling the strings behind the scenes? I think people at OWS and elsewhere are becoming awake to the fact and might be realizing that they are a little too late. We in the US, are controlled by a HUGE corporation called the Federal Reserve. France apparently has no Corporate influence but is controlled by a HUGE government!

Let's think about this for a minute. All eliminating corporate welfare will do, is increase backroom deals and illegal negotiations. France's Government is very corrupt and always finds itself in scandals. In effect making politics even more corrupt. Who will control the corporate welfare? The already corrupt government? Ha!

Corruption and politics goes hand in hand. The current system wouldn't exist today without corporate welfare because the federal reserve is a corporate entity NOT a government institution and it has more power than Washington itself. We should have a corporate welfare cap (meaning companies can only influence so much) but even then, I am not sure how that law would be enforced. YES! We already have laws banning corporate influence, and nominees are required by law to put out exactly what each company has donated to them. I don't know why people are getting so upset over this now. It's been happening since the early 1900s. Do you see the problem? How they are both as powerful as each other? Well, the financial sector may have a bit more power, but one couldn't exist without the other.

Let me repeat, the VERY rich. Who are also the ones who set up our current system, who influence government, and "rig" elections (if you will), will NOT be effected by any law or new system "the people" create. They will always have money, unless some sort of catastrophe comes and wipes out the majority of the population

This is also why we could never have a communist utopia because the very rich would set it up!!

I'm not defending corporate welfare, I am just relaying information that many people are confused about. Corporations are corrupt/government is corrupt.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77


Let me repeat, the VERY rich. Who are also the ones who set up our current system, who influence government, and "rig" elections (if you will), will NOT be effected by any law or new system "the people" create. They will always have money, unless some sort of catastrophe comes and wipes out the majority of the population

This is also why we could never have a communist utopia because the very rich would set it up!!

edit on 27-10-2011 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)

Well, you are probably right, that at least with the current way of people in the world, the rich will always have more and will always be able to rig elections and influence government. But I believe that our consciousness is changing, and that if the regular people start seeing these issues for what they are, they might start a revolution.

Look at Venezuela, for example. I am not trying to sound socialist or anything, but Hugo Chavez took power away from the oil companies in Venezuela and gave it to his people. Chavez was just a regular guy who realized that his people were getting screwed, so he helped lead a movement that took influence away from corporations (at least oil corporations, of which Venezuela housed many) and gave it to his people. I don't think it's an impossible scenario to imagine corporations having no influence. It is an unlikely scenario in a society like America that is so focused on consumerism and material goods, but it is not impossible if Americans collectively can wake up and take action.

a easier way of doing it might be to just follow the constitution. Wasn't it made for a reason? Why is there so much talk about democracy in the USA, I always thought it was a constitutional republic.
"A Constitutional Republic is a state where the officials are elected as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government's power over citizens" that sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


I'll have to sit and think about your assertions for a while, because my first reaction is confusion.
France has a HUGE government?? I can't quite understand that perspective. It doesn't feel like that to me.

I feel like the government is powerless and pushed around by the people......but then I think maybe that is the way it should be- I mean they are supposed to be servants of the people.
But my american upbringing of respect for authority always grimaces when I see how the people protest for anything -and get what they demand. How they insist on complete transperence at all times and full knowledge of every detail of politicians income- as if it is their business.
How they get politicians to get rid of that house the people feel is too fancy, that car they think is too expensive, refuse that cruise they think a civil servant shouldn't have.

So I am not sure what you mean by "huge". I guess you mean that they put limits and controls on much of the corporations- and at least publicly- enforce them. A big corporation makes a very big profit on year and they end up having to come explain themselves in front of a court! Perhaps you mean they have big influence over corporations?

So many people work for the government around me, all the time seeing themselves as the watchdogs over their employers (the functionaires go on strike the most), that from my little perspective, the government is made up of left wing long haired hippies teaching in schools and constantly on the fight against corruption of power to the point it exsaperates me on a daily basis.

Eh..... obviously I struggle back and forth with the side of my education and upbringing that respects authority and order, and all peoples right to privacy, and the later added conceptions of the peoples right to keep an eye on and force their government to stay on the track the people have chosen.

The Cook Islands
Tuvalu
Tonga
Samoa
The Federated States of Micronesia

All sovereign nations. All corporate influence free.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
No Corporate Influence how would it work?

I'll take another line.
There SHOULD be corporate influence on government, same as there should be influence from citizens.

eg.1. I have a bread shop.
The government is planning to increase (double) the taxes on bread, and they give some feeble excuse about cake shops not being able to compete.
My position is that the bread shop owners SHOULD be able to lobby, petition and otherwise influence the government and ask them to change their mind. Banning this ability is not right.

eg. 2. I own a trucking company.
The government says there is a shortage of trucks and drivers and wishes to change the law allowing foreign third world trucks and drivers to drive here at lower costs than I could achieve.
My position is that the trucking company owners SHOULD be able to lobby, petition and otherwise influence the government and ask them to change their mind. Banning this ability is not right.

The problem isnt the ability to have corporate influence, it is the unduly large DEGREE of corporate influence that the larger companies have. If you've got a small company that can only bribe a senator by $8000, then they cant compete againt big multinational that can bribe a senator by $99000.
End result - small companies (and citizens) have no effective voice.

Edit - did I say "bribe"? Sorry, I meant "assist in fundraising for an election campaign".

reply to post by alfa1


yeah but this is why OWS is failing. They think every company is evil. Where as in reality, corporations have way more influence on American citizens than politics does. I usually hear people talking more about companies than politics. The only reason America is as powerful as it is, is because of corporations.

The Europeans like to challenge us saying that there system is soo much better with all of their regulations. How long has the EU been a world power? twenty years? And is in as bad or worse condition than the US economy right now. Why do you think that is? Corrupt government took the place of corporations because the very rich set up the European Union. Europe is worse to fix than the US. There is corporate influence everywhere! CSR departments inside major companies. The Europeans think that Corporations should have social responsibilities where in reality, a company's main goal is to profit. I'm not so educated on the European Side of things, but I state again, you don't hear about the startup dot-com stories in Europe as you do with America. Businesses fuel growth and economic health not the government. This is why the Federal Reserve must go. It is a Financial institution that lobbies and controls the market alongside the government. We get rid of the Federal Reserve, we get rid of the majority of corporate influence on both the private and public sectors

There have been many instances where a corrupt individual, (who btw ruled the gov't) has the majority of the country's assets like Qaddafi in Libya. But there has never been a time where countries were afraid to trade with somebody because there businesses were doing too well. What type of anti-capitalism remark is that? I've heard this argument before

Europeans are soo brainwashed in their big government system that they see no other way towards economic health. That is not how we do it here in America. That is not how it should be done in America. Europeans have been trying to set up the same system forever, in different extreme forms. Hitlers One World Government, USSR, and now the failing EU. America has remained steady and pretty much unchanged, unlike the European Countries. I say unchanged because our states haven't succeeded from the nation, our borders haven't changed. Our entire name hasn't changed. We are successful and powerful because of our companies and businessman. You name one political motive that was not influenced by corporations? Wars, plots, laws etc...

One cannot exist without the other.