Greek austerity protests turn ugly

ats search only yielded posts of the last riots, so here it goes
www.youtube.com... (vid id not working)

recently greece has been heating up and bailouts and hopeful words just dont cut it. austerity will make people angry. more often than not, the ones at the top of the totem pole are unaffected. but as you can see, those that are affected are furious

this should be obvious that we cannot just raise taxes, cut spending, and wait for the loans everyone seems to think we need

to me this only foreshadows the near future here in the us.
would love your guys' opinions on this. is this going to get worse? or are they just experiencing a hiccup?



i know this is in greek, im sorry. but this does show the everyday people involved in the protests. there is a large diversity


and here is a good explanation of why they cant just "leave the eurozone"
but they better be quick about it, aye?



www.infowars.com...
say what you will about alex jones, but he gets the info out there ASAP. its how i found all of this info in the first place

this just brings me back to may where the cia warned if austerity continued it would lead to a coup, and complete rebellion. it appears the ones in charge are completely ready to deal with that. we will see how it unfolds, but its pretty much official. greece is about to revolt

reply to post by Venomilk


I think Greece is a microcosm of what the rest of the world is about to experience.. Austerity measures aren't going to work.. Try telling the whole world that not only are things not going to change in terms of improving society and people's lives, but that everything is going to cost more, oh and by the way taxes are going up and everything you used to get for a reasonable fee will now be metered and rationned and you're going to get far less for more $!

Thats basically the plan.. Charge em more, give em less. Oh they don't like that? Jail their assess till they agree that our plan is the only plan that works. Fast forward that plan for 20 years and you have your total control, global NWO.

PS> This is why I think all those US military were deployed all around the states earlier in July and August. Lots of videos of train full of US gear being shipped out, reports of hundreds of choppers flying in formation to unknonw locations.. flatbed trucks loaded with military Humvees and artillery cannons. Its a preventative measure .. just in case the # does hit the fan.. it'll be the 1st time in US history that they successfully mobilize for a national emergency, before the actual emergency..

How ironic, Greece where western civilization starts, is now showing how big epic fail was from in its inception. Now they´re been forced to think more like WE than just ME ME ME.

reply to post by greenCo


right, and lately i just cant think of a "westernized" country that doesnt think "me me me"
i could say canada, but thats only referencing the citizens. the gov is in the same corrupt boat. so this would make greece a kind of looking glass because they are doing basically the same things Spain and the UK have been doing and getting the same results. we just havnt announced the austerity yet. though they seem to be advertising it, as many people are pointing out

reply to post by Iiquiringmind

i believe this is why i have such a vested interest in the failing EU. we are doing the same things here. already we are starting to see the same sort of signs that greece was seeing months ago. interesting times

ps. i saw those as well. i cant say for sure that they werent just being shipped from the factories, but i see your point. personally i want them to arm those "riot cops/paramiliatary" to the teethe. there is only so far you can push a man before he turns that gun you gave him against you. i think we have a lot more support from the police and military than we are led to believe. its the perfect place to be undercover lying in wait.

So it would seem everyone so far posting here disagree with the austerity measures.

Let me ask this, what would YOU do to fix their economy?

Its easy to point your finger at it and say its wrong, but without providing any sort of solution, raging against it is useless. The Greek people have spent well beyond their means for years and years. A full 1/4 of its population are employed by their massively bloated government, and welfare is easy to obtain and there is little restrictions on it. The unemployed often lived better than those working minimum wage jobs.

They got themselves into it, they must now fix their mess. It will be painful, and lazy people are going to have to get off their asses and get jobs. Iceland recently finished their painful austerity measures for their past bailout. They were responsible and did what it took. Why can Greece not?

reply to post by nightbringr


You can't really fix something thats a total loss.. some will say the only fix is to hit the rest button or to totally let it die and start anew.. but if that happens, the poepl who are owed all that money are screwed.. thats why the government are killing each other trying to throw money a the problem until it hopefully goes away.. the problem is the money they are throwing at it is actual YOUR money! (I.e. tax money for all the societal infrastructures they already told you it was for) so since they squandered all that money and need more, cuz god forbid they would actually spend it on your country and it's needs, you now owe the goverment more money to replace all the money they just threw at it... oh and there is interest owed on that money too.

Bailouts = deaththrows of the elite government

IMHO the root of the problem is corporatism.. I made a thread a while ago pointing out that Britain would face riots around now (well a series, much of which is to come) loosely based on how similar events (pauperisation of the masses and underemployment) shaped Britain in the 1830s (similar riots happened then and not just in the UK)

But this me me me me me is not new and from what I have read throughout history this attitude has shown itself in the final stages of the collapse of that version of society in the prelude to rise of the next, and I believe we are knocking at that door..

However my concern is that process is painful and seems filled with wars, famines, diseases and all manner of other nasties and usually ends up with the elite still in control or only out of control for a short interval before they find another way to get their claws into society and again we enter the same situation.

So my hope in this long winded post is that we find a way to transform our society in something better that will actually last (at least for a while)

Edit to make sense of what I wrote too quickly

reply to post by nightbringr


you cut out the corruption, first off, and the most dificult.
then you cut taxes, freeing up a bit of spending money when it starts getting tense, you dont raise them.
you dont have to cut spending if you spend on things that will be worthwhile.
invest in industry, infrastructure. dont just throw money at the situation, you have to invest it to make your country worth something. countries should be able to generate their own revenue from dealing with other countries. you cant do this when your workforce is the target of austerity. a country should be like a business. prophits go up when you cut employee pay, but that doesnt mean its the best solution, particularly in the longrun
greece is just like many other countries, they can make money, but bits and pieces go missing before it can be put to good use.
you cant expect to take more of your workers' paychecks as the cost of everything they need rises and expect productivity and standard of living to rise

you want a solution? there is none, because the ONLY solution is sound economics, selflessness on the leaders part, and trust that those same leaders are really doing what is in the best interest of the people

there is no such thing as sound economics anymore so i wont try to claim i can fix the economy.. instead i will watch what will soon be much closer to home, while everyone else hopes for a messiah (ron paul, obama, or otherwise) to fix the GLOBAL economy.

reply to post by nightbringr


I lived in greece the problem is the immigrant they work for a trird of what the greeks worked for and send back to there countrie what they earn.

Originally posted by Iiquiringmind
reply to post by nightbringr

 

You can't really fix something thats a total loss

Not sure what you mean.

Iceland went through the same procedure several years ago, put austerity measures in place and carried them out. It was unpopular with the masses, and it worked. They are now in the black and running balanced budget legislation to prevent this happening again.

reply to post by nightbringr


en.wikipedia.org... here read

Originally posted by Venomilk

then you cut taxes, freeing up a bit of spending money when it starts getting tense, you dont raise them.
you dont have to cut spending if you spend on things that will be worthwhile.
invest in industry, infrastructure. dont just throw money at the situation, you have to invest it to make your country worth something. countries should be able to generate their own revenue from dealing with other countries. you cant do this when your workforce is the target of austerity. a country should be like a business. prophits go up when you cut employee pay, but that doesnt mean its the best solution, particularly in the longrun
greece is just like many other countries, they can make money, but bits and pieces go missing before it can be put to good use.

Thats all well and good, but they should have done those things years ago. That time has passed however and they need to repay their debt. I dont buy a house, spend well beyond my means then default on my loan. I am financially responsible. Nothing less should be expected of Greece. The good citizens of Greece should have formed a lobby group years ago to demand balanced budget legislation and fiscal responsibility. But not its too late and they have to pay off their debt.

Originally posted by Venomilk
you cant expect to take more of your workers' paychecks as the cost of everything they need rises and expect productivity and standard of living to rise

Nor can you borrow money endlessly, running massive deficit after massive deficit and expect everything to be perfect forever. Sooner or later the loaner is going to want repayment. Quite understandable.

Another poster on ATS on a thread similar to this one was a Greek business owner. He lamented about his life and how he worked hard all day to make ends meet, while the Greek governement made welfare handouts so easy to get that many young and old alike choose simply to take handouts and sit around all day in cafes playing dominos rather than work and make a living for themselves. This is a problem and needs to be solved. Only those incapable of working due to physical or mental disabilities should be getting welfare. The rest are lazy bums.

Originally posted by Venomilk
you want a solution? there is none, because the ONLY solution is sound economics, selflessness on the leaders part, and trust that those same leaders are really doing what is in the best interest of the people

Untrue. The answer is austerity measures that will be unpopular but necissary. The answer is in passing balanced budget legislation. It is in reducing the welfare state and putting the responsibility for peoples lives back where it should be, on their own shoulders. I never in a millions years expect the government to pay my way through life. Im much too proud to be a welfare bum, and have no respect at all for those capable of working but choose to be leaches and sit at home on the dole.

Originally posted by POPUP2000
reply to post by nightbringr

 

en.wikipedia.org... here read

Not sure what your trying to tell me. Thats a wiki entry on the greek language.

reply to post by POPUP2000

really, whats the link for?
reply to post by nightbringr


this here www.irishtimes.com... says they wont give any more bailouts. its doing better, but it seems they learned their lesson

again this one too thepursuitoffinancialhappiness.blogspot.com...
says its refusing new bailouts

and this www.icenews.is...
seems to be the austerity plan they enacted several years ago

* Tax increases will not comprise more than 45% of the extra amount needed to ensure a balanced state budget.
* Measures to encourage increased employment place emphasis on facilitating major projects and enlisting the co-operation of pension funds in participating in financing projects.
* Plans put forward with fixed dates for reconstruction of the banking system and the state’s ownership policy; non-Icelandic parties will be able to acquire holdings in Icelandic financial undertakings, in part to facilitate access to credit. Restructuring of bank ownership to be completed by 1 November 2009.

these fixes were mentioned above, no surprise they are part of a working plan. im willing to bet that taxation can be less than 45% and still be effective. but my point is what is greece going to use the austerity money to do? pay off bailouts? to give more bailouts? if its investing in the country thats entirely different, but the people arent seeing that

i do agree that welfare is a big problem, and should be one of the first things to be cut. but this only works if they are using those same funds to invest in jobs for all the unemployed. those chilling in cafes playing dominoes can join in rebuilding the country or go hungry. eventually they will get tired of being hungry. but greece will keep taking bailouts, go further in debt and still mantain all of the welfare being leeched. this is a big problem, we dont disagree on that one. but they arent promoting growth, and balanced budget legislation. it just seems to be austerity in the belief that austerity alone will fix it. your productivity comes first though, or the investing party will not ever get their money back.

its the fault of the creditor for not investing wisely
AND
the fault of the debtor for....wait for it....not investing wisely