Is it possible to arrest a cop?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Pixiefyre

 

Your position is based off the officer doing an illegal action. The question then comes back to how is the action illegal? Officer misconduct is anot an arrestable offense since offer conduct is a policy issue and not a matter of law.

How's this, refused to even investigate the sexual assault of a 15 year old girl by a 17 year old guy (age of consent is 17 and girl was highly traumatized), because the 17 year old guy was the nephew of a fellow officer who was planning on following in his uncles footsteps

Originally posted by Deafseeingeyedog
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Very intelligent feedback and much appreciated!

My hypothetical situation i had in mind, to be specific, would be something along the lines of where there's a 6 foot tall 200 pound cop, thrashing with excessive force, a 110 lb female in the middle of a protest. With witness's, would there be any legal way for a group of citizens to detain a cop in order to halt the beatings and at the same time, get the attention of the authorities who would be able to take real action?

Yes, i am an idealist, please don't shoot.

** sorry for long response and grammer. Its been a long day)*

Actually im glad people ask these questions and look for feedback. I do not live in New York, so my responses are based on my state and Supreme Court rulings (which do affect all states in the same manner).

Something to keep in mind when an officer uses force.

The review of that force is what did the officer perceive the exact moment they used the force (Supreme Court ruling standard).

What you describe is a whole bunch of people protesting, watching an officer manhandle the female in the middle. What is not being taken into account is what the officer sees.

He is not only dealing with that female, but the crowd as well. Whether it occurs or not, the crowd is a consideration and the actions / tone of the crowd can be used to justify the officers actions (based on the hypotheticla mind you).

People have this uncanny ability to underestimate women. I would glady square off with a 6'3 240 male who is solid muscle than a 110 pound female. Females do not fight fair and with society today the general principle is a male should never punhc / hit / strike a female. Its a foreign concept for a male to engage a female in a fight, and we have a tendancy to use less force than normal solely because we are dealing with a female.

What could be perceived as an over reaction by the crowd is easily seen as a potentially violent escalation of the use of force. In that instance the goal (as well as Supreme court ruling) is to end the encounter as fast as possible using the least amount of force neccisaary.

In the officers mind, surrounded by the crowd, the minddset is easily end the encounter because of the crowd, which can justify the officers use of force.


I bring this up because people ignore that fact when they suggest trying to arrest an officer. An officer who is arresting a female is using force - less than lethal. If another person becomes involved, that person just escalted the situation to a 2 on one situation now. If the person arrested is already in handcuffs, the officer is responsible for that persons safety.

Why does that matter? Because almiost every single state in the Union allows and individual to use deadly force to protect themselves and others. A person does not have to be armed to force an officer to use deadly force (contrary to peoples opinions and TV). A 2 on one encounter can be articulated as a deadly force encounter.

The other thing people dont take into account is our duty belts and whats on it. We are trained in weapons retention, however its never 2/3/4 people on one officer. Any object that could be used to incapacitate an officer can be taken as a deadly weapon.

Reason being it would allow a perosn access to our pepper cpray / OC / Taser / Duty Weapon / Backup duty weapon / knife / handcuffs / etc etc etc (if you are asking about the handcuffs, and unsecured handcuff can be swug with such force it can penetrate your skull).

This topic is not aa black and white as people think it is. I urger very strongsly for people to learn the laws and how they work before even attmepting to go down this road.

In the end, being a good witnesses can often do more good than taking action where the end result could be your death.

Other food for thought - Supreme Court ruling states a person cannot resist an unlawful arrest. An incident occured in Missouri where a perosn was stopped, and by the time it was overwith they had to forcibly remove the lady from her car to make the arrest. She argued she did not violate any laws In the end, the origional charge (reason for the stop) was found to be invalid. However, she was found guilty of resisting an arrest.

The Police do not file the charges - The PA did. Its the PAs repsonibility to decide if the elements are present for the law to be violated. Just because they state there is not enough, doesnt mean the actions by law enforcement were illegal.

Depending on state, a person can be arrested and booked into jail anywhere from 24-72 hours. During that time a PC statment must be submitted to the PA, who then decides if they will prosecute. If they decline, or it goes beyond the time frame, the perosn is released.

Originally posted by Pixiefyre

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Pixiefyre

 

Your position is based off the officer doing an illegal action. The question then comes back to how is the action illegal? Officer misconduct is anot an arrestable offense since offer conduct is a policy issue and not a matter of law.

How's this, refused to even investigate the sexual assault of a 15 year old girl by a 17 year old guy (age of consent is 17 and girl was highly traumatized), because the 17 year old guy was the nephew of a fellow officer who was planning on following in his uncles footsteps

File an IA complaint with the agency the officer worked for / jurisdiciton. File a complaint with the PA's office, or if their action is questionable file a complaint with the State Attorney Generals Office. A complaint might be able to be filed with the FBI for a possible civil rights violation y the officer (42 USC 1983).

If its a secual assault and there is absolutely no romatic history( they dtated / lived together etc) then it will fall under he assault, which means (states vary) in order to prosecute they have to have the cooperation of the victim. If there is a nhistory its most likely going to fall under domestic violence laws, which dont need a cooperating victim (the state can proceeed without the victim).

Since I dont know any of the particulars, I can only guess. However, what you describe has nothing to do with every single officer in the country. You are giving me your view of it based on your perception (and thats fine, but still a bit problematic) of wrongdoing.

Your description does make the police look guilty, but without having all the particulars, I cant give an opinion one way or the other.

secondly, and this is the big one, Law Enforcement has abolsutely nothing to do with charging a person with a crime. We investigate, do the report, and submit it to the PA's office who reviewes it and they decide if charges are warranted or not.

The Police do not work for the judicial branch, we are in the executive. The PA is Judicial and sole authority for prosecution is theirs.

There is more info on Occupy WallStreet on wikipedia and it just happened I bet it is rare a cop get arrested.By a individual.

Originally posted by JaxJoey
There is more info on Occupy WallStreet on wikipedia and it just happened I bet it is rare a cop get arrested.By a individual.

The use of pepper spray is commonly used in large crowd situations. Depending on agecy policies, the use of pepper spray can come right after an officer says hello (subject resistance control continuum).

I dont know the details, but if they were close to a police line and refused to move / disperse / back away the use of pepper spray is valid (based on that setup);.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I do know the particulars unfortunately. The two were never romantically involved or even friends. The went to the same school so they did know each other and he had bullied her a couple of times in the past. He had also been restricted from extra curricular activities after he molested another girl from the school.

The officers took the report, the detective refused to investigate. He did question her, he did not allow her to have an advocate, nor did he record the interrogation. When it was over she was more traumatized than when she went in as by her report he accused her of having a vendetta against this boy and trying to ruin his life.

Believe me you don't want to hear the whole story and I don't want to get into deeper details but I have no doubt the girl was truthful in her description of his questioning.

I should stop now....cause....see, I am her mom.



While this was a horrendous and painful experience, we do understand that this is not the norm for officers of the law, just for the ones where we used to live.

reply to post by Pixiefyre


While I am sympathetic to the situation, there is not enough info to make anyhting but an opinionated answer. My point being though is not all cops behave in the manner you are describing. Since you dont want to get into it, and I completely understand why, I wont ask any more questions on that topic.

All I ask is dont place all officers into the same category you place the ones with your situation.

Edit - I replied after you edited your post with the last line. Thank you for including that.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I don't nor does she. There are good people in the world and there are not so good people in the world, and police officers are just people.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I like your avatar, but would like to know your thoughts behind it.

from the stars, knowledge
The voice of the people, is the voice of god

What is your take on these protests?

Originally posted by Deafseeingeyedog
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

I like your avatar, but would like to know your thoughts behind it.

from the stars, knowledge
The voice of the people, is the voice of god

What is your take on these protests?

I think its completely warranted and should have been done a looonnnggg time ago. There is essentially no middle class anymore. You are either rich or you are poor. The US government thinks its appropriate to represent businesses instead of the people who elected them into office. Congressional oversight in the finance area is a myth.

You cannot rely on businesses to do their own oversight. It would be like having the SS investigate Aushwitz (to use an overly used term). No wrong doing would be found.

People must get invovled with government, at all levels, and participate. The days of leaving the country on auto pilot are overwith.

We sink or swim together... So long as the protests dont turn violent I completely support them.

As a side note when you asked about wanting to know whats behind the thought, were you reffering to my avatar or the protesters?

reply to post by Xcathdra


I was curious about both. And I do agree that we all need to participate in government, but we need to clean out the clutter first.