Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

So Gabby you're open to look at anything OTHER than the nat geo piece on memory? I found it fascinatign to watch and at the time the lisa irwin case didnt' even cross my mind. It was just around the same time, within a week or two , that I read somewhere someone wwas talking about the witnesses and their sightings and I thought of the nat geo piece and how people with the most sincere of intentions can still NOT rely on their memory to be accurate all the time. If not for this case, then just for general knowledge
When you see how faulty memory is it'll benefit in a lot of ways.
I cant' remember half the things said jsut a few pages ago, and it probably SHOWS, lol. But I'm going to blame it on memory because mine is WORSE than most I think.

Originally posted by schmae
So Gabby you're open to look at anything OTHER than the nat geo piece on memory? I found it fascinatign to watch and at the time the lisa irwin case didnt' even cross my mind. It was just around the same time, within a week or two , that I read somewhere someone wwas talking about the witnesses and their sightings and I thought of the nat geo piece and how people with the most sincere of intentions can still NOT rely on their memory to be accurate all the time. If not for this case, then just for general knowledge
When you see how faulty memory is it'll benefit in a lot of ways.
I cant' remember half the things said jsut a few pages ago, and it probably SHOWS, lol. But I'm going to blame it on memory because mine is WORSE than most I think.

I'm looking for it now.. but it still doesn't change my mind on how important witnesses are in cases like these. wasn't jaycee dugart seen being pulled into a car by a witness??

Wonder how fast they dismissed that lead.. due to faulty memory.. and kept continuing to focus on the father..

Look at the price he had to pay for that.. literally had to move because of death threats I believe.

reply to post by gabby2011


Gabby these are mk ultra and monarch type stories? I've read many of those. Which is why I believe in the INTL child selling rings, etc. In fact you know, I have pondered that Deb might even be one of those, given her childhood ,it's not unheard of right? But that was just a wild hair pondering ! Certainly a topic for another day ! and anotehr thread !

reply to post by Michelle129th


I never read that Jersey was in a casino that night. That doesnt' mean I discount it though. This isjust the first I'm hearing of it. Also a similar thing , once some media, I think foxnews, said after the break '' why was lisa bradleys brother seen at this DELI at 4 am the morning after lisa went missing' . I watched this news after the commercial and they never mentioned it again, EVER. I've never seen any reference to it again. I'm wondering if the foxnews had it wrong and pulled the story or even possibly a typo or something else and then realized woops. It would seem really interesting if her bro was at a deli at that time of night ! But I guess it didnt' happen or at least it was anotehr false lead... media messing around again?

reply to post by gabby2011


I'll agree Gabby. But if you go down a wild goose chase to a dead end and then turns out it's because they were drinking their info was worthless, you would feel double defeated, agreed?

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011

 

Gabby these are mk ultra and monarch type stories? I've read many of those. Which is why I believe in the INTL child selling rings, etc. In fact you know, I have pondered that Deb might even be one of those, given her childhood ,it's not unheard of right? But that was just a wild hair pondering ! Certainly a topic for another day ! and anotehr thread !

Yes I'm sure you have "pondered" it.. and the reason why I brought it into this thread was because you implied that these child rings wouldn't want a child lisa's age.. so obviously you haven't read all that much about it.. and you're not taking accountability for why I chose to bring it up in this thread..

Soley because of your skeptisim..

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011

 

I'll agree Gabby. But if you go down a wild goose chase to a dead end and then turns out it's because they were drinking their info was worthless, you would feel double defeated, agreed?

wow..so I guess anyone who has a few drinks.. or is on any kind of illegal drugs.. better never try to help someone out... or not trust anything they see with their own two eyes enough to give a description .

Only if you are on legal drugs prescribed by a doctor..correct?

www.grayarea.com...

Dominance and Submission: How the Police Use Psychological Manipulation to Interrogate Citizens
By Dylan Kurz

In our society it is common to treat the police as less than intelligent. We laugh at the antics of law enforcement officers when we read of their mishaps in the news media and figure this to be their normative behavior. The only people we think to be stupider than the cops are the criminals they deal with.

Law enforcement is a sophisticated business, and not quite as filled with the bumbling idiots that the media portray it to be. As in any line of work, there are the usual collection of misfits and those who are merely on the job for the paycheck. Law enforcement techniques have had to evolve over the years, and tried and true systems have evolved with everything the police do.

There are a couple snips. Go to the link for an excellent read about the Reid technique.

Modern Police Interrogation Techniques Use Subtle Psychological Manipulation

news.everest.edu...

Nothing guarantees a criminal conviction more than a confession. But getting a confession—especially a confession that will hold up in court—is no easy task. To overcome a suspect’s natural impulse to deny guilt—and to avoid having an interrogation halted by a request for a lawyer—criminal justice experts have developed sophisticated interviewing techniques that employ subtle psychological manipulation and observation of body language to bring out the truth.

These two articles seemed to me very carefully written, with intelligence and researched knowledge. I found them fascinating, and in MY MIND they justfy and explain the tactics described by Deborah...which just might have worked if the attorney's had not pulled the plug on solo interviews.

and finally: well, crap. there was an article about how John Douglas (good read, him!) who was one of the original profilers helped to teach LEO teams ways to do this...Was in Wayback archives, but now I can't find it....anyway it talked about deciding which agents to use, etc. based on personalities, even have them dress the same...and that via those methods they can eliminate someone as innocent or extract a confession.
Crap, I'll keep digging, see if I can find it again.

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by Michelle129th

 

I never read that Jersey was in a casino that night. That doesnt' mean I discount it though. This isjust the first I'm hearing of it. Also a similar thing , once some media, I think foxnews, said after the break '' why was lisa bradleys brother seen at this DELI at 4 am the morning after lisa went missing' . I watched this news after the commercial and they never mentioned it again, EVER. I've never seen any reference to it again. I'm wondering if the foxnews had it wrong and pulled the story or even possibly a typo or something else and then realized woops. It would seem really interesting if her bro was at a deli at that time of night ! But I guess it didnt' happen or at least it was anotehr false lead... media messing around again?

The information wasn't given via media. The information is being put on another internet forum with a section for Baby Lisa discussion by someone claiming to be a PO in that area of Missouri. The person claims it is public knowledge...as in...if you check police blotters court documents etc you can find the information...so they have no problem posting about it. I have no idea how/what/who/where police blotters are LOL...and don't even care that much...I just wondered if it could affect a possible future case

Michelle

reply to post by gabby2011


''Yes I'm sure you have "pondered" it.. and the reason why I brought it into this thread was because you implied that these child rings wouldn't want a child lisa's age.. so obviously you haven't read all that much about it.. and you're not taking accountability for why I chose to bring it up in this thread..

Soley because of your skeptisim.. ''

What are you talking about ? My skepticism about.................?
I implied and said that was a GUESS, correct? That i was strictly guessing?
I'm not taking accountability for why YOU CHOSE to bring it up ? I don't understand this statement. How can I take accountability for something you choose to discuss?
I'm lost.

'''''Regarding international child selling rings... I want to GUESS and this is only a guess so no one bash ahoy on me for it, but I 'd guess that most of the children taken for that sort of life are older than an infant. If they are God forbid, being sold into sex slavery, I would think it would be more in the older age groups,, pre teenage, etc.
Again, ONLY A GUESS ! ''''''


I IMPLIED ????? ^^^ Or did I say clearly 3 full times, this is ONLY a guess?

I think we are splitting hairs over international child selling rings , vs interntaional child selling rings FUNDED by an illuminati........is that possibly where the problem comes?

reply to post by gabby2011


You didn't answer my question? Would you feel worse after having some false hope and then finding out they were actually too drunk to remembe accurately?

How about this,,, there's a fork in the road and one sober person points left and one drunk person points right and says that's the way they took your child.........what do you do? You can only RUN down one path at a time, so who's word do you take?

here's the other one...web.archive.org...

Zeroing in on a Suspect's Weakness
How Profilers Stage an Interrogation

Editor's note: This is the third in a series of columns on profiling.
April 17, 2000

here's a snip of the preliminaries:

I've conducted a few interrogations; profilers are sometimes called upon to do this. But most often, their job is to help select and prepare investigators from local law enforcement or state or federal agencies -- often other FBI agents -- to question the suspect. By formulating an approach that zeroes in on the suspect's weakness, profilers augment the investigators' knowledge of the case with a script and setting for the interrogation -- what I call "staging."

reply to post by schmae


I read in another forum that there was some discussion of Jersey stealing a car from a casino or something like that. There was some back and forth about his alibi...
let me see if I can find anything.

Whu oh....my own quote:

...which just might have worked if the attorney's had not pulled the plug on solo interviews.

Just to preempt any attacks on that remark....
I meant it might have worked to ELIMINATE or SUPPORT her as a suspect. Either way. The technique works just as well to identify who is INNOCENT.
ok.
just wanted to point that out.
the police might have been able -- and STILL might be able -- to completely rule out Deborah and Jeremy if they would just talk to them.

reply to post by wildtimes


Poor Jersey, I have a feeling he has the ultimate case of wrong place/ wrong time on this. I don't know if I already said so in this thread, but I live very rurally in a giant 'neighborhood' . Everyone has 5 to 30 acres or so, so thehomes are very spread apart. There's a neighborhood 'wanderer'. Here's a kid who had a hard time in high school, eventually dropped out, has a learning disability and apparently little motivation or ability to go anyhwhere other than his parents' home. We know him and he's a nice kid, well young adult now. But he's always had a certain style about him, going from long hair , to mohawks to bald head, always dressing in ozzy style black tshirts etc. ... and always ALWAYS on foot wandering around. Sometimes a bike or skateboard, but mostly on foot any hour of the day or night. He's just bored and wandering around with her music playing and doing his thing. To my knowledge he has never hurt anyone or been accused of any crime at all.. he's bascially harmless, in m y opinion ! But I 've imagined him as the ' jersey' type in this scenario. I think if this had happened in my neighborhood, everyone would automatically point at him and say well he's kinda odd and wanders all over aimlessly etc. I know him because of his age and my kid's ages, etc. Others in the neighborhood who've only SEEN him and never MET him might thing he looks scary and even dangerous. So I've always kind of pictured Jersey as the basically harmless guy who happened to have been too regularly seen wandering around this neighborhood !

reply to post by schmae


Yeah, we have kid (young man) who walks around the neighborhood, too....kinda slobby, long hair, balding, obviously not "all there." Just something weird about him.

I only see him during the day, but he takes his "walk" nearly EVERY day that it's not storming....

A couple of years ago someone shot our kitten in the gut wth a pellet gun (almost died, but he was saved), and we even put a sign out front on our mailbox offering a reward for info.

No one ever came forward. One day I was in a confrontational mood while out in my front garden, and saw him. I said "excuse me, do you own a pellet gun?" he said "no, why?". I said "someone shot our cat" and he said "well, I wouldn't do that! Even if I had one!"

I mean, every neighborhood has their "challenged" wanderers, right? Well, that was our one and only conversation. (Not the kind of guy I want to be 'friends' with). I don't know his name, or where he lives. But, did he do it? Who knows? I know if my husband ever finds out who it was they'd be lucky not to grow a pellet-hole in their gut.
But....BUT
Jersey has a criminal record. So, he's not such an innocent as far as I can tell.....lots of car break-ins....squatting (supposedly, according to a local neighbor) in vacant houses....

anyway, who knows. I kinda lean toward the guy is icky.
I've seen mug shots of him, too. Just kind of icky.

anyway....neighborhood weirdos are par for the course in any city, I think.

Oh, also, looking at a forum page about Lisa, I just saw where the FBI has been questioning people, knocking on doors, as far away as upstate New York!, following up on "sighting" leads. So, that's good to know. They are still looking for her!!!
Yay!!

(that story was posted by a member whose neighbor was confronted to prove her baby wasn't Lisa. Another member said that the same happened to someone she knew in Kansas City. So -- they have NOT given up, apparently)

Originally posted by Michelle129th

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by Michelle129th

 

I never read that Jersey was in a casino that night. That doesnt' mean I discount it though. This isjust the first I'm hearing of it. Also a similar thing , once some media, I think foxnews, said after the break '' why was lisa bradleys brother seen at this DELI at 4 am the morning after lisa went missing' . I watched this news after the commercial and they never mentioned it again, EVER. I've never seen any reference to it again. I'm wondering if the foxnews had it wrong and pulled the story or even possibly a typo or something else and then realized woops. It would seem really interesting if her bro was at a deli at that time of night ! But I guess it didnt' happen or at least it was anotehr false lead... media messing around again?

The information wasn't given via media. The information is being put on another internet forum with a section for Baby Lisa discussion by someone claiming to be a PO in that area of Missouri. The person claims it is public knowledge...as in...if you check police blotters court documents etc you can find the information...so they have no problem posting about it. I have no idea how/what/who/where police blotters are LOL...and don't even care that much...I just wondered if it could affect a possible future case

Michelle

Hi Michelle..I know of the forum you are speaking of, & that specific member has been a member on that forum for 3 years now. I believe her....But, you ask some very good questions. I'm thinking since her boss has ok'd her speaking about certain things, that it might be fine. Just guessing though?? Would like to hear from any of our legal eagles here..

reply to post by wildtimes


yes Jerssey has a record and this guy in my neighborhood may very well I have no idea. But the neighbors around Jersey don't know about his record likely. When a baby comes uip missing they just think here's this suspicious looking fellow, he's SURELY involved.