Handguns: One shot stop vs double tap... which is better???

have you fired it at night, inside a small room, with no ear protection? :-) Better keep electronic muffs or sonic earvalve plugs with it. The flash and blast of the first shot (probably a miss) are so horrendous without ear protection, at night, ruins your night vision, you are blind, basically and you will be flinching badly. 6 shots is not much, especially in such a hard to control gun and load. try it sometime, on an electronic timer, "cold", no warmups, and see what I mean. your hearing will be neary ruined.

reply to post by linkedbelts


I have fired it at night and without ear protection but not inside. The 10" ball of flame at the end of the barrel at night is pretty cool but I can see where it would be a drawback in a darkened room. The '60s rock concerts, running engine rooms with no protection, and shooting with no protection, are probably why my hearing is nearly shot anyway. I try and protect my hearing today but would make an exception for an armed intruder in my home.


Edit:

Actually, I haven't fired my 686 without ear protection but I had a S&W Model 19 in my 20s I did fire without ear protection on a number of times.

Should this thread be called...penis enlargement or not...

I say a single shot with a 10mm or a .45 is fine if its well placed. With semiautomatic rifles i say just keep shooting until they drop.

According to Wyatt Earp the best tactic to use in a gunfight is to take your time aiming but do so as fast as you can... I was in enough fire fights in Vietnam that I was able to maintain my cool while pinned down by enemy fire to calmly direct a spotter plane over the target that in turn would have fast movers put 250 lb snakes and nape on top of it. I could also wait until an enemy rifleman exposed enough of himself to give me a target... That was a long time ago and I question my ability to be as patient and calm now... I know that when hunting wild hogs I am able to hit and kill more than other people I am with that hunt all of the time and have killed 2 out of 3 with a 9 mm High Power... I suggest to a person that wants to be able to hit what they aim at when under duress to run or do some other type of exercise to elevate their heart rate to what it would be when facing a situation that could easily result in your death and get used to hitting what you are aiming to hit while in that condition....Very few people that haven't been under fire from an enemy that is well concealed and very accurate with his weapon can develop the ability to place a shot on a target that is firing at them.

plenty who HAVE been under fire never develope such ability. I have seen MANY a cop and ex soldier fall apart under "mere" match stress, at IPSC combat pistol and rifle matches. Those who "believe" in 1 shot HITS, much less one shot stops, are living in fantasyland. It aint like practice at the range. I've seen world class competitors miss the entire silohuette target, at a mere 10 yds, just from match stress, with ear and eye protection, match gun, load, holster, lots of experience, good light, stationary target. You are not going to "be cool" when 1-2 people are firing at you 4x per second or more! Or swinging an axe, etc, from 6 ft away. Earp was dealing with very slow shooting SA revolvers, in the hands of drunken cowboys who never had a dime to spare on practice ammo.

Why play around with it?
one shot....no...this is how to deal with zombies!
watch past the big bore rifle..he is going to make a mess!
Have a nice day!

because you wont HAVE any longarm when you need it, most likely. The pocket 9mm handgun is plenty, if you are skilled with it, wear concealed armor, carry swift to insert Norton Earvalve plugs, know how to find/use cover, and use the right ammo in the pistol (Corbon's 100 gr PowRBall is the best commercially available, but I load my own). 90+% of the time, you won''t have to hit an attacker with a bullet, if you just get the gun out and ready in time for him to see it, and if you are smart enough to leave him an "out". It will cost you at least $50,000 to defend even a "righteous" shooting in most areas of the US, so avoiding having to fire is where it's at. The lawsuit will take a year or more, and ruin your job, biz, family life, etc.

reply to post by linkedbelts


If that was in response to the video I posted.
Please watch it again... WATCH PAST THE .775 BIG BORE.
He is using a Glock 17 full auto with incendiary rounds in a mag that looks to hold around 150 rounds! Ignore the .775!

I'll also ignore the bs incendiary rds and oversize mags, too, thanks just the same.

reply to post by Zeptepi


Only one problem, the Glock 17 is SEMI-auto, one bullet for one pull of the trigger. As far as I know there is no way to convert it to full auto. On the other hand, the Glock 18 is full auto but it at least in this country sale is restricted to military and police. I've seen that guy before and he is probably Russian mob himself or son of russian mobster with ties to their military. Cool video though.

Edit:

Apparently you can convert a G17 to full auto but it would be a stupid thing to do. The G18 has a selector switch to fire semi or full auto making it a better choice if you can get one. And yes, a good gunsmith could probably add a selector switch to a G17 but I bet the finished product would cost more than a G18.

due to problems with production of different frames and parts, it's highly likely that the G17 can be easily converted to the G18 full auto format.

reply to post by linkedbelts

wear concealed armor, carry swift to insert Norton Earvalve plugs, know how to find/use cover, and use the right ammo in the pistol (Corbon's 100 gr PowRBall is the best commercially available, but I load my own).

Are you related to Gecko45? :p

In the event that you find yourself in an SD encounter you won't have time to stop and put in ear plugs. I have been in multiple encounters that required the presence of a gun. Not once was there time to retrieve and insert ear plugs. If you're pulling your gun it is because grave bodily injury or death is imminent. If you have time to stop and put in ear plugs you have time to avoid the situation.

Assess Disengage Deescelate Evade Escape
Only if all of those options have been exhausted or denied is force the best option. If you are taking time to insert earplugs it shows you failed to use either of the "e"s. In other words, you set yourself up to look like you wanted the fight.

Corbon Pow'rBall is not recomended by any professional that studies ballistics or self defense shootings. The only light weight 9mm regularly recomended is the 115gr Corbon DPX. Even then it is loaded to +P or +P+ levels. It is pretty much accepted by most people that study ballistics (including the FBI and IWBA) that in 124gr 9mm you still need +P to achieve sufficient penetration and expansion. 147gr is the only 9mm weight recomended at standard pressure levels.

I have only ran across one trainer or professional that okayed rolling your own rounds for defence. The long and short of it is this, forensics can't back you up if the weapon is empty. You can't prove you weren't creating super hot loads. You also can't prove that you made super soft loads to avoid overpenetration. So, you might shoot some guy with a knife at 3 feet and the lack of residue point to you being 20 feet away. With the forensics working against you the perp's story gains more traction.

If you're using an over the counter round, forensic techs can test a load from the same line of rounds. Given the consistency of modern manufacturing the rounds signatures should be very similar. That puts the forensics on your side and adds credibility to your testimony. If you were just involved in a shooting you are going to need every bit of corroborating evidence you can find.

90+% of the time, you won''t have to hit an attacker with a bullet, if you just get the gun out and ready in time for him to see it, and if you are smart enough to leave him an "out".

Most people forget that this is the basic truth of the matter. Very few criminals are looking to engage in a gunfight. The only person that is probably looking for it less is the legal gun owner.


By the way, I flagged your post before the one I quoted here. I think you made some good points that a lot of people forget or ignore.

It takes LESS time to insert plugs, retreived from a "clamshell" holder on the belt, than it does to speedload a revolver. Do you tell sixgun fans not to bother with a speedloader? If you can get to cover, you can insert earplugs. If you can run and get a longarm, you can insert earplugs on the way. So the OP is correct as he stated it, even if he left out the real explanation of what is possible.

I did google RBCD and MagSafe as the guy suggested a few days ago, and lo and behold, he is correct about 2000+ fps .45 ammo, altho it is sold only to cops.

Originally posted by Six6Six
Always someone with a gun thread....so disappointing that people are now so detached from
life that using a gun is the preferred method to kill. So plain, so cowardly, so borrrrring!

I prefer the use of Number 7 scalpel (two of). Or a gutting knife, Serrated on one side.

Again, you can apply the same technique as the gun,,,,

One slice to the throat (single swipe)

or


Double thrust to the abdomen. Your choice.


My favorite would be (obviously on a pig or something similar for practice) Single thrust to the abdomen and single swipe to the throat.

No gun needed. Much more inventive this way.

I can't decide what category this post falls into...it's either troll, or idiot.
There are basically two groups of situations in the world. Those that require the use of lethal force, and those that do not. If lethal force is required, 'inventive' doesn't mean anything, nor does 'boring'. If lethal force is required, then you apply lethal force...quickly, accurately, and in whatever amount is required, full stop.

If lethal force is not required, then you have no business waving around a knife, handgun, long arm, or whatever your weapon of choice is.

Failure to follow those guidelines is a gross abrogation of your responsibility as a weapon owner. Using less-than-lethal force where it's needed places your life (and / or the lives of your loved ones) in needless danger. Waving around a weapon when it's not needed, likewise. If you want style points and interesting composition, take up a career in the performing arts, but leave lethal weapons out of it, thanks.

reply to post by requirement


RBCD and Mag Safe are both sold to the general public. You can get the Mag Safe at Ammo To Go. You might want to check some tests on them first. The reason police don't use this type of ammo is because it is highly ineffective.

RBCD vs The Box O' Truth

Mag Safe Inadequate

Prefragmented Bullets Inadequate

As a PFB disintegrates and the subcaliber projectiles are released to penetrate further, the multiple wound tracks produced by the penetrating fragments weaken the integrity of resilient soft tissues. In the area of maximum temporary cavity, which is usually located within the first 5-6 inches of handgun bullet penetration, these smaller wound tracks can be torn open by the subsequent stretching of soft tissues, worsening the injury. It is important to point out that there will be SOME tearing of soft tissues in the vicinity where the multiple subprojectiles begin to disperse, in the area where their separate wound paths are located close to one another. This added disruption is probably best described as a modest increase in wound trauma. But, due to the shallow location on the wound track where this increased disruption occurs (within the first 5-6 inches of penetration), a PFB is not going provide you any advantage in wounding effectiveness when compared to the wound trauma produced by a conventional JHP bullet that meets IWBA Handgun Ammunition Specifications.

Originally posted by Rebel21
I say a single shot with a 10mm or a .45 is fine if its well placed. With semiautomatic rifles i say just keep shooting until they drop.

Yup, as u said just keep shooting.

reply to post by linkedbelts

You are right in what you say about former soldiers not being competent shooters under pressure of competition.. In my day only about 1 in 10 people in the military were exposed to combat and probably less that 40% of them actually saw what they were shooting at. On top of that we were trained with M-14s and handed M-16s for 2 weeks during staging and had to attempt to get the dope on the sights with little ammo or time... When we got in country we were again handed M-16s and no range time unless at an artillery base on lines we'd be able to half assed sight them in but for the most part it was full automatic, praying and spraying... I was fortunate to have been assigned to a company that a SSgt that had been an instructor at the range at Camp Pendleton and a C.O. that had come up from the enlisted ranks that made sure that we had our rifles sighted in properly..... Marksmanship isn't taken lightly in the Marine Corps and we were always under stress until just a few days before qualifying in Boot Camp, which is something the Army or law enforcement had to go through...I'll admit that the guys that shoot tiny groups on paper targets on a regular basis can do that much better than I can but when the targets are alive, running and at times headed toward us I'd put down more hogs with less ammo than three of them combined.. My issue weapon was a 1911A1 and KaBar knife but there was always going to be someone that was in no condition to be firing an M-16 whenever I had need for one.