Christians: Convert Each Other First Before Bothering Me.

Believe this or go to Hell....

Yeah, yeah, yeah... spare me the fear-mongering!

No matter what church you walk in to.... no matter which preacher, priest, deacon, father, or pastor you talk to... no matter what individual Christian you talk to... you will NEVER find two churches, two church leaders, nor two believers that 100% agree with each on every verse of the Bible.

Why is this? Why so much confusion, discrepancy, and debate? If the Christian faith is so perfect... so right... why can't your anthropomorphic God make his believers see eye-to-eye? Is He not wise enough or powerful enough to establish His religion without splinter groups or debate? Come on... not even two individual Christians agree about God 100%!!! Wow

"We don't agree because we all have our own personal relationships with God, and no two relationships are the same." Ever stop to think that 'non-believers' have their own relationship and understandings about God/Creator/Source too? Probably not, because you are too close-minded and overly zealous to realize it.

You Christians can't even agree with each other, but you go out and expect non-believers to agree with you? This is crazy bologna talk!

reply to post by Sahabi


why some much confusion?
the bible is full of contradiction..
one verse is accepted and followed today, but a verse directly underneath it that condones killing people or something of the sort is not talked about.
fear also creates confusion, you cant think rationaly if your scared..emotion takes over, and emotion is exactly what corporate institues like religions get their power from
the list goes on..

reply to post by Sahabi


Amen, if you can't tell me what to believe what makes you so special to try and convert me!

reply to post by Sahabi

Believe this or go to Hell....

Should we use the sword to convince people to convert like Islam does??

Originally posted by Sahabi
Believe this or go to Hell....

Yeah, yeah, yeah... spare me the fear-mongering!

No matter what church you walk in to.... no matter which preacher, priest, deacon, father, or pastor you talk to... no matter what individual Christian you talk to... you will NEVER find two churches, two church leaders, nor two believers that 100% agree with each on every verse of the Bible.

Why is this? Why so much confusion, discrepancy, and debate? If the Christian faith is so perfect... so right... why can't your anthropomorphic God make his believers see eye-to-eye? Is He not wise enough or powerful enough to establish His religion without splinter groups or debate? Come on... not even two individual Christians agree about God 100%!!! Wow

"We don't agree because we all have our own personal relationships with God, and no two relationships are the same." Ever stop to think that 'non-believers' have their own relationship and understandings about God/Creator/Source too? Probably not, because you are too close-minded and overly zealous to realize it.

You Christians can't even agree with each other, but you go out and expect non-believers to agree with you? This is crazy bologna talk!

For you eye to eye is that not free will?

The Bible tells us to search the scriptures for the truth. It may take some insight from others to understand at first, yet if one is truly trying to seek salvation and the will of God prayer will allow the Holy Spirit to come into your life and give you the wisdom to discern God's word.

As for relationships with out God as you state, those who believe are commanded to Go Out and Preach the Gospel.

We are to Hate the Sin but not the Sinner, this is difficult to do as we can not surround our lives with the spirits that inhabit those who do not follow the Word.

Eph.6 1. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Free will is a destructive force that we men and women can not control, we tend to do that what we wish and not adhere to the precepts and concepts that God has written in our hearts, minds and in his word the Bible.

Originally posted by UniverSoul
reply to post by Sahabi

 

why some much confusion?
the bible is full of contradiction..
one verse is accepted and followed today, but a verse directly underneath it that condones killing people or something of the sort is not talked about.
fear also creates confusion, you cant think rationaly if your scared..emotion takes over, and emotion is exactly what corporate institues like religions get their power from
the list goes on..

What contradiction,

are you a scholar of the Bible, please show examples

I agree with the basic premise of the post, that we need to get together on the same page before we go out preaching. Easier said than done, my friend. There is a ministry called Wild Branch Ministry that reconciles Judaism with Christianity. So much resonates with me.

If every Christian and Jew were to watch JUST THIS VIDEO, not to mention the countless hundreds of others in relation to Wild Branch Ministry, we'd all be on the same page here.

www.yah-tube.com...

reply to post by UniverSoul



Fear is a huge control mechanism. Religion and scare tactics were probably very much needed to help civilize savage and barbaric people in days long gone. The 'Knowledge of Good and Evil' runs through all of our veins, we don't need someone trying to 'scare us straight' in order for us to live an upright life anymore. Collectively as a species, we still have a lot of work to do, but we have come a long way since Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad were around. Equality, Love, and Freedom are soooo close!



reply to post by Heartisblack


Exactly! If Christians can't agree on their own religion, why are they so desperate to get non-Christians into the confusion too?

Because we don't want anyone to be eternally seperated from God?

I know, I know, most people can't grasp that concept, because there is nothing in it for US.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Illustrating an example from one religion to justify another religion is not how to have a proper discussion. This tactic is nothing short of avoiding the point: Why can we not find two churches, two religious leaders, or even two individual Christians that 100% agree on every single point of the Bible and Christian doctrine/dogma if it is 'The Way'?

Originally posted by Sahabi
Fear is a huge control mechanism. Religion and scare tactics were probably very much needed to help civilize savage and barbaric people in days long gone. The 'Knowledge of Good and Evil' runs through all of our veins, we don't need someone trying to 'scare us straight' in order for us to live an upright life anymore.

THIS is the problem. We have the knowledge of good and evil running through our veins instead of the knowledge of "LIFE!"

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Sahabi

 

Believe this or go to Hell....

Should we use the sword to convince people to convert like Islam does??

Imaginary sword(threat of hell) you use now. Though you(speaking of Christianity in general, not you individually) used literal swords(and stones, and fires, and wars) in the past.

To compare to islam, is a failure, because Christianity was just as horrible back when it was barbaric people following it. Islam is no more horrible, it just hasn't grown because it's prominent in less developed areas. Whereas christian areas have grown, and rationalizations have constantly had to been made to keep a barbaric book seemingly acceptable to a no longer barbaric society.

~
To be on topic though:


People would have the same ideas if they all had the a personal relationship with the seem being. Contradictions in beliefs, show that most christians don't have a personal relationship with anything more than an imaginary version of the deity. They would all be the same if they were all connected to a real being.

If most are mistaken, the question begs if they all are or if a few happen to be right. I find it more practical to think none of those who claim to be connected to Yahweh actually are(could go even farther and say that's due to Yahweh only ever existing in the imagination), than to say a very select few are, and have no way of knowing which group is or having them having any more way to show for it.

Think of how all the 'inspired' people have changed. From old testimate times, to new, to dark ages, to now, everyone has always felt a connection to a god that contradicted others connections, especially across time periods.

Then, when you get past the fact that very few can find agreement on every bit of god's word and meanings, there's so many more that feel strong connections to different contradictory gods.

If I was a christian, or any other religious person, I wouldn't think that god was personally knowable in the sense that most do. I wouldn't imagine him telling me what I think is right, I would take what I believe about him(inspired the bible, or whatever) and study from there on to constantly refine my ideas about him, which would at least justify different ideas from different people.

reply to post by ACTS 2:38


Beyond the scriptures, we must seek out Truth in whatever source it may present itself. Easier said than done, for many wish to present falsehoods as Truth in order to confuse, deceive, and meet a certain agenda. As we search the Bible for Truth, what are we to think when we find falsehoods mixed-in with Truth?

If preaching is part of your religion, then by all means, preach! Preach all day and all night... that's what your church and private home is for. If preaching is not a religious practice of non-Christians, how will you respect their free will of disagreement/disbelief, their freedom to not get criticized and threatened with Hell, and their free choice to not want to hear it? Is this even possible, or do Christians seek to bypass the free will of others? Jesus Christ is the most recognizable person in the entire world, second to Michael Jackson If a person wants your religion, I'm pretty sure they know where to look.

"Hate the sin, love the sinner." The Truth I have found says to accept, understand, and love all, and to not judge. I thought the Bible said a thing or two about God being the only Judge, and to work on your ownself instead of criticizing and condemning others (remove the plank from your eye...), and that all are children of God. Or are we running into that "every person has their own and different interpretation of the Bible" thing again?

I really do apologize if my tone seems negative. To be honest, I see every single human as my brother/sister/equal/self. I love all and try really hard to be accepting, understanding, and forgiving. I'm not some "angry atheist". But when I dream of being free, equal, and in harmonic unity with my fellow human... there's always the issue of religious superiority and separation that I see ruining this dream of mine. Divide and conquer... we are so utterly separated by religion, nationality, ethnicity, social/wealth status, political party, and even sports team!! I just dream of all of us loving each other without judgement, and being truly free to believe as we wish. "Love the Lord thy God with all your heart and all your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself," do we really need more than this?

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

Imaginary sword(threat of hell) you use now.

Correct, at a minimum you caught that, good job. So here is what I'm trying to find out from the OP, he/she condemns telling folks that a fiery hell awaits them unless they repent. So I'm wondering if the Islamic alternative is what they suggest. The OP has been quite supportive of Islam in past posts.

So, again, should we Christians use the sword to make conversions like Islam does??

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Illustrating an example from one religion to justify another religion is not how to have a proper discussion. This tactic is nothing short of avoiding the point: Why can we not find two churches, two religious leaders, or even two individual Christians that 100% agree on every single point of the Bible and Christian doctrine/dogma if it is 'The Way'?

Your post is quite misleading. Christians usually, (unless they are a "cult"), do not differ on the core foundational beliefs. I.E. the deity of Jesus Christ, the blood atonement, the Trinity, et cetra. We mostly differ on types of service and worship songs, or Eschatalogical interpretation, minor points of contention that doesn't matter in the larger picture of justification before God.

The BEGINNING of wisdom is fear.
In short, yes. Fear for ones eternal soul is what gets people going on the path.

Psalm 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments; His praise endures forever.
Psalm 111:9-10 (in Context) Psalm 111 (Whole Chapter)

Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Proverbs 9:9-11 (in Context) Proverbs 9 (Whole Chapter)

Luke 1:50
“ AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION TOWARD THOSE WHO FEAR HIM.
Luke 1:49-51 (in Context) Luke 1 (Whole Chapter)

Originally posted by graphuto
Because we don't want anyone to be eternally seperated from God?

I know, I know, most people can't grasp that concept, because there is nothing in it for US.

Correct, if a person believes there is eternal life, and eternal life is possible for all men and women through Christ, then they'd really have to hate someone's guts to not tell them and make an effort to let people know the truth.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I used to be supportive of Islam in my postings because I used to be a Muslim. For a good ten years of my life I followed the Sunni fundamentalist 'Salafi' school of thought. But I am no longer a Muslim.

I follow the teachings of Jesus, Buddha, and Muhammad that do not contradict love, forgiveness, acceptance, caring, helping, equality, and freedom. I turn my back on any teachings that insight separation, disunity, wickedness, anger, hate, and fear.

As I said above; I really do apologize if my tone seems negative. To be honest, I see every single human as my brother/sister/equal/self. I love all and try really hard to be accepting, understanding, and forgiving. I'm not some "angry atheist". But when I dream of being free, equal, and in harmonic unity with my fellow human... there's always the issue of religious superiority and separation that I see ruining this dream of mine. Divide and conquer... we are so utterly separated by religion, nationality, ethnicity, social/wealth status, political party, and even sports team!! I just dream of all of us loving each other without judgement, and being truly free to believe as we wish. "Love the Lord thy God with all your heart and all your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself," do we really need more than this?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Wrong. Many denominations and sects disagree on the basics!

Some are Trinitarian, some are non-Trinitarian.
Some believe Jesus is the Son of God, and that Lord the Father is the only God.
Some believe Jesus, the Father, and Holy Spirit are one. Some do not.
Some worship Mary, some do not.
Some make Mary divine, some do not.
Some pray to Saints, some do not.
Some pray to angels, some do not.
Some worship on Sunday. Some worship on Saturday.
Some believe in salvation through faith, some believe faith through works.
Some believe in a Rapture, some do not.
Some believe infants go to Hell, some do not.
On, and on.....

Wrong. These are the basics:

Love God with all your heart and all your soul.
Love your neighbor as yourself.

How can one profess to love God without keeping his commandments?