Do chistians see a prophetic "use" for Israel and the jews?

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

If they don't rebuild the Temple then Christ can never return.

Because someone told you this?
Why do you believe lies. Do you worship men above God?
You need to free yourself from this delusion so you do not go to Hell.
Pray to God to forgive you of this great evil you have fallen into.
You place upon yourself innocent blood when you take the name Israel upon yourself and you will surrly pay for it with your soul.

And where is your evidence to prove such a statement

Why are you off on an 'evidence' trip? You wouldn't recognize evidence even if it was presented to you in capital neon-letters. The only reference-frame you have is if something agrees with your insane doctrines, in which case it's 'true', or disagrees with your doctrines, in which case it's 'false'.

Don't pride yourself with the ability to think. You can only relate from your base of indoctrinated zombi'ism.

Tell your cat that, he's named Stupid for a reason right? I don't have time to talk grumpy old men who do nothing but reply with hate comments. I'm putting you in the ignore basket.

Have fun talking to your self.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker


Tell your cat that, he's named Stupid for a reason right? I don't have time to talk grumpy old men who do nothing but reply with hate comments. I'm putting you in the ignore basket.

Have fun talking to your self.

edit on 26-10-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-10-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-10-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

He has a cat named Stupid? That made me laugh when I read that. First it's the Jews and now his cat, is there nothing safe from him?

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by bogomil

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

If they don't rebuild the Temple then Christ can never return.

Because someone told you this?
Why do you believe lies. Do you worship men above God?
You need to free yourself from this delusion so you do not go to Hell.
Pray to God to forgive you of this great evil you have fallen into.
You place upon yourself innocent blood when you take the name Israel upon yourself and you will surrly pay for it with your soul.

And where is your evidence to prove such a statement

Why are you off on an 'evidence' trip? You wouldn't recognize evidence even if it was presented to you in capital neon-letters. The only reference-frame you have is if something agrees with your insane doctrines, in which case it's 'true', or disagrees with your doctrines, in which case it's 'false'.

Don't pride yourself with the ability to think. You can only relate from your base of indoctrinated zombi'ism.

Tell your cat that, he's named Stupid for a reason right? I don't have time to talk grumpy old men who do nothing but reply with hate comments. I'm putting you in the ignore basket.

Have fun talking to your self.

edit on 26-10-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-10-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-10-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

I couldn't ask for more than silence from your babblings. Can't you make it general and just shut up completely?

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker


Tell your cat that, he's named Stupid for a reason right? I don't have time to talk grumpy old men who do nothing but reply with hate comments. I'm putting you in the ignore basket.

Have fun talking to your self.

edit on 26-10-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-10-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-10-2011 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

He has a cat named Stupid? That made me laugh when I read that. First it's the Jews and now his cat, is there nothing safe from him?

I haven't mentioned the word jew one time in the course of this thread. Do you also talk with angels and stuff, or is it just posts you can't read?

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

I didn't see you back any statements up with scripture. What scripture can you point to that says they are not going to rebuild the temple? You do do know that is what the Jews are getting ready for don't you?

You are seriously messed up. I never said that the Jews were going to, or were not going to, do anything.
You are the one who made a statement, that Jesus could not return unless they rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
I said something like, "And you know that because someone told you?"
I have been hearing this sort of talk for forty years but not from reputable scholars, but from morally challenged hacks.
What you need to do is provide proof that the lack of a temple in Jerusalem is preventing the return of Jesus.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Jesus read from the Book of Isaiah. That was the same book that Philip expounded to the Ethiopian eunuch. The Book of Isaiah is exactly the same word for word as the Jewish Bible. The Book of Isaiah was also found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. So what Jesus read, what Philip taught, what the Christian reads is exactly the same as the Jewish Bible now.

So you are reading the same Torah as the Jews and Samaritans. So what is the problem with what they are reading?

Hello!
Isaiah is not in the Torah.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Jesus read from the Book of Isaiah. That was the same book that Philip expounded to the Ethiopian eunuch. The Book of Isaiah is exactly the same word for word as the Jewish Bible. The Book of Isaiah was also found among the Dead Sea Scrolls. So what Jesus read, what Philip taught, what the Christian reads is exactly the same as the Jewish Bible now.

So you are reading the same Torah as the Jews and Samaritans. So what is the problem with what they are reading?

Hello!
Isaiah is not in the Torah.

Should we go back to page 2 of this thread for what you said?

The Bible that the Jews used at that time, meaning the Torah, was identical with the one the Samaritans used. The difference was in the other books, ones the Jews used, which the Samaritans did not.

That was from you.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Actually no, you believe in a dispensational god. By your own posts in threads, you believe the rest of the world, except you, is going to hell.

No, just people who preach false religion. I have no opinion of people who just quietly practice whatever religion they like. Once you promote your version publicly, then it is open to criticism by other people and you are open to the judgmental scrutiny of God, who has a way of knowing the consequences to others who believe falsehoods that come from self appointed prophets.

Think about this though, you claim a universal god who loves all people of the world....except the Jews.

Jews who do not accept Jesus, and especially those who actively oppose Jesus, are not given a free pass based on ethnicity or race.

Your god of universality is not the same identity of the God of the Bible. And I do recall the God of the Bible saying "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated.

"It's difficult to sort out which God is speaking in the Old Testament. Jesus had a way of sorting it out which I do not have. I stick with the New Testament God when I want to be sure I am dealing with the right one.

Perhaps your god can go ask God why He hates Esau. Does your universal god also love space aliens?

Maybe you should ask God, the Father of Jesus, why you want to hate people. While you are at it, ask Jesus into your heart.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Should we go back to page 2 of this thread for what you said?
"The Bible that the Jews used at that time, meaning the Torah, was identical with the one the Samaritans used. The difference was in the other books, ones the Jews used, which the Samaritans did not."

That was from you.

So, you want me to draw a picture?

group A has Torah

group B has Torah + prophets

group A does no have prophets → group A has less knowledge than group B

The nation of Israel from the Old Testament is no more. They refused the new covenant from the Lord and so he has given it to his gentile children the christians. Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon, who was drunk from the blood of the prophets and of Jesus Christ. The new testament was his new covenant and he has divorced the old Israel and his new bride is the church, the christians. It shall be the saints/christians who inherit new jerusalem when the old one has been destroyed (in our new bodies), and the only jews to survive will be the 144k who become saved during the great tribulation.

www.allthingsfulfilled.com...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Hello!
Judah is only one of the twelve tribes of Israel.
The whole theory is down the tubes.
Time to start over.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

It shall be the saints/christians who inherit new jerusalem when the old one has been destroyed (in our new bodies), and the only jews to survive will be the 144k who become saved during the great tribulation.

The verse about the 144,000 states specifically they would be from "every tribe of the sons of Israel"... it is not the same as saying "jews".
So you cant use words like"sons of Israel" and "jews" interchangeably.

"Israelites" = A genetically connected people / descendants of Jacob...
"Jews" = Followers of judaism, a religion that consciously rejects Jesus.

In other words, The 144,000 are Israelites but that is NOT automatically synonymous with "jews"

As for the genetic "sons of Israel", they could be following any religion today....
Ask the "bani Israel" living in Afghanistan and western Pakistan... especially the ones who use clan names like Lavani, Rabbani, Afridi, Gadoni etc. (thats Levi, Reuben, Ephraim, Gad)

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

It shall be the saints/christians who inherit new jerusalem when the old one has been destroyed (in our new bodies), and the only jews to survive will be the 144k who become saved during the great tribulation.

The verse about the 144,000 states specifically they would be from "every tribe of the sons of Israel"... it is not the same as saying "jews".
So you cant use words like"sons of Israel" and "jews" interchangeably.

"Israelites" = A genetically connected people / descendants of Jacob...
"Jews" = Followers of judaism, a religion that consciously rejects Jesus.

In other words, The 144,000 are Israelites but that is NOT automatically synonymous with "jews"

As for the genetic "sons of Israel", they could be following any religion today....
Ask the "bani Israel" living in Afghanistan and western Pakistan... especially the ones who use clan names like Lavani, Rabbani, Afridi, Gadoni etc. (thats Levi, Reuben, Ephraim, Gad)

edit on 27-10-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-10-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Now that is interesting, i have heard of the lavani and the others but never associated them with their patriarchs. So i'm guessing its the tribe of judah that still consciously rejects Jesus Christ, possibly because he came as a carpenter turned teacher/rabbi instead of a conqueror like King David. I wouldn't go so far as to say that all jews rejected him, there've been quite a few from the late 1800's to now that accepted him. It's probably the die hard eastern orthodox that do not.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

I didn't see you back any statements up with scripture. What scripture can you point to that says they are not going to rebuild the temple? You do do know that is what the Jews are getting ready for don't you?

You are seriously messed up. I never said that the Jews were going to, or were not going to, do anything.
You are the one who made a statement, that Jesus could not return unless they rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
I said something like, "And you know that because someone told you?"
I have been hearing this sort of talk for forty years but not from reputable scholars, but from morally challenged hacks.
What you need to do is provide proof that the lack of a temple in Jerusalem is preventing the return of Jesus.

That's the problem, your to busy feeding your head with the opinions of scholars instead of reading and understanding the prophecy for yourself. If you don't understand the prophecy spoken of by Jesus then you have more studying to do.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— Matthew 24:15

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ[a] had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2

Everyone and there brother knows the temple has to rebuilt before the end can come. It's not that great of a mystery.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Now that is interesting, i have heard of the lavani and the others but never associated them with their patriarchs. So i'm guessing its the tribe of judah that still consciously rejects Jesus Christ, possibly because he came as a carpenter turned teacher/rabbi instead of a conqueror like King David. I wouldn't go so far as to say that all jews rejected him, there've been quite a few from the late 1800's to now that accepted him. It's probably the die hard eastern orthodox that do not.

The idea of muslim afghan clans having a connection to Israelite tribes is not new at all. This information is all over the internet.... just use google.

Here is a start....

The Rabbani Tribe is really Reuben, the Shinware Tribe is Shimon, the Lewani Tribe is Levi, The Daftani Tribe is Naphtali, and the Jaji Tribe is Gad, and the Ashuri Tribe is Asher, The Yusefsai Tribe is sons of Joseph, and the Afridi Tribe is really Ephraim. These are the names of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.

This is from what appears to be a jewish site
www.moshiach.com...

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


You wrote:

["That's the problem, your to busy feeding your head with the opinions of scholars instead of reading and understanding the prophecy for yourself."]

The various and dissenting christian prophecy-methodologies would do very well with some scholarly attention. And even more with some logic/rational attention.

reply to post by jmdewey60

You are the one who made a statement, that Jesus could not return unless they rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
I said something like, "And you know that because someone told you?"

Well, considering Jesus Himself said the "sign" that His return would be imminent would be the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel.

You can't have the antichrist sitting in the temple of God proclaiming himself as God without a temple!

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

You are the one who made a statement, that Jesus could not return unless they rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
I said something like, "And you know that because someone told you?"

Well, considering Jesus Himself said the "sign" that His return would be imminent would be the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel.

You can't have the antichrist sitting in the temple of God proclaiming himself as God without a temple!

Which of all the optional anti-christs are you referring to?

Yesterday I was declared anti-christ (possibly by a 'false' christian according to your premises), but if this false christian after all is a true christian, everybody can relax.

I have no intentions of sitting on anybody's throne. Least of all a religious throne.

reply to post by bogomil

Which of all the optional anti-christs are you referring to?

I wasn't aware there was more than one "the" antichrist. You may have been called "an" antichrist, it would be inaccurate to call you "the" antichrist.

The Bible speaks of the spirit of antichrist and "the" antichrist himself. When Christ was speaking about the signs of His immanent return He was talking about what "the" antichrist would do.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by bogomil

 

Which of all the optional anti-christs are you referring to?

I wasn't aware there was more than one "the" antichrist. You may have been called "an" antichrist, it would be inaccurate to call you "the" antichrist.

The Bible speaks of the spirit of antichrist and "the" antichrist himself. When Christ was speaking about the signs of His immanent return He was talking about what "the" antichrist would do.

That's an inter-christian quibbling on the point of who the 'true' christians are, and which (and how many) candidates for anti-christ(s) they have. Considering that most of you are 'heretics' from certain perspectives, the point is meaningless and ridiculous for a non-believer, even in the case of a non-believer taking the concept of an anti-christ seriously (which I doubt many do).