Why should I let you through the checkpoint?

Originally posted by cbianchi513
reply to post by nenothtu

 

You saw? It's not motion, so that's good, but it's there. I don't know who got that photo, considering there were only 9 or so guys that got it... I thought.

Who produced the video? There would be the place to answer that question!

Ok, so yeah... People ARE training. Sometimes at half speed and with semi autos, but consider this: Some folks train the ENTIRE Ranger handbook, even if they were one of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children... Because one of their mentors was an INSTRUCTOR at Benning, so d*** if we don't ALL listen to him.

There's another Ranger training aid you might want to check into. It's hard to find now, but has the Ranger Handbook beat hollow for training in tactical maneuvers. The handbook is mostly 200 to 600 pages of checklists (depending on which year's edition you get - they grow over time). It's called "ST 21-76 Dismounted Patrolling) I got mine from Benning in '82, and have never seen another one out here in the real world. They're that rare. It covers all manner of Ranger combat patrols from ambushes to raids, and goes into more detail on the individual actions and sequences than the checklists in the Handbook.

Back then the Rangers were in transition from smaller squad-sized units (i.e. the Vietnam type of LRRP units) to what they are today, the bigger company-sized units deployed as a block. There's something there for everyone, but the SMALL unit tactics are going to be more in vogue in a SHTF scenario, especially in the beginning before "armies" are organized.

I've misplaced mine now, probably in one of my moves. It's probably sitting in a box in a warehouse somewhere, right along with my copy of Ion Idreiss' "The Scout" from the Australian guerrilla series. Didn't know either was missing until I went to dig them out to scan 'em and make PDFs, and there they weren't. I've been looking for PDFs of either one ever since, and have so far come up dry. I highly reccommend both for training. I was trying to make the PDFs for my son, who desperately needs them. Might be able to get ST21-76 from TRADOC, but I have no idea where to get another copy of "The Scout".

Consider if the targets were meat suits working a field, or coming out to inspect that proverbial van. This is a STANDARD Raid/Ambush doctrine. I only included the "mad minute" for effect, but this is civilian- a group of friends getting together to stay frosty.

That's why the security elements need military training - to counter these ambushing miscreants. Civilians won't think about anything but helping the folks who may have survived in the van, and go be-boppin' straight out to doom. - that's what the raiders in the video are counting on. It's a basic human thing to want to help. and nearly every criminal type I've ever run into takes advantages of people's humanity to do their deeds.

The military training steps in and says "I ain't walkin' into that KZ until the bushwhackers are all dead and corpsified., and they're gonna be, post haste, before they can get away."

Semper Fi folks...

Psst! Don't you mean "Follow Me!"?

Originally posted by cbianchi513

It NEEDS to be understood that a man needs to work his turn in the field and on watch or patrol...

Exactly so - because "specialization is for insects".

Another bit of Heinlein to remember is from "Tunnel in the Sky" - it's better to survive like a rabbit than go out like a lion!

Strength in Numbers?The more people you have the better the defense? Plus , I'm nineteen year old man so repopulation shouldn't be a problem for me?

Basically I'm a human shield is what I'm saying.

Originally posted by Thestargateisreal
reply to post by gamesmaster63

 

Anyone that lets a natural disaster rattle them, is a really weak person, imo. I've been in a few of them, and the only people that ever get killed are the ones that are not thinking. The exceptions being earthquakes and tornadoes, because those come very quickly without warning.

I'm starting to wonder how old you are, you're ego and judgement are drowning out your sense. I wonder how rattled you would have been were you in Japan a little while ago?

reply to post by LadySkadi


That was the first serious thing I've said in this thread. I'm not egotistical, I'm just not easily scared.

To answer your question, I'd be a lot less scared than the majority of people. I'd probably be helping someone else that needed it. I'm a Taurus btw.

Originally posted by nixie_nox

there are plenty of surprises. No one can predict how a person will function in a shtf or disaster scenario, until you are in one.
There have been soldiers and doctors that have curled up in fetal positions, and there have been waiters who ran in and saved people from a burning building.

Now THAT is a fact! True story - without giving up too much detail:

Once upon a time in the boonies, there was a convoy rolling along on what passed for a "highway" in that area. Supply trucks, APCs, and a few guys dismounted to guard the stuff from the ground. So they go rolling right into an ambush. Bullets flying, 'splodey stuff going BOOM and throwing mud specks all over their cute starched uniforms, the whole nine yards.

So there's this new guy, a FNG fresh in to the outfit. He's had all his field training, but this is the first time he's come under real fire, and got the feeling that there are really people out there who will really try to kill you dead. What does he do with all that training? Stands right there in the middle of the kill zone at attention, weapon at port arms like he's on a parade field or something, bullets flying every whichaway, all froze up. Another guy sees that, one who's run into these sorts of dissatisfied customers before. thisd second guy, on his way to dive under a truck and get away from all those angry lead bees, just clotheslines the New Guy on his way past him, as if it were an afterthought.

Long story short, when the dust settled, the smoke cleared, and the dispute was satisfactorily resolved, going through the kill zone and picking up the pieces they run across the New Guy. He's flat on his back in the mud, still at attention, weapon still at port arms, staring straight ahead, which in that orientation was straight up into the pretty blue sky. He was still alive, not a scratch on him, and still ALL froze up.

His training "took", but it was the WRONG training that came to the fore in that confused instant.

he got a crash course of "retraining", but after that first time under fire, he was just a tad more chilly for ever after, and as far as I know never froze up like that again.

Maybe you had to have been there, I dunno. It was funny as hell at the time, since he survived, but it could have turned out tragic. The moral of the story: take your first risks when being risky is relatively safe. NEVER freeze up. Do SOMETHING, even if it's wrong.

Or, in your words:

The only way to truley know the stuff your made of is to have faced it once before and know how you are going to act.

reply to post by Thestargateisreal

Presuming you weren't in the midst of the churning sea...

The point is, who are you to judge others as weak?

Originally posted by graceunderpressure
It's TSHTF scenario. The Internet and electrical grid are down. Paper money is useless. You don't even know for sure what caused it -- maybe WWIII; maybe a CME? All communications went down before you could get any answers. Many people are dead, and many survivors have fled to rural areas in search of clean water, food, and shelter.

You're traveling on foot with only what you can carry on your back, when you come across a gated, fenced community protected by armed civilian guards. The tantalizing sound of running water and the aroma of food cooking waft from within the walls.

The gatekeeper says, "We're a small, self-governed, self-sustained community, and we must be selective about accepting new members. You can stay here if you can contribute to our community in some meaningful way. Tell me one to three useful abilities, skills, or attributes that you can offer us."

What is your answer?

(I thought the answers might be interesting, given the diversity of the individuals here on ATS. Remember, as you answer, that survival skills like DaddyBare's are at a high premium, but many less-obvious skills such as midwiving, chemistry, building, or sewing could also get you through the gate.)

edit on 10/7.2011 by graceunderpressure because: Wrong forum

edit on 10/7.2011 by graceunderpressure because: (no reason given)

*smells the food cooking & water running as I chuckle and pull out a canteen of fresh water and bites off a piece of beef jerky as I smile at the guards*..

reply to post by LadySkadi


If I were in the midst of a churning sea, I would swim until I could not swim anymore, and then die. Very simple.

I didn't judge anyone. I just said that natural disaster is not the end all test of what you're made of. When another person with a weapon tries to take your life, how you react is the end all test to "what you're made of". There's nothing that scares a person more than another person out to end their existence.

The soldiers in this thread are very well equipped to handle any scenario. Someone tried to say that they were not. That's not true.

reply to post by Thestargateisreal

I didn't judge anyone. I just said that natural disaster is not the end all test of what you're made of.

no actually what you said is this...

Anyone that lets a natural disaster rattle them, is a really weak person, imo.

Which did come off as very judgmental.. and rather arrogant..

reply to post by gabby2011


I'm sorry. Can I do something to make it up to you?

Originally posted by Thestargateisreal
reply to post by LadySkadi

 

I didn't judge anyone.

You said this, no?

Anyone that lets a natural disaster rattle them, is a really weak person, imo.

reply to post by LadySkadi


I'm sorry. Can I do something to make it up to you?

Originally posted by Thestargateisreal
reply to post by LadySkadi

 

I'm sorry. Can I do something to make it up to you?

Nope. You've said enough.

Originally posted by Thestargateisreal
reply to post by gabby2011

 

I'm sorry. Can I do something to make it up to you?

nah... but I'll help you through the rough times, if I see you crying like a baby...

Look who's talking.

Originally posted by lostsock
reply to post by nenothtu

 

You guessed correctly! I'm in East Tennessee right on the edge of the Cherokee National forest and I swear just about everything is edible here

Oh and grumpas make awesome bait!!!!!

They're not really bad eating, either, if you can get past the slime to get 'em peeled. They don't "taste like chicken", though. Chickens taste like chicken. Grampus is more like turtle. I was raised just a little north of where you are - just a ways north of Bristol, on the back side of Clinch. Way east of there now, in the flat lands among the strange folks.

I would be happy to cook and forage for ya'all !!! There isnt much in the woods that scares me any more unless its a 4 inch centipede crawling up the inside of my pant leg. Or anything for that matter crawling up my pant leg..

If the big camp won't take you (they've got a lot of cooks over there!) you can cook in my little camp, and I promise not to crawl up the inside of your pant leg! One of those centipedes stung me one time. Felt a lot like a wasp, and made me very unhappy. The centipede didn't make it, the poor little thing!

So thanks for sharing your camp with me so I can take the load off my feet. This cast iron skillet has been getting heavy

Cast iron skillet? That's hi tech right there! A Dutch Oven for biscuits is a big plus - I'd probably kill for a good biscuit!

Originally posted by Thestargateisreal
reply to post by gamesmaster63

 

Anyone that lets a natural disaster rattle them, is a really weak person, imo. I've been in a few of them, and the only people that ever get killed are the ones that are not thinking. The exceptions being earthquakes and tornadoes, because those come very quickly without warning.

It's not so much the disaster itself as it is the aftermath that tests mettle. Surviving a whirlwind is the luck of the draw. Scrounging and eating AFTERWARDS is where the real testing and learning comes in, and where one finds what they're made of. THAT is where conscious decisions are made.

The whirlwind itself usually causes you to run on auto-pilot.

Originally posted by Thestargateisreal

The soldiers in this thread are very well equipped to handle any scenario. Someone tried to say that they were not. That's not true.

I don't think he was saying that the soldiers aren't very well equipped, I think he was pointing out that there are other "stress tests" that will reveal what you're made of besides just combat. Sure enough, trying to dig a trench with the buttons on your shirt because some jackass is energetically trying to end you is stressful, but it's not the ONLY stressor available.

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by Thestargateisreal
reply to post by gabby2011

 

I'm sorry. Can I do something to make it up to you?

nah... but I'll help you through the rough times, if I see you crying like a baby...

That's all fine and dandy, but who's gonna help ME if they see me cryin' like a baby?

I'll bet you'll be too busy laughing at me, that's what I'LL bet!


Ain't nobody got a monopoly on explosive decompression...