Underground Ice Storage Question..

Hi People,

I read a few weeks ago, before refridgeration people would stockpile ice in the winter in an underground cellar for use in the spring and summer.

My question is, how much Ice would you need to stockpile for it to become self sustaining and not melt as temperatures rise ?

I have spent days looking for the answer on the interweb, but alas nothing found yet.. Any help would be .. well helpful.

Peace..

Rock Ape.

reply to post by Rock Ape


Rather than stockpile ice, I would look at alternative methods of refridgeration. There is a Thread here somewhere on just that. The search function will help you.

Now on a more personal note. Rock Ape, are you serving or ex RAF Reg? I also take it you have read or watched A Game Of Thrones, considering Winter is indeed coming. Watch for the white walkers.

This has interested me a lot as well. In the BBC/HBO series Rome they send ice to people as a luxioury gift and I always wondered how they kept it kool, I also saw a show that breifly described ancient Iraqi ice storage, but no specifics I'm afriad. If noone can help try digging holes at various depths and montoring the time it takes ice to melt, you should be able to get a rough idea of how each increase in depth effects the results and be able to crudely calculate how much further to dig.

Or try google ancient underground freezing, there must be some info out there.

reply to post by Rock Ape

Ice would be sustained and presumably self sustaining irrespective of the quantity to a degree, so long as the environment in which it is created/stored is maintained...But I found this article which may prove interesting.

www.ipcbee.com...

Ice storage for the homeowner is accomplished in this manner.

Dig a hole / cellar. The hole will need to have a ceiling three feet below the surface.

Start with a layer of straw or saw dust, this is to keep the ice clean and insulated.

Add Ice layer. Must use Block Ice, the larger block, the better, but you still must be able to move it. Normal blocks would be in the 25-50 pound size. Fit the blocks tightly to fill the first layer. Cover with another layer of straw or saw dust, repeat the process until your “cellar” is full.
The Ice stored in this manner would last until the next year. This process will be done yearly.

The Ice would be cut from fresh water ponds and lakes during the hard freeze of winter.

Side note.

This process would not be able to be performed today for two reasons. First, the lakes and ponds no longer freeze over as thickly as they did a 100 to150 years ago.

Second, which is most important, the fresh water ponds and lakes are polluted.
Another side note. Japan harvest Icebergs, Ships will hook a tow line to an iceberg and tow it back to Japan for resale.

Thankyou for the above reply's folks, this gives be the basics I need.


Peace..

Rock Ape.

They still do an ice harvest in Miller's Mills, NY every year, with horses, hand saws and all.
The ice blocks are stored (without refrigeration) and used for an Ice Cream Social in the summer.
Might be something you'd be interested in checking out, or even attending this winter (date not yet announced). Lots of knowledgeable 'old-timers' always show up.



Miller's Mills Ice Harvest

Here is a good idea of what you need:



Basically, you are going to want to insulate the ice storage area as much as possible. And then fill it with as much ice as you can during the winter months.

back in the day as a child when i watched my pops in the fields plowing, and discing and planting

there was a nearby creek that he use to put his beverages for the day the water keep them ice cold

as well as people near lakes and ponds use to tie a six pack to a rope and just throw in the water and let water keep it cold.

ice tho seems too problematic without electricity these days

reply to post by Rock Ape


You've never found one? The leftover hole I mean. They're about 12 feet deep and about 6 feet across at the bottom.

in the UK , ice houses were used

basically - the ice house should be fill to the roof - with the largest block sizes that can be trasported

straw bales were used to block the entrance tunnel [ nowadays you would use polystyrene bricks ]

you are very unlikley to acheive a " self sustaining " ice house - the trick is to ensure that AFTER melting - you still have enough for your needs

oh - and remember tht each harvesting will accelerate meltng