God Hoards Eternal Life While Jesus Promises It?

Originally posted by Sahaba

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by Sahaba

 

Please see Matthew 18.3:

And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Same deal, different details. Children come into the world innocent and blameless, loving all. They only learn perversity and sin. Adam and Eve's original state is what it is to have "faith like a child".

And this is what we should all have. Love and wonder for the world and each other, and not judgement or hatred for each other.

Very nicely said. Thank you for supplying this verse, for this is one of many verses that prove 'original sin' is a bunch of dogmatic propaganda.
I beg to differ with you . The only sin is not following the Lord Jesus . The only thing that will send you to hell is the rejection of the Blood Sacrifice of Jesus Christ as your Savior. God was pleased to set up the good and evil that made this world go around . In Gods plan if man was HOLY he would not need salvation . As you need a positive and negative potential to start current flow , something that we depend on good and evil test' man's character . God planned it that way and if it sickens you think about the things that we do . Football , baseball , checkers , chess , boxing and card games. Why do we insist that someone wins and someone suffers defeat . Why can't both sides win ? Well when you get to be God you can make your own rules , and I'm sure someone is going to pick you apart for it too! In the game of life you will either win with Jesus or lose with Satan . There is no in between . You have already made your choice for now but, as long as you are alive and still in this game you can change your commitment .But you can't when time stops for you
A thread of mine: There Is NO Original Sin

reply to post by micmerci


What happens to everyone before Jesus came as the son of man? None of them had an opportunity for Jesus' blood atonement nor salvation. Lord God of the Old Testament always said to repent... so when exactly did repentance become invalid?

So what is the gift of eternal life in opposition to? Sinning or reconciliation with God? Because most Christians (most people period) are sinners. Believing in Jesus isn't a magic pill that stops one from sinning.... can you name any single church without sinners? So it's reconciliation with God that is the key? Ok, repent and be done with it.

What was that? I need Jesus' sacrifice to redeem myself from sin? I don't think so;

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." [Ezekiel 18:20]

Lots more similar verses in this thread: There Is NO Original Sin

So Adam is a sinner just like us... but God refuses him eternal life but wants to give it to me?

reply to post by WhatsHappenin666


Either there are encoded zodialogical teachings in the Bible, or it happens to be one heck of a coincidence! Thanks for the links.

reply to post by Sahabi


Prior to Christ, God's people - the nation of Israel - obeyed the Law. However, the Law brought death, because people are incapable of fulfilling God's Law. To atone for their disobedience, the Israelites offered ritual animal sacrifices. These, however, had no power to save God's people from death. They were merely symbolic of the true sacrifice that was to come.
The Israelites, then, were saved through faith, in their obedience. And that was not obedience to the Law, just as no one today is saved by obedience to the Law... because, once again, people are incapable of fulfilling God's Law. Rather, they were saved through faith in sacrifice. The animal sacrifices were a placeholder - they were also unable to save, but they showed the faith of the Israelites in the ability of innocent blood to atone for their disobedience. This atonement was, then, ultimately accomplished in the sacrifice of true innocence - the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

So, the faithful Israelites were saved by Christ, in the same way we are today. They just didn't know it yet. And that's why God sent them the prophets, to testify of the sacrifice to come.

When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they became sinners. Had God allowed them to stay in the Garden of Eden after that, they would have still had access to the Tree of Life, which perpetuates life. Therefore, they would have been sinners who lived forever, and every person born after that would have access to the Tree of Life as well, therefore making every person who ever lived a sinner who lives forever.

In Heaven, we will have access to the Tree of Life again. Those who make it to Heaven will have overcome sin. This means that there is no problem with there being an eternal sinner. Those in Heaven will eat from the Tree of Life, and they will live forever, just like God had planned in the beginning, only Satan ruined it by tempting Eve, who in turn tempted Adam; and they both succumbed to that temptation.

The following verse talks about the Tree of Life being in Heaven, and how it will perpetuate life, allowing those in Heaven to live forever.

Revelation 22:2(KJV)
2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

And for those who think that those who go to Hell will live forever in agony, they're wrong. Just read the following study to see the truth about Hell: www.remnantofgod.org...

reply to post by Sahabi
Most welcome. While I firmly believe that mankind is INCLINED to selfishness and sin (I wonder, does this come naturally at some point if we're left alone, or is it all due to external influences like our societies...? Given the examples of children raised by animals, I'm inclined to say it's likely a case of bad company corrupting good character. Interesting.), I don't believe anyone is born in an existing state of sinfulness.

reply to post by Sahabi


The answer to the question of what happened to people before Jesus because there was no acceptable sacrifice for sin is that Man was judged by his rightousness to God . From the time of Adam to Noah , Noah to Jesus were time peroids before the crucifiction of Christ . Abraham was mentioned to be the keeper of Paridise . Enoch and Elijiah have not died as of yet , but as God said every man is appointed to die the first death , they will die as the two Witnesses in the streets of Jeruselam at the hand of Satan .
Back during Abrahams day at the alter where Isaac was to be offered to God when God knew that Abraham was actually going to obey him , he was stopped and thats when God found man worth sacrificing His own Son . There that day God promissed His Son for a sacrifice for the sins of the world . And therefore those that had faith and looked forward to the PROMISE were saved .

Originally posted by Awen24

Originally posted by micmerci
If Adam ate from the tree of life he would have had immortality as a sinner in a fallen state with no chance of reconciliation with God.

+1.
This is exactly the point of their expulsion from the garden.

Someone didn't read the OP! God kicked out Adam and Eve because God wanted to hoard eternal life away from them. God specifically says this... God never said he closed Eden's gates because of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.... He only mentions the Tree of Life.

"And the LORD God said, 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.' Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." [Genesis 3:22-24 King James Version]

No eternal life for Adam, but we can get it?

reply to post by jeramie


And, yet, we already have the benefit of this. The river of life? In Zechariah, we read:

"In that day a fountain shall be opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for impurity" (Zech. 13:1)

"And it shall be in that day, living waters shall go out from Jerusalem, ..." (Zech. 14:8).

According to Matthew 26:31, the narrative containing verse 7 of chapter 13 of Zechariah was fulfilled in Christ when he came the first time. And, given the string of "On that day"s, we can safely say that chapters 13 and 14 are speaking of the same event. That event, then, would be the first coming of Christ.

To demote the living waters to a future, heavenly experience demotes life in Christ:

"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life.'" (John 14:6a).

reply to post by chrissiel123


Adam and Eve sinned by eating a forbidden fruit, thus God withholding eternal life. We sin so much more than that! So what makes us any better than Adam and Eve that we get to receive eternal life while it was withheld from them? Belief in Jesus? Adam walked with God in the garden, I'm pretty sure his opinion of God was beyond mere 'belief.'

reply to post by TheOneElectric




In Genesis, it seems like God was more worried about Man becoming god rather than disobedience. Personally, I view 'Lord God' as one of the most tyrannical, blood thirsty, and heartless characters of the Bible.

reply to post by Sahabi


You might say God was was "worried" about man becoming a sinful "god".
He's certainly not afraid of us becoming like Him...as soon as we've overcome our sinful nature:

"Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure. Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous" (1 John 3:2-7; emphasis added).

However, given the number of times this has been said, and the fact that you seem to have ignore every Scriptural answer, I have to ask... are you actually looking for an answer?