The Perspective of Israel - Defending Israel, Shalom Show

These two videos present the perspective of the nation of Israel today from their own point-of-view. We are all aware that there are two sides to every story. For me, the answer is not as easy as saying one side is totally correct and the other is totally wrong. All people on earth have their own unique view of the world. Many of you here reading this thread will have a view of the situation. There are many more issues here than simply reducing this to an easy answer.

My perspective says that Israel will never find peace if it relies on military might. The use of force to protect itself is not a faith in God. Duplicity is a word we should all know and understand. Duplicity says that trust is in God, but actions dictate that their trust is in military might. Duplicity is saying one thing and doing another. Jesus came with a message that was presented to Israel on more than one occasion. The OT and the NT is ripe with this message. The message is to trust in God only and find faith in Him alone for salvation and protection from enemies. A king is not the answer. Military might is not the answer.

The video states a quote that I have said myself many times. "If Israel would put down its weapons, no more Israel. If the Arabs would put down their weapons, peace would follow." Although this is currently true, there is another perspective that I think would be a more truthful answer for Israel.

"If Israel would put down its weapons and trust God for its leadership and protection in the name of their savior and redeemer (Yeshua), their peace and safety would be assured."

The same holds true for their brother Ishmael. Faith in God and military might is duplicity for anyone claiming faith in God alone. Where is the faith I ask? In God, Allah, or Jesus? Or, is a nation's faith in might and works?

Zachariah 4:6

So he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says the LORD Almighty.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

My perspective says that Israel will never find peace if it relies on military might. The use of force to protect itself is not a faith in God.

Do you really believe that the modern day state of Israel is some kind of a restored biblical era israel??

The modern day state of Israel relies on its military might and wealth. It does what it wants and gets away with it because it gets support from the USA, a superpower which also relies on its own military might and wealth.

"If Israel would put down its weapons and trust God for its leadership and protection in the name of their savior and redeemer (Yeshua), their peace and safety would be assured."

Nice.
But I'd like to hear from an Israeli jew that Yashua is their redeemer.
Jews rejected their redeemer 2000 years ago.... and still do so to this day. (They also insult Jesus and call him a false prophet)

I find it absurd the way christians support this jewish state that has zero respect for the messiah... while viewing as enemies the muslim arabs who actually accept Jesus as the messiah and await his return, like you christians.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

"If Israel would put down its weapons, no more Israel. If the Arabs would put down their weapons, peace would follow."

I'd call it karma, but then many Arabs have been without weapons for decades without peace..
Never stopped Israel from bombing them..

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

I find it absurd the way christians support this jewish state that has zero respect for the messiah... while viewing as enemies the muslim arabs who actually accept Jesus as the messiah and await his return, like you christians.

The Muslims accept Him as a messenger. Although they do honor God on the outside, they dishonor him on the inside where love is to rule their kingdom. Luke 10 outlines loving your neighbor--even enemies. The Qur'an and the Message of the Messenger You are correct is saying that Israel misses the message as well. The Bible records a much different outcome in the end. They will see the message of Christ eventually and love instead of hate. It will happen.

Romans 11

7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”[c]

9 And David says:

“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”[d]

Ingrafted Branches

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

"If Israel would put down its weapons, no more Israel. If the Arabs would put down their weapons, peace would follow."

I'd call it karma, but then many Arabs have been without weapons for decades without peace..
Never stopped Israel from bombing them..

If hatred is the rule of their kingdom (either nation), then war will be the outcome. Hate cannot dispel hate. Only love dispels hate. Jesus came with this message. Mathematics of Forgiveness

reply to post by SuperiorEd

The Muslims accept Him as a messenger.
Although they do honor God on the outside, they dishonor him on the inside where love is to rule their kingdom

Wrong!!
The muslims accept him as THE messiah... not just as a messenger (whether you like it or not), but as THE messiah.

The Muslims definition of God is identical to the jews definition of God... the only difference being, Jews see Jesus as a false prophet..... while Christians and Muslims see him as the promised Messiah.
So, who do you defend?


Since you love the jews so much, why dont you try this little experiment....
Walk up to the friendliest group of jews that you find.
Then ask them if they accept Jesus as THE messiah.

Then, walk up to a gang of the meanest looking muslims and ask them the same question.

The answers will surprise you.

The fact remains that muslims cannot be who they claim to be, unless they believe in Jesus' virgin birth, prophethood and his status as THE Messiah.

The jews on the other hand...

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

The Muslims accept Him as a messenger.
Although they do honor God on the outside, they dishonor him on the inside where love is to rule their kingdom

Wrong!!
The muslims accept him as THE messiah... not just as a messenger (whether you like it or not), but as THE messiah.

The Muslims definition of God is identical to the jews definition of God... the only difference being, Jews see Jesus as a false prophet..... while Christians and Muslims see him as the promised Messiah.
So, who do you defend?


Since you love the jews so much, why dont you try this little experiment....
Walk up to the friendliest group of jews that you find.
Then ask them if they accept Jesus as THE messiah.

Then, walk up to a gang of the meanest looking muslims and ask them the same question.

The answers will surprise you.

The fact remains that muslims cannot be who they claim to be, unless they believe in Jesus' virgin birth, prophethood and his status as THE Messiah.

The jews on the other hand...

edit on 9-10-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

True, they say he is the Messiah. True that the orthodox Jews do not see Christ yet. However, Christians are the only ones professing the truth of Jesus. Did Jesus have a message as the messenger? What was that message?

The first institution ordained by God was the family. The second was the church. The third was salvation. Salvation comes from reconciliation of the family to God through faith. Issac and Ishmael must be reconciled through Jesus and His name. Taking on the name of God means to take on His character. His character is love, as evidenced by nature and His word to man. He stands for Truth, Justice, Marcy and Forgiveness by Grace. Grace is unmerited favor toward those who do not deserve His favor. Find the nation standing on this side of God and you have the truth. Your comments stand on the side of those who are told to lie in their religion to their enemies. This is not truth. Your comments stand on the side of those who seek the destruction of Israel and Christians. This is not justice. Does the side you stand on seek mercy or grace toward Christians or Israel? Righteousness is the first place God stands by the truth of the others mentioned. Righteousness demands no less than this to be true. Answer truthfully and you have the correct perspective. The Bible reveals this in may places. Here is one.

2 Corinthians 5

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Here are the lyrics to People Need the Lord - This is the message of Jesus to be followed to find love and peace. You won't find this being proclaimed in the Muslim faith:

Everyday they pass me by, I can see it in their eyes.
Empty people filled with care, headed who knows where.
On they go through private pain, living fear to fear,
Laughter hides their silent cries, only Jesus hears.

People need the Lord, people need the Lord.
At the end of broken dreams, He's the open door.
People need the Lord, people need the Lord.
When will we realize...people need the Lord?

We are called to take His light to a world where wrong seems right.
What would be too great a cost for sharing life with one who's lost.
Thorough His love our hearts can feel all the grief they bear.
They must hear the words of life only we can share.

That we must give our lives for
People need the Lord, people need the Lord.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

"If Israel would put down its weapons, no more Israel. If the Arabs would put down their weapons, peace would follow."

I'd call it karma, but then many Arabs have been without weapons for decades without peace..
Never stopped Israel from bombing them..

Never stopped them from bombing israel either or attacking convoys or anything else.......

Also it never kept them from attacking each other.............Its cute that you can blame Israel for everything , when that area of the world has been fighting everyone OTHER than Israel for a millenium

Some ideas to consider.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

Your comments stand on the side of those who are told to lie in their religion to their enemies.

Thats rich...
Please read up on the life of Jacob one more time.
He is known to have lied" as well.

This is not truth. Your comments stand on the side of those who seek the destruction of Israel and Christians. This is not justice. Does the side you stand on seek mercy or grace toward Christians or Israel?

Actually, the side "I stand on" does not view Israel as a religion.... but rather a bloodline of Abraham....humans that they see as their "own"... whether they are from the tribes of Isaac or Ishmael.

Its not like muslims hate those who the jews see as their prophets. Ever wondered why muslims are named after so-called "jewish" prophets? Ibrahim? Ishaaq? Yakub? Suleiman? Dawood? Yunus? Ayub???

In case you did not know... thats Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Solomon, David, Jonah and Job respectively.

However, the jews who you love so much see Jesus as a false prophet, at the very least. How can you as a christian who loves Jesus, support the ones who mock the messiah, while standing against the ones who revere the messiah.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


In my opinion Israel are the people, not the plot of dirt they stand on, or the government that runs the show. Just like how america is the people and not its government. I get the whole thing where they wanted lands of their own and wanted to return to the lands they inhabited 2000 years ago. Unfortunately that isn't the way the world works or the britonian decendants that live in wales would get all the lands they had before the anglo saxons invaded England, and the algo-saxon decendants would return to the lands they came from which they were norse (norway/netherlands), the native americans would get the U.S. back, the spanish decendants and portugeuese decendants from spain and portugal would go back to their ancestral homelands, and brazil would return to the south american indian tribes. etc. Theres just too much done that cant be undone.

They could just fix this whole mess by creating one nation and giving the palestinians equal rights with representation within the government of Israel and the right to elect a palestinian president in the Israeli government. Unfortunately religion comes into play too much for this to happen. The best way to solve a division of people is give them all equal rights with equal representation which would work towards unifiying them. The problem is that netanyahu wants it all his way or no way, and abbass wants it all his way or no way.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

However, the jews who you love so much see Jesus as a false prophet, at the very least. How can you as a christian who loves Jesus, support the ones who mock the messiah, while standing against the ones who revere the messiah.

It's not that I love the Jewish people any more or less than anyone else in the human race. I stand for Israel and I also stand for the people of the surrounding nations that seek peace. We are to love everyone. Even our enemies. Clearly, we should stand against any radical part of either nation that seeks to steal, kill or destroy.

The matter is not one of favoring one nation over another. We are to follow what God commanded. Israel has the right to the land. We are to stay on the side of Israel because of what they stand for and not against. Many people stand with other factions of humanity against groups and individuals. I stand for truth and justice. God is the judge of men. We are the witnesses. Palestine is already in Jordan. Research history.

"Palestine and Jordan are one..." said King Abdullah in 1948.

"The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan," said King Hussein of Jordan, in 1981.

They know this, but the Palestinians are being used a a proxy against Israel. We can blame the Arabs here and not Israel for any bloodshed or loss of property.

If you believe that Israel stands as one who steals, kills and destroys, then you have bought a lie. They are not a nation of killers. They have defended their homeland and people. This is all. The Palestinians and Arabs have sought Israel's utter destruction openly. No peace comes from prejudice and hatred. Peace comes from loving-kindness to enemies, just as Jesus states. When Israel or the Palestinians find this as true, then peace will follow. Until then, they will continue to tear each other apart.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

the jews who you love so much see Jesus as a false prophet, at the very least. How can you as a christian who loves Jesus, support the ones who mock the messiah, while standing against the ones who revere the messiah.

The jews that do not believe in Jesus are misguided. There are actually a number of jews that believe in Jesus Christ. Judeo-christianity is on the rise again, as it was in the first century A.D. Jesus told us to love our enemies as we love our friends, this teaching extends to those who decry the Lord. They may speak against Jesus and be forgiven, but if the Holy Spirit calls to them and they mock Him they will not be forgiven in this life or the next.

As for the OP, according to the laws of man Israel has the right to defend their nation as does any other country. I would prefer the path of peace over bloodshed, but until both sides can come to an agreement that is mutually beneficial and not just a one sided relationship this will not happen.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
The video states a quote that I have said myself many times. "If Israel would put down its weapons, no more Israel. If the Arabs would put down their weapons, peace would follow." Although this is currently true, there is another perspective that I think would be a more truthful answer for Israel.

And by this statement, you pretty much prove that you have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about the situation or its history.

Israel attacks peaceful organizations far mor effectively than it does militant ones. The IDF and israeli educational Services pulled absolutely no punches to utterly destroy the Seeds of Peace organization, which had as its goal putting Israeli and Palestinian youth together in a summer camp environment, and having both sides engage in discourse and communication. it was smashed, politically and economically.

On the other hand, Hamas occasionally gets some bullets fired its way, but when it offers to talk peace, Israel refuses; when it works to end attacks on Israel, Israel responds by firing missiles into Gaza.

It's my belief that the people if Israel want peace, as do the people of Palestine. The trouble is, they're both living under military occupation; the Israeli government is almost pure military; what isn't an office of the military is still filled with military and ex-military men and women, and is under pressure from those offices under the IDF. And of course, the major interest of any military is the perpetuation of conflict, to keep the military in power and in money.

And when we have ignorant American Christians supporting this system because htye believe they need to so Jesus can come back (or more often the case, because they enjoy the thought of dead Muslims) it does nothing to bring peace. You want peace in the near east? Pressure your own govenrment to cease its unconditional support for the military government of Israel.

We can't expect either side to unconditionally disarm; and there's no reason they SHOULD, anyway. But we can work to discourage support for a system that itself perpetuates the USE of those arms.