My soul screams for religion.

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
The door will be opened to those knocking. The church is Gods. Believers make the church. Do not work the seventh day of the week. Keep the Sabbath holy.

I don't see how Old Testament Law pertains to Christianity, and besides, what are you calling the Sabbath? The "Christian Sabbath", or the Hebrew Sabbath?

I agree with Agarta. In my opinion it is better to be spiritual rather than a follower of one religion. The reason I say this is because religion has a lot of restrictions. I know a lot of people like and want those restrictions because they feel safe and comfortable, but I think restrictions can be harmful too. It limits a person's perspective on life. Unfortunately the majority of Christians feel that their way is the only way. They are blinded from the idea that another religion can work just as well. You are right in saying religion can broaden a mind's perspective, but at the same time, religion can limit it because you don't learn about other religions during Mass. The priest will only teach teachings found in the Bible, where it would be infinitely wiser to teach teachings that are found in all religions. In my opinion, it isn't enough to just read the Bible. One should also read Rumi and Thich Nhat Hanh, and Gandhi and Lao-Tzu. I know that Jesus has a very good message to tell us, but I think a person could feed his spirit much, much more if he or she does not limit himself with one religion. Instead, to find his own path by putting together the pieces. We are all the creators of our own lives, so why not take control and feed the spirit the best way we can?

Originally posted by NeverForget

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NeverForget

 

I'm going to hell for that, right? I stand by my points above.

More likely, I believe, that someone thinking that the God as described in the core parts of the Old Testament, was a good example to follow, would go to Hell.

What about Jesus who agrees with the laws and prophets of the Old Testament?

He doesn't.
A lot of people for some reason promote that and what is going on is a new wave of Judaizing on a level of intensity as what Paul faced but of a more subtle nature, that started when Modern Zionism firmed up their plans for retaking "Judea" from Palestine.
Christians historically up until a hundred and thirty years ago, or so, understood that Jesus never kept the Law of Moses but instead made it very public to where he showed total disdain for it to the point of repeatedly being the target for a stoning, or some other form of execution, such as being thrown off a cliff. They did manage to get him killed, anyway, but on different terms, which coincidentally, was not according to Old Testament Law.

reply to post by etherical waterwave


I do have some questions if I may.

How is it that you know God?
Is it from reading a Book of supposed divine origin because it says it is?
Is it because others have told you this is what and how it is?
Or have you put all of that out of your mind and sought out God for yourself?

Jesus said,

Seek and ye shall find. This does not mean ask your neighbor, it means find God yourself.
Ask and you shall receive. Do you really think it means to ask your neighbor or a book?

I could go on and on but the point is shown.


As for the

'The deep things of Satan'

Might I direct your attention to Mark 11:23-24

23 "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to the mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea.' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him." 24 " Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

I could type quotes all day that show that you are meant to go beyond in Jesus's words. Instead I will simply give you the passages to see for yourself;

Mathew 7:7-8, Mathew 7:13, Mathew 7:24, Mathew 8:13, Mathew 9:29, Mathew 11:25, Mathew 13:18-23, Mathew 17:20-21, Mathew 21:21-22

Mark 4:26-29, Mark 5:34, Mark 9:23

Luke 11:9-10, Luke 17:5-6, Luke 19:19, Luke 18:6-8

John 8:47, John 10:33-35, John 14:11-14

Romans 14:22-23

Corinthians 3:1-3

This is a good start for you.

In Love,

Agarta

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMike
reply to post by etherical waterwave

 

www.ancientfaith.com
Your soul will appreciate the atmosphere.
Most of the ATS people have no idea, unfortunately, what true Christianity is because of the Roman church and the protestant splintering. In Christianity, no one seeks to control anyone. The church is the hospital for your soul.

edit on 11-9-2011 by TruthSeekerMike because: (no reason given)

Your statement may be partially true. But there are several of us here who understand christianity from the inside, and the outside. Not to offend, but from my perspective after all those years in the church, I now see nothing more than a cult. No different than the Moonies or any other. Just much more widespread.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
The door will be opened to those knocking. The church is Gods. Believers make the church. Do not work the seventh day of the week. Keep the Sabbath holy.

I don't see how Old Testament Law pertains to Christianity, and besides, what are you calling the Sabbath? The "Christian Sabbath", or the Hebrew Sabbath?

What do you mean you don't see how Old Testament Law pertains to Christianity? Jesus did not come to do away with the law, but to "fulfill" it.

What do you mean, the "Christian Sabbath" or the "Hebrew Sabbath?" The Sabbath is Saturday, always has been, always will be. As far as the other Sabbaths go in Judiasm, I'm fairly confident that those are to be followed by Christians as well. As well as the feasts/new moons, etc.


If anyone is TRULY interested in Christianity, it helps to read the word with the compliment of the Hebrew language, in which it was written, and be in THEIR mindset.

reply to post by etherical waterwave


I suppose the doctrine and the synthesis of the teaching had to be laid down, but it is only via gnosis, or koinonia with the spirit behind the doctrine, after faith, that there is spiritual food for our eternal enjoyment.

Unless you mean by the word "religion" - to rejoin.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by NeverForget

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NeverForget

 

I'm going to hell for that, right? I stand by my points above.

More likely, I believe, that someone thinking that the God as described in the core parts of the Old Testament, was a good example to follow, would go to Hell.

What about Jesus who agrees with the laws and prophets of the Old Testament?

He doesn't.
A lot of people for some reason promote that and what is going on is a new wave of Judaizing on a level of intensity as what Paul faced but of a more subtle nature, that started when Modern Zionism firmed up their plans for retaking "Judea" from Palestine.
Christians historically up until a hundred and thirty years ago, or so, understood that Jesus never kept the Law of Moses but instead made it very public to where he showed total disdain for it to the point of repeatedly being the target for a stoning, or some other form of execution, such as being thrown off a cliff. They did manage to get him killed, anyway, but on different terms, which coincidentally, was not according to Old Testament Law.

That isn't true. Jesus absolutely followed ALL the laws of Moses, as written in The Torah.

reply to post by graphuto


This is actually incorrect the Sabbath was not always Saturday. Without getting into modern Christianity seeing it as Sunday, but remaining within Judaism, The Essens or Gnostic Jews had their Sabbath on Wednesday.

Originally posted by Agarta
reply to post by graphuto

 

This is actually incorrect the Sabbath was not always Saturday. Without getting into modern Christianity seeing it as Sunday, but remaining within Judaism, The Essens or Gnostic Jews had their Sabbath on Wednesday.

edit on 11-9-2011 by Agarta because: I added punctuation.

Duly noted! Although I don't know where you're getting that information, everything shows me "Saturday."

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
self-enlightenment, that you mean, is found through suffering.

No
Self enlightenment is found when you decide to not suffer anymore,
Pretty blasphemous coming from your mouth btw...Jesus suffered so you wouldn't have to..and so your claiming you should suffer?
nothing like minimizing jesus's suffering in order to make yourself feel enlightened.

You mentioned later on a bunch of other things...such as sabbath.
So, why does organized religion then observe sunday as the sabbath (the first day of the week) verses the actual sabbath (the 7th day). Well, beyond the whole mocking the rules thing of course...but what have you convinced yourself of?

reply to post by graphuto

What do you mean you don't see how Old Testament Law pertains to Christianity? Jesus did not come to do away with the law, but to "fulfill" it.
What do you mean, the "Christian Sabbath" or the "Hebrew Sabbath?" The Sabbath is Saturday, always has been, always will be. As far as the other Sabbaths go in Judiasm, I'm fairly confident that those are to be followed by Christians as well. As well as the feasts/new moons, etc.
If anyone is TRULY interested in Christianity, it helps to read the word with the compliment of the Hebrew language, in which it was written, and be in THEIR mindset.

What does "fulfill" mean to you?
Not "keep it".
It means to fill up.
What is the basis of your confidence that Christians are to keep a Old Testament Sabbath?
Sabbaths, new moons, and the like were expressly said of by Paul not something Christians were to be enslaved by.
Christianity is based on the New Testament, which was written in Greek. The "Hebrew" was written in Babylon and Jesus did not speak Hebrew.

reply to post by graphuto

That isn't true. Jesus absolutely followed ALL the laws of Moses, as written in The Torah.

This sort of thinking goes along with this idea that Jesus came to satisfy the Old Covenant by doing two things, to satisfy the demands of works, and to satisfy the penalty for those who fail to follow it. This is an interpretation but this is never said explicitly in the New Testament.
The New Testament talks about a new covenant, which is what new testament means. This is what Jesus did by his death, which was to do away with the old and to institute the new, not to satisfy the demands of the old.

reply to post by jmdewey60


He is the first and the last, the alpha and omega. If searching for the Omegapoint or the Magnum Opus, the Eschaton at the end of time and history, we need look no further than to the death and resurrection (in whatever form) of Jesus the Christ. It is the "cosmic clamshell" for the cosmogenesis and the evolutionary spiritual transformation of the human being, through re-discovery of God's love for us, his children, in the fullness of time and history, and the time after time in eternity. In Jesus Christ, and through his sublimation of the world, indeed the kingdom of heaven and the incalculable gift of eternal life in reconciliation and reintegration, is at hand (is now). May the spirit of God make his home with us, by our reception of the Bridegroom into the sanctity of the wedding chamber of our heart, the beloved and beloved other rejoined and reunited in koinonia.

I am repulsed by all of the world's organized religions. I don't need religion to dictate to me what to think, feel or teach my child that they will grow hair on his hands if he touches himself. If their is a god/creator/higher power...the being is far beyond our comprehension. Any attributes we assign are a creation of human kind and hardly describe the entity(ies) at all. Religion is a construct of humans. It has nothing at all to do with what causes the universe to spin or the true reality of our situation. Please don't scream salvation at me. I don't need it because I am not salvage.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Not sure what you mean by sublimation and reintegration.
To make sublime, maybe?
To make the earth more spiritual?
The Kingdom of God is now, I agree with that.
It is a spiritual kingdom that exists parallel with this material existence.
The making sublime, to me happens by the removal of evil.
I'm not into the "as above so below" sort of thing, the "above" being something we do not know but people make up to force or convince others to accept. People need to come to conclusions themselves, not that people need to know everything, but they need to make some decisions about what or who they want to follow or not follow and going with the flow means going down the drain.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I'm referring to an evolutionary process, whereby the grain of sand, initially an irritant to the oyster, is transformed over time, however fast or slowly, by the compounded, aggregation of the spirit, until it becomes a precious pearl fit to adorn the gate of heaven as a point of attraction.

By sublimation I mean his placing of everything of this world beneath his feat.

As to flow, there is another type of flow, between two trees of life, the tree of the duality of the knowledge of good and evil (which generates the "fruit" of evil) uprooted and cast away and nowhere to be seen.

It is a type of "strange attractor", from above.

By reintegration, I'm referring to an eternal, evolutionary process of differentiation and reintegration, in spiritual terms, reconciliation and atonement (at one ment) with God, the point of entry to the "Holy of Holies" accessible through Jesus Christ as the embodiment or incarnation of the integrity and wholeness of God or as the evolutionary principal personified.

reply to post by etherical waterwave
Religion is law, faith is freedom!