Houston we have a problem : Breakup of Comet Elenin is slowing it down

Originally posted by carl6405
reply to post by Theophoros

 

I am commenting on this satellite that is going to come down "somewhere". Why is it that they can launch a satellite with pin point accuracy, but they can't guide it when it comes down to some desalite, un populated location??

Or even tell us with more certainty WHEN it will fall?

Calculating the deterioration of a seven ton satelltie aught to be a little more accurate then sometime between October and November...

Originally posted by FreedomCommander
reply to post by Theophoros

 

new tragectory means we might see Niburu a little later.

No, Nibiru's orbit will remain the same.

This is a good write up on that : Source URL included in description of video :

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Masterjaden

 

No.
The comet was not slowed by the solar wind. It increased velocity until perihelion at which point its velocity began to decrease, following the rules of orbital mechanics. Its orbit has not changed in any appreciable manner, no matter what some guy on youtube video says. The calculated time of perihelion and close approach to Earth have not changed in any substantial manner since early this year when the orbital elements had been well determined.

If, as you say, the solar wind had a negligible effect, what's the point of discussing it?

neg·li·gi·ble

adjective
so small, trifling, or unimportant that it may safely be neglected or disregarded:

dictionary.reference.com...

edit on 9/10/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Wrong - the acceleration and subsequent deceleration were already factored into the JPL model - when the new Model came out ten days after breakup, the comet was then modelled to pass the ecliptic on the 11th (today) instead of the 8th as originally modeled.

The Comet slowed down due to its breakup.

Again, the very fact that within ten days of the breakup NASA came out with a new set of coordinates proves that, in fact, its trajectory has change due to the breakup.

Originally posted by mandella1099

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by mandella1099

Wow, Phage - Are all of your comments being supported by your observations with your own personal equipment?

No.
They are supported by orbital mechanics as well as a history of what has happened during many other cometary breakups.

Oh, my misunderstanding - I thought that you had done multiple observations and research on this comet to validate and support your many comments.....

edit on 10-9-2011 by mandella1099 because: (no reason given)

And, I am curious as to all these other comentary breakups you mention...

Originally posted by SelfSustainedLoner
reply to post by Theophoros

 

*yaWn.. Useless information. SelfSustainedLoner has no relevance what so ever to man kind..

Originally posted by Masterjaden
reply to post by Phage
[more

I have no idea whether it was negligible or not. What you said made zero sense, there was no logic to it at all. That's why it's worth discussing. You can't in one breath say that comet Elenin affects the solar wind without the solar wind affecting comet Elenin.

That's all I was pointing out. If you're going to make an argument atleast do so while considering the laws of physics, especially when you're arguing to defend the press releases by the scientific establishment that claims to believe in them as being "LAWS" of reality.

Jaden

I'd have to agree with your assessment on this...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Theophoros

 

The orbital calculations have not changed substantially. The comet has not "lost three days". The video is incorrect.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 9/11/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

No, the video is correct.

The old JPL said it would pass through the ecliptic on Sept 8th and then within ten days of the breakup they came out with new JPL coordinates that showed that it would pass through the ecliptic on the 11th - that is a loss of three days.

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by Theophoros

Yes, there is a three day change. It was due to pass through the ecliptic on Septermber 8 and now, with the new coordinates it will pass through on September 11 - today.

Nonsense.
Elenin was never calculated to cross the ecliptic on September 8. Here is a post on another site, from February, with images showing that the ascending node was shown to occur on the 13-14th of September.
pec.yuku.com...

It is not passing through the ecliptic today. Your statements and your video are nothing but nonsense. [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b41fd40ab6e3.png[/atsimg]

edit on 9/11/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Well this video says otherwise : As does the fact that NASA released the new JPL figures within ten days of said breakup :

reply to post by Theophoros

The video is wrong, as I and others have pointed out.
JPL updates the calculations as new observations become available but from what it says on the website that hasn't happened since August 2.

first obs. used 2010-12-10
last obs. used 2011-08-02

ssd.jpl.nasa.gov...

The calculations have not changed substantially since February.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Theophoros

 

The video is wrong, as I and others have pointed out.
JPL updates the calculations as new observations become available but from what it says on the website that hasn't happened since August 2.

first obs. used 2010-12-10
last obs. used 2011-08-02

ssd.jpl.nasa.gov...

The calculations have not changed substantially since February.

edit on 9/11/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Well the JPL Model included in my video shows otherwise also - it clearly shows the comet passing through the ecliptic well before September 11th.

Perhaps you could comment on that...

Originally posted by oxbow
Do you have a link to the LASCO2 video?

Its a GLP Video :

www.godlikeproductions.com...

reply to post by Theophoros


Here is another interesting comment :

"Even NASA said when they initially posted on the Buzzroom that its trajectory is always being affected by unknown factors, and that it "wasn't likely to impact earth, but its trajectory is just a projection."

www.godlikeproductions.com...

At precisely 1:38 into my video you will see the JPL Model of Comet Elenin passes the Ecliptic well before September 11th, 2011 Anno Domini.

I have used that same JPL video in other of my videos well before the breakup so, what gives?

reply to post by Theophoros



how about you just post a link to it on the jpl website and not your video that nobody wants to watch

reply to post by Theophoros


At 1:38 I don't see the JPL applet. I do see the applet at the end of the video but it is not from the JPL website. It might be from here since it includes the STEREO spacecraft.
secchi.nrl.navy.mil...
According to the website the orbital elements have not been updated since March.

You are comparing different things. As has been demonstrated, the orbit calculated by JPL has not changed appreciably since February.

reply to post by Theophoros

Ok…while I believe this is valid…it is not valid by methodology you provided. I would present:
Facts:

1) Solar winds leave the Sun omni-directionally.
2) The mass and velocity of the Solar winds fluctuates on an hourly basis.
3) CME’s create a regionally specific change relative to the mass and velocity of the Solar winds.
4) The size of the nucleus of the comet is estimated at between 2-4 miles
5) The mass of the nucleus of the comet is estimated at 500 billion tons.
6) The comet is in a hyperbolic orbit

Assumptions:

1) As to the size and mass of the comet, as these are estimates whether or not they are accurate or not is not relative .
2) The comet is slowing down, which seems to be supported from the differing periods of perihelion.

Hypothesis:

The comet is slowing down due to solar winds and may cross the plane of Earth’s orbit at the same time that Earth is within that region.

Analysis:

In order for us to figure what was actually occurring based on this model, we need to know all of the facts at an hourly basis from the time that the comet first started slowing down and then extrapolate out to when it would cross Earth’s orbital plane.

For simplification purposes the effects of the solar winds are not at the center of the methodology but the orbit of comet in relation to the Solar winds. Let me explain. In diagramming the orbit of the comet let’s assume that the slowing occurred when the comet was at 180 degrees to the sun, or directly into a “headwind”. As it continues, its orbit will take it towards the 90 degrees mark. From the time it was heading from the 180 to 90 it is not only slowing down but then being pushed to right, as its orbit is counter-clockwise. The crossing of the 90 degree mark would then experience the most influence of deviation. As it continues its travel from 90 to 0/360 degrees it will still be influenced by the forces pushing it to the right but now will have “tailwind”. This phenomenon is proven by how a comet’s tail always points away from the Sun. If your hypothesis is accurate, that the Solar winds slowed it down, then we should see it starting to speed up. Although if this true, then the Solar winds would pushing the comet towards us, as our orbit currently is to the right of the comet.

This then leads us to how influential the Solar winds are on an object in relation to Newtonian/Kepplar’s Laws. The average Solar winds average about 610 km/s at 1 proton /cm3. Currently according to spaceweather.com we are at 586km/s and 1.6 /cm3 and these reading are updated every 10 minutes. While very fast there isn’t enough mass within the Solar winds to affect an object’s trajectory, as Newton states: A force in motion stays in motion unless an equal and opposing force is applied. Further, as the orbit is hyperbolic, it should have been speeding up as it approaches perihelion and will continue increasing up until it leaves the apex of the arc. The fact that the comet appears to be slowing down needs to be addressed using other methodologies.

The only way I can see the Solar winds being the culprit is maybe the CME on Aug 30/Sept 1 that a number of youtube vids portrayed, hit it with enough mass and speed to slow it down. This seems the more likely than any other explanation.

If someone else has more data to add to the model please feel free to let us know.

Originally posted by MastaShake
reply to post by Theophoros

 

how about you just post a link to it on the jpl website and not your video that nobody wants to watch

My, you are jealous, arn't you...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Theophoros

 

At 1:38 I don't see the JPL applet. I do see the applet at the end of the video but it is not from the JPL website. It might be from here since it includes the STEREO spacecraft.
secchi.nrl.navy.mil...
According to the website the orbital elements have not been updated since March.

You are comparing different things. As has been demonstrated, the orbit calculated by JPL has not changed appreciably since February.

edit on 9/11/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

You really can't be that stupid, can you?

At 1:38 the JPL coordinates are provided in the model contained which even a two year old can tell is not the one you provided. You can use any number of astronomy programs with those JPL coordinates - not just the one you provided - and they will all show the same thing. As stated, in the video it clearly shows the comet passing through the ecliptic well before September 11th.

And I am still waiting on the names of those other comets that broke up that you researched...

Here is a video that shows the effects of the Solar Wind on Comets - this is the one that rips the tail off :

Originally posted by maddog3n

The only way I can see the Solar winds being the culprit is maybe the CME on Aug 30/Sept 1 that a number of youtube vids portrayed, hit it with enough mass and speed to slow it down. This seems the more likely than any other explanation.

If someone else has more data to add to the model please feel free to let us know.

edit on 11-9-2011 by maddog3n because: grammar

I understand the difference between Solar Wind and CME however, for all practicle purposes both are Solar Winds that affect Comets and that is what I was talking about.

If the comet is slowing down - and the video enclosed proves it is and, further, NASA themselves say 'unknowns' are affecting its orbit - then the only explanation is the Solar Winds after breakup.