POW/MIA Families Speak Out

They aren't happy with Kerry or McCain.

www.powmiafamiliesagainstjohnkerry.com...

Excerpt -

John Kerry abandoned our husbands, sons, fathers, and brothers in favor of trade and normalization of relations with Vietnam. His actions paved the way for the further abandonment of POWs and MIAs from World War II, the Korean War, and the Cold War.

John Kerry, as chairman of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, ordered the destruction of committee documents, blocked avenues of investigation, and misrepresented progress on the POW/MIA issue to justify lifting of the trade embargo against Vietnam.

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I don't know if what they say is true or not, but
they think it is. Go to the site to read why they say these things.



[edit on 8/26/2004 by FlyersFan]

I agree, Kerry has no right to claim to be a hero, he should be apologizing, not the President.

Honestly, I have a hard time believing that John McCain
would leave anyone behind. He spent so much time and
so much of his blood in a Vietnam prison ...

But these folks say they have proof.

Let's face it. There are no POW's alive in Viet Nam, and the Vietnamese government has shown plenty of cooperation in allowing search parties and exhumation teams into Viet Nam. I've been there, it's easy as hell to go anywhere you want, all you need to do is bring a shovel. And the jungle eats away remains pretty fast. And as relations with Viet Nam continue to improve, so to does access to records and sites.

It boils down to progress in international relations and reconciliation versus some very sensitive and painful memories, and hopes cruelly being kept alive by those with a political agenda.

-koji K.

EDIT: another person who claims to have the facts: www.miafacts.org...

[edit on 26-8-2004 by koji_K]

Koji_k You have been there? Would you tell us about it?
I was wondering if it is as 'western' as people say. Some
folks say it's almost a vacation spot, while others say it's
still back in the 1940's and dark and dingy. How was it
when you were there?

Koji_k, you lost me when I went to the MIA page you linked and the first thing I saw as a "daily Bush Body count," this is nothing more than an obvious Democratic supporter who wants to disparage the current administration. I've no doubt that you have been to vietnam, but face it, how do you know that there are no POW's left alive? I agree with you that the longer time marches on the less likely we are to finding an alive POW. Could you please state your political perference's, I use to be a Democrate, but now I have become a Republican. I was once a member like Zell Miller, but I could not hold on to my family tradition, when the democratic party went wide left.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Koji_k You have been there? Would you tell us about it?
I was wondering if it is as 'western' as people say. Some
folks say it's almost a vacation spot, while others say it's
still back in the 1940's and dark and dingy. How was it
when you were there?

Well, first off I should say I'm not a veteran (too young for that), so my experience was that of a typical tourist, nothing more. That out of the way, Viet Nam is truly beautiful. It's not very developed outside the two big cities, Saigon (or Ho Chi Minh city as it's offically called- although most of the locals surprisingly still call it Saigon) and Hanoi. Of those two, Hanoi was by far the most beautiful. It has an old Chinese quarter and an old French Colonial quarter, among other parts, and they are very atmospheric.

Saigon was more of a financial city, where the bulk of all the development and economic reform seems to be going on. It's a little less cultural and more seedy than Hanoi.

It's a "developing" country... you can basically find all the amenities and products of the west in the larger towns and cities, but the standard of living is much much lower than in the west. That said, there didn't appear to be a terribly large amount of poverty (there was some, to be sure). There were a lot of touts and prostitutes, but I didn't see too many outright beggars or shantytowns. The streets were surprisingly safe, also (probably because of the communist rule.. I hear Russia became much more dangerous once the KGB stopped patrolling the streets).

Probably the nicest part of Viet Nam are the people. I met no-one who had anything bad to say about the Americans, which really surprised me. Generally, they seem to be more focused on their future rather than dwelling in the past. In the south I met several people who claimed they fought alongside the americans, and still loved america. I met one man who was finally allowed to leave Viet Nam to visit his kids in the states who he hadnt seen since the war, and he was very excited as you can imagine. In the north while there weren't as many people expressing a love for america, no one seemed surprised or resentful towards me, and everyone was willing to have a friendly conversation about history and how they felt the important thing for their country was to move on.

I wish I could post some of my pictures! I need a scanner though as I didnt have a digital camera when I went. I would say it can easily be a vacation spot (as it is for many tourists), but it certainly no caribbean island. It's a heck of a lot different from how Eastern Europe used to be in that there seems to be free access to things western (including the internet) over there. Most Vietnamese basically take the attitude that if it's something that can help their country progress, it's not something they should fear or keep out, it seemed. But at the same time you always feel just how privileged you are coming from the west compared to these people. Things are definately improving though... everywhere I looked there were new buildings and business being constructed.

In keeping with the thread topic, I should also say there were a lot of americans there who were veterans or people involved in POW/MIA projects, and they seemed to have no complaints about how the government was treating them and allowing them access to sites.

The most beautiful town I visited was a small place near Da Nang called Hoi An. I could have stayed there for months (sadly I was only in Vietnam for 2 and a half weeks).

-koji K.

Originally posted by jrsdls
Koji_k, you lost me when I went to the MIA page you linked and the first thing I saw as a "daily Bush Body count," this is nothing more than an obvious Democratic supporter who wants to disparage the current administration. I've no doubt that you have been to vietnam, but face it, how do you know that there are no POW's left alive? I agree with you that the longer time marches on the less likely we are to finding an alive POW. Could you please state your political perference's, I use to be a Democrate, but now I have become a Republican. I was once a member like Zell Miller, but I could not hold on to my family tradition, when the democratic party went wide left.

I'm currently a Democrat, although I feel that the more moderate elements of the Republican party would probably make for better leadership than the Democrats at the moment. My problem with the Republicans is that they've let themselves become run by the extreme right rather than listening to more moderate members like Powell or McCain.

As for the site, he may be partisan, but he is also a Vietnam vet himself. He's not the only person who holds his views, too. The site has a lot of links to other less partisan sources. I don't think the Republicans have the monopoly on the truth about POWs in Vietnam.

-koji K.

[edit on 26-8-2004 by koji_K]

Koji_K, I am a member of the moderate Republican party, and I agree with you, I've no doubt that the page has some interesting views on it. But it's hard to take anything he says as being non-biased because of it's bash Bush message. I don't think that only Republicans have the truth about Vietnam, I have a lot of good friends who are Democrats and Vietnam Veterns. But in full disclosure, all have stated that they will cross party lines and vote for Bush. mainly because they all seem to loath John Kerry. They also remember 9-11 and believe that Bush would be better at fighting terrorist, than pacifing them in order to have them go somewhere else. I don't believe that the Republican party is run by the extreme right, if that was so, Powell would not be Secretary of State. I believe that the Repulican party does lean right, but not as far right as the Democrats lean left.

Originally posted by jrsdls
I don't believe that the Republican party is run by the extreme right

4 years ago Cheney said that he didn't believe in a Constitutional
Amendment about Gay Marriage. He just restated that this past week
using different words. If the Republican party were run by the extreme
right, that wouldn't have been allowed to be said. Guiliani, who will
most likely run in 2008, is very much against a Constitutional Amendment
about Gay Marriage. He has same-sex couple friends that he spends
much time with and he isn't homo-phobic. If the republican party were
run by the extreme right, Guiliani would be buried in the dust, instead
of being talked about for a serious run in 2008.

But back to the subject of Vietnam and POW/MIAs. I doubt McCain would
let it lay. If there were evidence he'd go in and get the job done. He
poured many years and much blood into the war and his captivity. I
can't see him leaving anyone over there to be treated the way he was.

I could be wrong, but if something came up, I think he'd jump on it.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by jrsdls
I don't believe that the Republican party is run by the extreme right

4 years ago Cheney said that he didn't believe in a Constitutional
Amendment about Gay Marriage. He just restated that this past week
using different words. If the Republican party were run by the extreme
right, that wouldn't have been allowed to be said. Guiliani, who will
most likely run in 2008, is very much against a Constitutional Amendment
about Gay Marriage. He has same-sex couple friends that he spends
much time with and he isn't homo-phobic. If the republican party were
run by the extreme right, Guiliani would be buried in the dust, instead
of being talked about for a serious run in 2008.

But back to the subject of Vietnam and POW/MIAs. I doubt McCain would
let it lay. If there were evidence he'd go in and get the job done. He
poured many years and much blood into the war and his captivity. I
can't see him leaving anyone over there to be treated the way he was.

I could be wrong, but if something came up, I think he'd jump on it.

i agree completely about mccain. i actually made the exact same point in another thread the other day. i cant believe mccain would act against the interests of POWs... both for personal reasons and political.

-koji K.

I will vote for Kerry but that does not mean I approve of everything he has done. Our country abandoned our Vietnam vets long before our involvement in Vietnam was over. The people who supported the war were not there to greet their heroes, they abandoned them and blamed it on the protesters who tried to stop the war. A few misguided people did not understand in the protest to hate the war but love the warrior, especially back then when many had no choice (draft). Hubby (age 20) volunteered and went (Vietnam was over mostly but he was there during the fall of Saigon) and was attacked in an airport in California by some nut case woman screaming baby killer and beating him in the chest, back then you had to wear your uniform while traveling. Now one of our POW's did come home long after it was declared that Vietnam had no more POW's, here are two websites about his story.

www.thirdmarines.com...

www.usvetdsp.com...

Originally posted by goose
I will vote for Kerry but that does not mean I approve of everything he has done. Our country abandoned our Vietnam vets long before our involvement in Vietnam was over. The people who supported the war were not there to greet their heroes, they abandoned them and blamed it on the protesters who tried to stop the war. A few misguided people did not understand in the protest to hate the war but love the warrior, especially back then when many had no choice (draft). Hubby (age 20) volunteered and went (Vietnam was over mostly but he was there during the fall of Saigon) and was attacked in an airport in California by some nut case woman screaming baby killer and beating him in the chest, back then you had to wear your uniform while traveling. Now one of our POW's did come home long after it was declared that Vietnam had no more POW's, here are two websites about his story.

www.thirdmarines.com...

www.usvetdsp.com...

this story sounds kind of fishy to say the least.

"... McCain accused Garwood of being a traitor and a liar and continuing the anguish of the POW/MIA families by "lying" about having seen live Americans. "These efforts and other constitute an enduring betrayal of his country. And anyone who may be manipulating Garwood for their own ends is a co-conspirator in this betrayal."

McCain's version of Garwood's imprisonment is that Garwood took up arms against American forces, guarded other American prisoners with rifles, used a bullhorn to encourage American soldiers to surrender and made propaganda broadcasts for the Vietnamese."

koji K.