A Question for all Christians, from a fellow Christian

Originally posted by KJV1611
wow...there are some strange "christian beliefs" out there....hint, hint, jmdewey60....

Yes I do, which is that real Christians are supposed to be of a higher moral character than non-Christians.
What I find strange is those pretending to be Christians changing the definition so they can take the name without taking the character. But not so strange really and just human nature and the sort of thing to be expected from unrepentant and unregenerate sinners who use Jesus as their beast of burden.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I'm with you. We need look no further. He is the first and the last, the Alpha and Omega.

Simply coming into the realization and recognition of what this means brings about repentance and an "I love you too!"

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

The "suffering servant" is Jesus Christ.

It's something in Isaiah. That was my point. People can make different things of it and Paul used it to illustrate the concepts to describe what Jesus did.
These are the facts.
If you want to take it as literally being Jesus, that is your interpretation, but there is at least a loose correlation between the person described by Isaiah, and the person described in the Gospels.

edit on 16-9-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Lol, Isaiah was prophesying about the Messiah. Jesus Christ is that "suffering servant". Peter, Paul, and Isaiah were talking about the Lord.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

I'm with you. We need look no further. He is the first and the last, the Alpha and Omega.

Simply coming into the realization and recognition of what this means brings about repentance and an "I love you too!"

God's goodness leads us to repentance. Yes, indeed.

Regarding the Revelation of John, I think that as loving Christians, we ought to spend more time focusing on it's magnificent ending, and from there, place ourselves at the new beginning.

The death and destruction part, for all we know, could be intended to be viewed as some sort of mystical, kabbalistic "dark night of the soul". Personally, I think it's horrific prophesies were meant to drive us first insane and then into sanity, as a test, since anything as worthwhile as a free flow of living water, presented by the Spirit and Bride, comes only after a price has been paid, and after all, that price was paid in full at Golgotha.

Why should we wait, and what are we waiting for?

The white stone has already been given, and God already seeks to make his home with us..

Pre-tribulation to tribulation, x # of days to rapture... bah! These literalist interpretations were probably sown into the Protestant churches by Jesuits, to sow seeds of confusion, and dissension, while at the same time shutting up the kingdom of heaven and the resurrected life in men's faces, and forestalling the coming of the true kingdom life which requires no intermediary or regulation beyond that of the living Spirit of the Living God..
"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven"

John the Baptist is not Elijah - the prophecy Gabriel gave is that he goes before the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah. That is completely different than saying, they are one and the same. They both had the exact same spirit in them, but even John denied being Elijah. According to Jesus, there has not been a better person born of a woman, than John, so be careful who you go calling a liar.

I'm a christian and I don't think the servant Isaiah is talking about is Jesus. The branch is him, yes and the young woman who gives birth to the child is about him, but 52&53 - no way. In fact, Isaiah doesn't use the word Messiah. So before anyone goes laughing at anothers beliefs, you need to carefully consider how it is "you" know what it is you think you know.

'As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus gave them orders not to tell anyone what they had seen until the Son of Man had risen from the dead. They kept the matter to themselves, discussing what “rising from the dead” meant.

And they asked him, “Why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”

Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected? But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him.”' Mark 9:9-13

I think what this thread needs is a serious discussion on what it means to "rise from the dead." Jesus tried to explain it to Martha, but apparently some of you want to sweep it under the rug like he didn't say what he said:

'Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”' John 11:23-27

I am is present tense. The spirit of God is like a seed inside us, that grows (Isaiah 43:19).

Do any of you even believe it's Jesus who is talking to Isaiah? He is the same "Word of God" found in both old and new testaments - that is why he says "my servant will act wisely." No servant is greater than his master.

Jesus is the master, John the Baptist is the servant and he goes before the Lord preparing the way.

"But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him." Mark 9

So, exactly where is it written about what will happen to Elijah?

The answer is the servant songs.

Jesus is actually referring to John, when he answers the disciples, but what he means is they have the same spirit and power of God.

"To whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" Isa 53.

"For the Lords hand was with him." Luke 1 (Not on him - with him).

reply to post by NewAgeMan

. . .what are we waiting for?

So Revelation is a sanity test?
I think of it as so many layers, one on top of the other and all happening at the same time.
(everything in the visions do not happen all at once, exactly, in the stories, because they have to be acted out to make their point)
So then there is nothing to wait for and we are not to spend our time sitting about waiting for something.

When Jesus commands us to be awake or watch, the word used is agrupneo and it means to 'be sleepless or keep awake.'

He is referring to our spiritual state, not our physical state.

To be awakened your spirit must be revived and then raised up, and that is found in the power of the resurrection.

How does God revive our slumbering spirit? Elijah/sleep paralysis. Not only does Elijah's funtion prove God has a sense of humor but nothing quite like the fear of the Lord. So Elijah is sent forth to turn the hearts of the children to their father's and that of the father's to their children.

It gets worse or better depending on how you look at it.

How are we raised up?

We have to look at how Jesus raised the dead to understand what John does in preparing the way. In one case of him raising the dead - he touched a brier or whatever it was they were carrying the young boy on. The other case was the young girl whom he took by the hand. He raised her, then told them to give her something to eat (this mystery is found in the last supper/eucharist).

John goes before the Lord, to announce "Here is your God." But I would bet my last dollar, that you would do what I did and reject him. But what choice do you have?

He doesn't have a head.

THAT will turn the heart of the children to their father's and the father's to their children.

(Remember it's Jesus talking here)

See, my servant will act wisely;
he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
Just as there were many who were appalled at him—
his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being
and his form marred beyond human likeness—
so he will sprinkle many nations,
and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
For what they were not told, they will see,
and what they have not heard, they will understand. Isa 52

He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
He is despised and rejected by men, Isa 53

Again... the suffering servant has no head. There are couple historians who recorded things about John the Baptist. His body and head were burried seperately - one with the rich, one with the poor. One account has that evil woman keeping his head for awhile and doing awful things to it (stabbing the tounge). John was led like a lamb to the slaughter and he was silent before his shearers. Jesus answered a question and spoke at his trial and as he hung on the cross.


Sounds a bit out there. But I am telling you the truth. He took me by the hand and I've never been so frightened in my entire life. It's not just me. I've looked high and low for others and I've found a few cases. Two girls in Texas, a group of people in WVA, a case in Indiana.

I can't help what I saw and I can't help what I know. It becomes a problem if I don't tell others what I've seen. We are supposed to share our dreams, visions and prophecies.

So to answer the OP's question:

Yes, Elijah has come. He does it all the time. It's just noone recognizes him.

John the Baptist - same power and spirit, different modus operandi.

More people need to stay awake and watch. Follow the actual commands that Jesus gave.