Is it just me or is the MOON rising in a different position? Way far north!

Originally posted by TheComte
Could it be because it's turning into Winter?

Does the moon's position change as the seasons change?

Could it be the because of the anomalous eccentricity of the orbit reported by the Cornell University PhD in Planetary Science?

See my post above...

I know this perfectly reasonable explanation isn't exactly what you're looking for. But I hope it helps.

reply to post by new_here


from what I read there all it is saying that the moons orbit is still not totally understood...being that its not a perfect circular orbit and they still are not sure why.

Its not stating that there is something new about the moon or that the orbit of the moon has changed in any unpredictable way.

People have shown other people on here that when fall approaches that the moon when close to the eastern horizon will be north east...as it rises higher in the sky it will rise at a angle and become more east the higher it gets.

I dont understand why people dont want to accept that...why do you all insist that this is not normal?

reply to post by new_here


so please explain, specifically, what oddities you have noticed.

explain how you know where the moon was supposed to be....and then explain your observation of it not being where you know it should of been. how do you know or keep up with where the moon should be?

Originally posted by warpcrafter
Lots of people have been noticing this over the last couple of years, and by the number of hardcore shillbots that will come and loudly proclaim how terrible a person you are for mentioning it, there must surely be something to it. Surely, Phage will be over shortly to tell you how stupid you are. Ignore him, I'm sure lots of people on ATS do.

yes, lots of people refuse to learn about the moons orbit and how it changes over time with seasons and its position to earth.

yes, please keep telling everyone to ignore someone that might actually be able to offer then a explanation....ane also, the people that try to explain these things, are not the types that call people stupid or belittle them...most of the time they are kind and are willing to take the time to show someone how something they thought was 'wrong' ws not wrong at all...

so tell me, specifically, what exactly have people been noticing over the last couple years. I watch the sky on a nightly basis...one of my hobbies involves keeping track of astronomical positions and then observing those in the night sky. Why am I not seeing all of these oddities?

reply to post by new_here


In regards to that post. Maybe this will help clear things up for you.

What does Lorenzo Iorio's report on the Moon mean in layman's terms?

What this means is that the time variation in eccentricity (the "ovalness" of the Moon's orbit), de/dt, was measured to be 9 parts PER TRILLION (10^[-12]) per year, with a measurement error of about 30 % (ie 9 +/- 3). This is a VERY SMALL AMOUNT, 9 parts per trillion.

I'll illustrate with an example. Given that the distance between New York and Los Angeles is about 4 thousand kilometers (2500 miles), a proportion of 9 parts per trillion corresponds to a distance of 36 micrometers, or roughtly a one tenth of the width of a human hair...

For the Moon, its AVERAGE distance to Earth is 380 thousand kilometers, so we're talking about measuring variations in distance to the Earth of the order of 380E6 * 9E-12 = 3 milimeters per year. That's about 1/8 of an inch per year...

Given that the data used for the measurement was for about 38 years, this amounts to an average variation in the "ovalness" of the orbit of about 38 * 1/8 = about 5 inches over 38 years. That's 5 inches in about 220 thousand MILES, or about 14 BILLION inches, over the course of 38 years.

If you can notice that 1/8 of an inch, or the 5 inches over 38 years, then you...well...I have no words for that.

And, here is the entire report, not just the abstract that you provided.

arxiv.org...

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
ane also, the people that try to explain these things, are not the types that call people stupid or belittle them...most of the time they are kind and are willing to take the time to show someone how something they thought was 'wrong' ws not wrong at all...

I unfortunately am often one of those people, and my post on the previous page can probably be taken as so.

But, I am tired of people "noticing" something "odd" about the Moon and immediately coming here and making sensationalist claims, maybe I just have little patience.

Instead of going to Google, and searching about and learning about things like Moon phases, Lunar orbit, etc... They come here make threads like this, then tell people like Phage who actually generally knows what he is talking about he is a shill and just calling others stupid.

It gets old after awhile, and I commend people like Phage who can keep their cool and refrain from ridiculing them. If only I had that patience.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


well i thought your post in this thread was perfectly fine...did not seem rude to me and you continued with other posts trying to help others understand.

i know what you mean though, it can be easy to react on initial response mode and comment to people about why they are not investigating or willing to learn something and it really bothers me too the ones that come on here and advise people to 'not listen' and to actually 'ignore' other posters that are going to actually try to explain something to them. now that does bother me.

and i too always enjoy phages explanations because he can put it all into words better then i can but i still do try to explain what i can from my limited understandings anyways.

my point was that actually, i notice the people that believe something is wrong calling people names much more so then the people that try to explain things...i notice a very defensive reaction from alot of the posters that are totally convinced that something HAS to be wrong. not all of them are this way, but i do notice more of then being the name callers and belittlers more so then the ones trying to help them understand. to me such defensive responses shows some sort of fear that there may actually be a perfect explanation...as if they are afraid, of things being, normal.

M.O.O.N.
That spells moon!

Originally posted by Vamp333
there are a few threads like this going around at present.. i even made one a few weeks ago about my 10yo son continuously telling me that the moon is up-side-down + in the wrong place.

Moon Up-Side-Down ????

i hope someone ws able to explain things to you so you could teach your son about this...and even ways he can look for it in the future.

your son would love stellarium...you can download it and also look up something called starry night sky education...there is a widget they have that will show you where everything is in the night sky and you can observe the suns positions to the moon so you can predict when the moon will have a bottom crescent or even in the early morning hours sometimes will seem to be a top crescent..where the moon looks like a frown.

when you see the smiling crescent..then know that the sun sits below the moon-shining upward to it, making it look like to us, the moon is a u shape. when the sun sits a bit to the side of the moon, that is when the crescent looks like the backwards c to us. the moon does not follow the suns elliptical path perfectly...it varies from the suns path a few degrees...which can cause the moon to look different to us from our perspective here on erth.

I think that every several years...the moons positions to the earth causes the smiling crescent for more months then usual for a few years in a row...then it goes back to only being a couple months out of the year that we will see the smiling crescent.

It's just you, ha ha ha ha!

reply to post by angelas210


here are some images for the rising moon...notice when its first at the horizon it is more northeast...then as it comes up, it angles more eastward over time...

reply to post by LeoVirgo
I just wanted to thank you for posting your observations that nothing that unusual is going on. I do see a number of threads popping up where someone thinks something unusual is going on and I can speculate on why someone might post something like that.

I still remember reading I believe it was in Astronomy magazine that several years ago when an earthquake knocked out power in California, many people called police to report ufo's in the sky. It turned out they were stars and the people calling either never knew or lived under city lights so long that they never saw them.

I've been watching the skies often. I see the Sun rise and fall in a different place than it once was.. I keep thinking that maybe it's because of where we are in revolutionary orbit, the Sun seems like it's rising in a different spot, but really we are just gradually looking from a different angle now. That's what I'm subconsciously thinking, but maybe I am wrong.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Originally posted by Vamp333
there are a few threads like this going around at present.. i even made one a few weeks ago about my 10yo son continuously telling me that the moon is up-side-down + in the wrong place.

Moon Up-Side-Down ????

i hope someone ws able to explain things to you so you could teach your son about this...and even ways he can look for it in the future.

your son would love stellarium...you can download it and also look up something called starry night sky education...there is a widget they have that will show you where everything is in the night sky and you can observe the suns positions to the moon so you can predict when the moon will have a bottom crescent or even in the early morning hours sometimes will seem to be a top crescent..where the moon looks like a frown.

when you see the smiling crescent..then know that the sun sits below the moon-shining upward to it, making it look like to us, the moon is a u shape. when the sun sits a bit to the side of the moon, that is when the crescent looks like the backwards c to us. the moon does not follow the suns elliptical path perfectly...it varies from the suns path a few degrees...which can cause the moon to look different to us from our perspective here on erth.

I think that every several years...the moons positions to the earth causes the smiling crescent for more months then usual for a few years in a row...then it goes back to only being a couple months out of the year that we will see the smiling crescent.

yep... thanx for that.. will have a look for it... for the last few years he's been exploring the night sky using the Google-Sky app on my phone to find where things are or are suppose to be.. thx again

Originally posted by Mizzijr
I've been watching the skies often. I see the Sun rise and fall in a different place than it once was.. I keep thinking that maybe it's because of where we are in revolutionary orbit, the Sun seems like it's rising in a different spot, but really we are just gradually looking from a different angle now. That's what I'm subconsciously thinking, but maybe I am wrong.

You are not alone in this observation. People will put so much effort into trying to tell you that what you experience is ridiculous-- out of fear I guess-- instead of just saying they don't see what you see. Here is another interesting article:

An Empirical Explanation of the Anomalous Increases in the Astronomical Unit and the Lunar Eccentricity

Link

and another:

Constraints on the location of a putative distant massive body in the Solar System from recent planetary data

Link


And another: Link

Snippet from that one:

Another problem, linked to the one investigated here, which has recently received attention is the observationally determined secular variation of the Astronomical Unit [2, 3, 4, 5]. Moreover, increasing accuracy in astrometry pointing towards microarcsecond level [6], and long-term stability in clocks [7] require to consider the possibility that smaller and subtler perturbations will be soon detectable in the solar system. Also future planetary ephemerides should take into account ˙M /M. Other phenomena which may show connections with the problem treated here are the secular decrease of the semimajor axes of the LAGEOS satellites, amounting to 1.1 mm d−1, [8] and the increase of the lunar orbit’s eccentricity [9].

(emphasis mine)

In my opinion, people who 'Just Say No" and decline opportunities to explore all possibilities of the mysteries of this Universe are simply close-minded. Still, they are free to stick to what they believe. Just as you and I are free to keep searching, right?

Im no astronomer, but I have a question to someone who is. About this OP post, so wich direction is moon supposed to rise at this time of year? I live in Finland, southern part..

Originally posted by warpcrafter
Lots of people have been noticing this over the last couple of years, and by the number of hardcore shillbots that will come and loudly proclaim how terrible a person you are for mentioning it, there must surely be something to it. Surely, Phage will be over shortly to tell you how stupid you are. Ignore him, I'm sure lots of people on ATS do.

Please tell me why my automatic telescope still points exactly at the moon when I tell it to, if the moon has shifted????

reply to post by WeekendWarrior

The Moon doesn't rise in any particular direction at any particular time of year.

Tonight it will rise in the northeast. By the end of the month it will rise in the southeast.
www.timeanddate.com...

www.stellarium.org...

Have at it...