10 Things We Know To Be True

1. I exist.
2..The universe exists.
3. Physical laws are unchanging.
4. Absolute knowledge is unattainable.
5. False can never equal not false.
6. Two plus two equals four.
7. One cannot pay with good intentions.
8. Society does not exist.
9. Luck does not exist.
10. Compromise is the language of the Devil.
11. The market always discounts.
12, You can;t buck the market.

Originally posted by ShedAlert
What is your proof that we all exist? I have no clue whether my family/friends exist. Obviously I am not insane and feel very strongly towards it, although I, and anyone else cannot 100% prove anybody exists, or anything for that matter, as they are only your own subjective senses

True, but let's say my arm was swinging and my hand whacked you in the face. I'm fairly sure that we'd both agree that we think ourselves and each other exists.

Originally posted by MeesterB
I'm sure some will descend on this thread to dispute many, if not all, of your points.

You should pick a more specific word than "exist." I'm fairly confident you are a human body, but I have no proof that you, or anyone, "exists" as a consciousness. It might be true, but it can't really be proven as I can't experience your consciousness.

Why do we need to bring consciousness in as a qualifier for existence? The clump of biological matter that exists as me will still be "me" even after death, where there is no apparent consciousness.

Originally posted by steveknows
Sorry fella. Though I see what you're saying you're going to find it a wasted affort on this site. The obvious will be ignored and reality will be replaced with the rediculous.

Wow!
Your prediction was fulfilled on the very next post.

Originally posted by yourboycal2

unchanging?


Which means they are changing . lol


I would reword it to

That is a fair point. Many of the things on my list could probably benefit from a better grammatical framing of my ideas. I should probably work on that. Thanks

You can't prove your own existence nor the existence of anyone around you because all your knowledge is formed in the brain therefore you can believe you exist as you are but really you are something else...

You can trick the brain very easily therefore if #1 and #2 are false, then everything else falls...

One example is people with mental illness... They believe many things about their existence and the existence of others who simply aren't there...

You cannot trust your brain, as it can create many chimeras causing you to believe things are aren't "true" (whatever the "truth" really is)...

Perhaps our brains are sitting in some lab in a super advanced laboratory and we are not really what we think we are... (Matrix anyone?)

sorry for raining on your thread, but i thought maybe this side should be explained.

reply to post by Magnum007


Both you and I can be objectively demonstrated to exist regardless of whether you can raise solipsistic doubts about it or refuse to believe it. If you believe neither you nor I exist what do we have to talk about? In such conditions I'd be a product of your own mind, so you're talking to yourself and therefore insane.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


That's exactly my point... there's no way of knowing who or what we are talking to...

or whether we are actually doing anything at all outside our brain...

reply to post by Magnum007


There is no inside or outside of your brain.
You will only ever experience yourself experiencing experience.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


but those experiences are based on the perception that your brain has from input given by your senses...

Sense are very easily manipulated and therefore your brain can also be tricked very easily...

There is no way of proving what is real and what is not... in a way we are both right because we can't prove whether what is real is real, or if reality is created from within...

Originally posted by Magnum007
There is no way of proving what is real and what is not...

Actually, there is.

I didn't realize ATS was full of solipsists.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Actually, I can't a solipsist... I'm not even agreeing that what is inside the mind exists... it's not possible to confirm that either!

If you believe in mind control (I don't know if you do or don't) then it's not possible to confirm what we believe as being real, inside or out, really is real...

We can't confirm the self, we can't confirm the environment... So basically I can't say you're wrong, but I can't say I'm right either!

Dang, now if that's not a conundrum I don't know what is!!!

half those things we dont really know for sure...

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


15 this thread sucks

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by MeesterB
I'm sure some will descend on this thread to dispute many, if not all, of your points.

You should pick a more specific word than "exist." I'm fairly confident you are a human body, but I have no proof that you, or anyone, "exists" as a consciousness. It might be true, but it can't really be proven as I can't experience your consciousness.

Why do we need to bring consciousness in as a qualifier for existence? The clump of biological matter that exists as me will still be "me" even after death, where there is no apparent consciousness.

But what if consciousness and not matter is the ground of all being and that from from which matter springs, and if the frame of reference "after I'm dead" has no meaning in that context? If consciousness could be shown to be at cause, by say, resolving quantum paradoxes, or something like that, then the position of the atheist is moot being founded on a strictly materialist monism. .

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Magnum007
There is no way of proving what is real and what is not...

Actually, there is.

I didn't realize ATS was full of solipsists.

How could anything be "full of solipsists" (plural)?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


1. I exist. Yes

2. You exist. Yes

3. The universe exists. Yes

4. Physical laws are unchanging except in extreme circumstances or scales.
No. Gravity changes, correct? Electromagnetism changes, correct (within the timespan of thousands of years, however)? Time (if considered a physical law) changes. Newton's Laws of Motion change depending on the environment in which they are taking place in (compare sliding a bowling ball on a hockey ring to quicksand)

5. All known living species have qualities unique to its survivability.
Yes, that's why they continue to survive

6. Absolute knowledge is unattainable.
Absolute knowledge, for humans? It would be possible to make a computer big enough and powerful enough to contain all knowledge entered into it's domain

7. Omnipotence is not possible logically or physically.

8. False can never equal not false.
In physics "Super numbers", super numbers prove this one incorrect

9. What we know as morals and ethics derive from the congress amongst a social species.
Dogs are social with one another. Are you implying that they also have morals and ethics?

10. Two plus two always equals four.
As in number 8, this may not be so with super numbers

11. What we still don't know about ourselves can fill 99% of the Universe.
Implying that knowledge and thoughts have some sort of mass

12) thoughts fill 3 dimensional space
No. Thoughts would need mass to fill any dimension. Incase you aren't aware, the 3 dimensions are Height, Width, and Breadth. The bare minimum number of dimensions possible is 2.


I also made an account on this site just to combat what each of you just posted.

wow...i feel kinda stupid for this but here is my list;

1.) watermelon tastes better with salt.
2)any movie in which creatures claw there way out of someones chest are perfect for a dark and stormy night.
3)anyone that says chocolate should not be a food group is obviously not human.
4)pouring salt on a slug and watching as it shrivels up and dies is cruel and unusual.
5.)Bruce Willis would make an awesome president.
6.)pantyhose are a torture device.
7.)mascara is made from bat poop.
8.)a black bra under a white shirt is tacky.
9.)words were invented to prevent violence.
10.)anyone that says they don't have faith is lying..you have to believe in something in order not to believe.