What Happens After Science??

I am one of those people who believe in a highly futuristic vision of the future. That being the case, if we end up using AI machines and our free time to answer all the mysteries in the universe, would the next step fall into the realm of impossibilities or "magic" as in breaking the laws of physics? If humans do indeed figure out everything there is to figure out, than I would think the Perpetual Motion machine and Doctor Who's magic time lord box would be the only remaining mysteries left to solve in the universe. In this type of future, I wouldn't underestimate our ancestors.

As humans we have built in curiosities about the world and the universe. Our questions, inventions, and wonder will never cease to exist. There is always another mystery to solve, another impossibility to make possible. Another law to discover, and another law to break. I believe one day we will make all impossibilities today become possible with exponential progress in technology.

I hate to be rude, but everything you have said is obvious... progress happens and will continue to do so.

Oh, and what is a futuristic view of the future?

The last bastion of wonder in the world of human questioning will always be that of existence.

Since the dawn of philosophy and spirituality; the question of whether or not life, as we perceive it, is merely a dream has plagued the minds of the thoughtful. It is a fundamental question that challenges not the mechanics of our world - but our very perception of it. As such - no amount of science (based on testing the mechanics of the world perceived) can truly serve a satisfying answer.

Suppose we find evidence that we are in some kind of computer/dream simulation of sorts. What's to prevent that from being a dream/simulation? And so on, and so forth.

In the end - I think the question is best answered by one of philosophy's most powerful concepts: "I think; therefor, I am." It has been the conclusion reached by many philosophers, spiritualists (and adopted into religious beliefs centering around common spiritual concepts) through time and geography.

Am I real? Or is the text before you merely the product of a random universe? Or, perhaps my words are merely facets of your own mind being expressed through the subjectivity of the observer principle (I admit, I am stretching those physics concepts a bit - "me am say big words to sound smart.")

At the end of the day - only you can decide whether or not it is real, and how to react to the situation you find yourself in. If you believe the people you interact with are other people and treat them as such, then how is it any different than them being real? If you treat it all as an illusion - a tool for your own use - then why should it be anything other than that?

Now, that isn't to say you are going to summon a phoenix or something (as bad ass as that would be) - but that you choose to make of the world what you will.

Personally, I believe that there is a method to satisfy any madness. If you can think it up - there is some way to make it happen (though it may not function exactly as you envision it).

That said... from my perspective - there are 'laws of physics' that do not get to be circumvented very easily. Even in the world of "magic" - I believe there must be rules and principles. "Real" things function and interact with the universe according to rules and reliable mechanics. "Magichanics," as I call them, have no place in reality. We don't get to make up and change rules as we go along.

Not sure if I'm making sense... because I'm not part of the whole "if we simply believe something will work with all of our hearts, it will!" crowd. Nor should my words be construed to mean such.

reply to post by jjf3rd77


Humans might discover it is impossible for them to find all out and that the end of science and human philosophy is simply the beginning of the realms of the spiritual which again its experiential exhaustion would probably touch on the beginnings of an ever higher reality and understanding of the cosmos.

Originally posted by Planet teleX
I hate to be rude, but everything you have said is obvious... progress happens and will continue to do so.

Oh, and what is a futuristic view of the future?

Not one where it is destroyed and technology advances into seemingly magical devices.

Before that happens people will destroy themselves with the neat gadgets they invented.

Originally posted by 547000
Before that happens people will destroy themselves with the neat gadgets they invented.

I believe this has been a commonly expressed concern ever since it was discovered hard objects (such as rocks and clubs) were more effective than fists and teeth.

The human race is quite arrogant, believing it has the power to decide its own future insofar as to think itself capable of exterminating itself.

We will be around so long as nature permits it. No shorter, no longer.

Originally posted by Aim64C

Originally posted by 547000
Before that happens people will destroy themselves with the neat gadgets they invented.

I believe this has been a commonly expressed concern ever since it was discovered hard objects (such as rocks and clubs) were more effective than fists and teeth.

The human race is quite arrogant, believing it has the power to decide its own future insofar as to think itself capable of exterminating itself.

We will be around so long as nature permits it. No shorter, no longer.

More often than not I agree with your posts but you might want to reconsider that one. Its all a matter of the concentration of power in the hands of individuals. When you get to the point that an individual can wield in his hand the power to destroy the planet I think our future would be short lived.

We have survived the nuclear age so far due to tight control on the materials necessary to create a fission weapon and the fact that despite their power an individual weapon cant extinct us.

At some point in the near future we will be entirely capable of ending ourselves. How we deal with it will determine whether we walk among the stars or become another evolutionary dead end.

Originally posted by Aim64C

Originally posted by 547000
Before that happens people will destroy themselves with the neat gadgets they invented.

I believe this has been a commonly expressed concern ever since it was discovered hard objects (such as rocks and clubs) were more effective than fists and teeth.

The human race is quite arrogant, believing it has the power to decide its own future insofar as to think itself capable of exterminating itself.

We will be around so long as nature permits it. No shorter, no longer.

Really, you don't think it's possible to die in a nuclear winter or worse?

reply to post by justwokeup

Its all a matter of the concentration of power in the hands of individuals. When you get to the point that an individual can wield in his hand the power to destroy the planet I think our future would be short lived.

The power to destroy planets comes with the power to relocate.

I'll elaborate on this within my response to some of your later points.

We have survived the nuclear age so far due to tight control on the materials necessary to create a fission weapon and the fact that despite their power an individual weapon cant extinct us.

The world's nuclear arsenal is horribly insufficient to "destroy the planet." It could all be targeted at the U.S. (including our own arsenal), and still be horribly insufficient to destroy more than about 50% of the population. A huge portion, to be sure - but much of the rural and suburban communities will wade right on through a nuclear holocaust.

At some point in the near future we will be entirely capable of ending ourselves. How we deal with it will determine whether we walk among the stars or become another evolutionary dead end.

To put it simply - while some asshole is looking for a way to crap on everyone's parade, another will be looking for ways to defend against it or to evade it, entirely. I will not pretend to imagine something with the practical capacity to destroy an entire planet - such power is on a scale that is simply not fathomable by today's standards. However - long before we have the practical capacity to end life on the planet, we will have created orbiting space stations with self-sustaining communities and industries. We will likely even be searching for other planets (or have given up on planets, entirely, and simply embarked upon massive-scale construction of artificial habitats).

We are part of a process that is far larger than ourselves. Even if I so chose to destroy humanity - it is not possible for me to do so. Some people will survive due to their creativity, reactivity, luck, etc.

The only thing with the potential to wipe us out is a cosmic event - a gamma ray burst, asteroid impact (and a massive one, at that - something more like the size of a small planet), spontaneous super-nova of the sun (even though that's not "supposed" to happen... it's not like our opinion on plausibility carries much weight in the end).

However... I do hope that human beings never completely lose this illogical fear of self-extermination. It is quite interesting for a sentient being - while arrogant and narcissistic, it is, to believe that we have the power to inflict our own end... it is also critical of our behavior and wary of what power we do have. We are a species fixated on our extinction from the dawn of time.

Perhaps it is a sort of self-awareness that makes us sentient - the awareness that we will, eventually, perish (on an individual level). A sort of collective concept of this is the end of one's own society - many ancient civilizations forecast their own end (with varying degrees of success/failure). We continue this trend to this day.

I suppose the ultimate irony, however, is that I am a survivalist by nature. I have put serious thought into post-apocalyptic scenarios (arrogantly presuming I will survive, of course) - from the basic to the complex. I am fixated on the idea that it will all one day "come crashing down" and I will be left with the responsibility of helping what people I can rebuild.

And, here I am, stating how our paranoia that we have the ability to "end ourselves" is a sort of cultural bogeyman.

I believe my point has been made, however. I am tired - probably shouldn't even post this, as I will read it some time later and realize I could have done a much better job... but if I listened to what I told myself, I would be unbearably intelligent.

At the point we know everything in relation to technology, we will put our brains into robots, computer simulations of what we think heaven is like. If we can't prove god, we will make and be gods.

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by justwokeup

 

Its all a matter of the concentration of power in the hands of individuals. When you get to the point that an individual can wield in his hand the power to destroy the planet I think our future would be short lived.

The power to destroy planets comes with the power to relocate.

I'll elaborate on this within my response to some of your later points.

We have survived the nuclear age so far due to tight control on the materials necessary to create a fission weapon and the fact that despite their power an individual weapon cant extinct us.

The world's nuclear arsenal is horribly insufficient to "destroy the planet." It could all be targeted at the U.S. (including our own arsenal), and still be horribly insufficient to destroy more than about 50% of the population. A huge portion, to be sure - but much of the rural and suburban communities will wade right on through a nuclear holocaust.

At some point in the near future we will be entirely capable of ending ourselves. How we deal with it will determine whether we walk among the stars or become another evolutionary dead end.

To put it simply - while some asshole is looking for a way to crap on everyone's parade, another will be looking for ways to defend against it or to evade it, entirely. I will not pretend to imagine something with the practical capacity to destroy an entire planet - such power is on a scale that is simply not fathomable by today's standards. However - long before we have the practical capacity to end life on the planet, we will have created orbiting space stations with self-sustaining communities and industries. We will likely even be searching for other planets (or have given up on planets, entirely, and simply embarked upon massive-scale construction of artificial habitats).

We are part of a process that is far larger than ourselves. Even if I so chose to destroy humanity - it is not possible for me to do so. Some people will survive due to their creativity, reactivity, luck, etc.

The only thing with the potential to wipe us out is a cosmic event - a gamma ray burst, asteroid impact (and a massive one, at that - something more like the size of a small planet), spontaneous super-nova of the sun (even though that's not "supposed" to happen... it's not like our opinion on plausibility carries much weight in the end).

However... I do hope that human beings never completely lose this illogical fear of self-extermination. It is quite interesting for a sentient being - while arrogant and narcissistic, it is, to believe that we have the power to inflict our own end... it is also critical of our behavior and wary of what power we do have. We are a species fixated on our extinction from the dawn of time.

Perhaps it is a sort of self-awareness that makes us sentient - the awareness that we will, eventually, perish (on an individual level). A sort of collective concept of this is the end of one's own society - many ancient civilizations forecast their own end (with varying degrees of success/failure). We continue this trend to this day.

I suppose the ultimate irony, however, is that I am a survivalist by nature. I have put serious thought into post-apocalyptic scenarios (arrogantly presuming I will survive, of course) - from the basic to the complex. I am fixated on the idea that it will all one day "come crashing down" and I will be left with the responsibility of helping what people I can rebuild.

And, here I am, stating how our paranoia that we have the ability to "end ourselves" is a sort of cultural bogeyman.

I believe my point has been made, however. I am tired - probably shouldn't even post this, as I will read it some time later and realize I could have done a much better job... but if I listened to what I told myself, I would be unbearably intelligent.

Nice post.

The point is that we must not let our capacity for mass destruction exceed our ability to police access to it and its use. We've managed it so far.

I guess the difference between us is I don't think its inevitable we will always manage it and I think it will get harder as time goes on. Guess i'm just a glass half empty kind of guy

What comes after science?

Well probably the only question science will never ever be able to explain, unless non locaality is accepted within consciousness as well:

To accurately and honestly explain where the actual "consciousness" and "mind" is.

Science has proven to date its not in the brain.

Experiements have shown even if nearly the entire brain is removed consciousness, memory and personality continues.

When science has answered this it will no longer be "science" but "truth".

Elf

reply to post by jjf3rd77

I am one of those people who believe in a highly futuristic vision of the future. That being the case, if we end up using AI machines and our free time to answer all the mysteries in the universe, would the next step fall into the realm of impossibilities or "magic" as in breaking the laws of physics? If humans do indeed figure out everything there is to figure out, than I would think the Perpetual Motion machine and Doctor Who's magic time lord box would be the only remaining mysteries left to solve in the universe. In this type of future, I wouldn't underestimate our ancestors.

Imagine if you will, the ability to manipulate energy and matter at will. Whether through technology or some more organic means of harnessing, once this can be accomplished, nothing is left that is impossible.

Imagine that as well because our concepts of things we term 'supernatural' or 'paranormal' suddenly become as natural and as normal as anything else. There will be no such item as 'extraordinary'.

If things like UFOs and life after physical death do indeed exist, they exist NOT as out of the ordinary but as entirely native.

It is only our ignorance that makes them seem so special.

I have always wondered if somekind of 4-d storage device could ever be invented that can hold physical 3-d objects. For example. A small 4-d storage device would be the size and depth of an A4 piece of paper in which you could insert into it a couple of books. Much larger devices could form warehouses for all kinds of industries.

We will reach a stagnant point in our evolution and our lives will become really boring so we will find ways to entertain ourselves. Perhaps experience a "grandfather simulation" where out of curiosity you would want to experience what it would be like to live during the time where the human race was starting a technological revolution?

Do you ever notice anything odd about your "reality"?

Originally posted by Tindalos2013
I have always wondered if somekind of 4-d storage device could ever be invented that can hold physical 3-d objects. For example. A small 4-d storage device would be the size and depth of an A4 piece of paper in which you could insert into it a couple of books. Much larger devices could form warehouses for all kinds of industries.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
— Arthur C. Clarke

I think before people reach an ultimate end to technological progression they will find a comfortable point where they will want for nothing.

To give you an example: A world where you are basically a god and can literally do anything you want to do. The energy needed may drain stars of the universe of everything they've got but who can stop you? You are having a blast building worlds made of chocolate cake, creating gold and diamond cities.

The point being that you as what could presumably be classed as a level 4+ civilization on the kardeshev scale are even far beyond that of a typical post scarcity society. The things that humans have labord over for thousands or millions of years by that time will be meaningless to you. So as a result you find yourself doing he absolutely absurd.

Would you like to know what it is like to be a sun, eaten by lions? Or would you prefer to be a sea monste for a time and eat your friends for fun?

A perfect example of how ridiculous and actually disturbing such a time can be is best expressed in a 4 part book series by Michael Moorcock called "The Dancers at the End of Time"

They are basically humans who are able to do anything thing they want. At the end of the series they escape the destruction of the universe by trapping themselves inside a time pocket. It is a very strange book and well worth the read.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dancers_at_the_End_of_Time]>>>>>Check it out

It is very important that scientific development is followed by our own evolution and mastery of self. An intense materialism is probably not enough if a civilisation is to be advanced beyond a certain point because not all of the aspects of human existence are addressed therefore creating a state of disequilibrium.

reply to post by Aim64C


We are part of nature also remember, I agree that ultimately our fate is in the hands of Earth and nature. However we cannot underestimate our stupidity and need for constant war, these are the days when we have clubs capable of destroying a lot of the living species on the planet in the space of a day or so.