Do you think they believe their own lies?

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
Can't speak for everyone but I'm honest about my beliefs. Like the enormous majority of people I've never seen anything to convince me that 9/11 was an inside job.

I know Truthers believe everything they write about because it's a faith-based stance. You need the conpiracy and so you'll do anything to support it, including believing things that are self-evidently wildly improbable.

Just watched the programme on UK tv about Charlie Veitch and his truther pals. Watching some of them try to maintain their hilarious views under the pressure of logic and fact was very entertaining. Staring at the floor, shuffling their feet, insisiting that white was black in the face of calm reassurance that no, actually it's not.

I think Charlie and Danny are very entertaining by the way. EVERYTHING IS OK

Often than not, the truth is not told when it comes to humanity.

Now, is that due to something sinister all the time? No, of course not. For example, not sure about you but I was lied to for 6 years believing in Santa Claus.
That's just one example of a lie. You can dip that in religious sugar or sprinkle it with consumerism which only makes kids happy, it's still a lie.


Fact is, we lie and are lied to all the time. The trick is to detect, decipher and decide what to do about it.

I think once people read the plan behind Operation Northwoods and what our OWN government PLANNED to do to us then, the events on 9-11-01 is almost a no-brainer.

Politicians, law-enforcers and religious leaders are on top of the heap when it comes to corruption, lies and deceit.
You may not like it but it would belie you to deny it.

Originally posted by Cassius666
reply to post by Varemia

 

So when you are debating people here, are you trying to convince them of what you think is the truth, or are you trying to convince yourself, that what you have been told by the mass media, maybe even your parents, is the truth?

I'm not overtly trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just trying to get all the facts straight so that we can come to a consensus. Unfortunately, nobody can even agree on the facts, or they focus on the perception of an outcome rather than the facts that lead to the outcome.

Originally posted by Cassius666
Do you think the 911 deniers on here believe their own lies, or do you think they say one thing on here, but know deep down (or not so deep down) that what they try to push are just lies?

They know that they are lying, I mean does anyone think that this

featuring a well known denier of the facts, actually believes that silly video proves anything?

Also the deniers seem to be in competition with each other to see who can come up with the silliest conspiracy theory. I mean, do people actually believe that holographic aircraft were used, not real aircraft? Do they actually believe mini nuclear weapons were used? That silent explosives were used?

Do you really think that they believe those lies?

Technically, if they are "lying", then it doesn't matter if they believe them or not.
But, yes, I believe there are members here that post lies...for the simple reason that it simply doesn't add up. For example, if you have spent any time and effort investigating 911, and you have the intelligence to analyze the data, you are forced to take a side based upon honest reasoning or dishonest promotion of an agenda.
There really is NO other option. There is no middle ground, except for the ignorant. For the rest of us, it is truth or lie. Promote one or the other, or remain ignorant.

They do not believe their own lies.

They justify their lies by convincing each other that it is best for the public to be kept in the dark.

They need all the worker ants to be busy scurrying around keeping the wheels of the economy turning.

Originally posted by SirClem
Technically, if they are "lying", then it doesn't matter if they believe them or not.
But, yes, I believe there are members here that post lies...for the simple reason that it simply doesn't add up. For example, if you have spent any time and effort investigating 911, and you have the intelligence to analyze the data, you are forced to take a side based upon honest reasoning or dishonest promotion of an agenda.
There really is NO other option. There is no middle ground, except for the ignorant. For the rest of us, it is truth or lie. Promote one or the other, or remain ignorant.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Sorry, but I had to say it. It is ignorant to assume that anything in the world is black and white like that. Obviously the facts are up for interpretation, because otherwise there would be no arguments about anything!

reply to post by Varemia

There are good people, and there are bad people.
There are truly evil people, and there are saints.
The difference between them may actually be minute, but split an atom and you have what?
Dear Varemia, perpetuating a lie is perpetuating a lie. If you know it is a lie.
I would do you a disservice if I lied to you and said that you can hide behind a lie. I am telling you that you cannot.
Take it for what you will.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
No. Not at all. A believer believes in what they believe in. Whether in denial or conditioned or really believe. Doesn't matter. It's an honest emotion.

Now, those who know something is a lie....they don''t believe in it per se. They're simply peddling it.

People who believe in the official story of 9-11 truly believe what they were told. They are usually men and women who don't question authority and have an automatic built in respect system in regards to their leaders (whereas, respect is earned. Not given)

Now, as a politician telling a lie pretending he/she believes it ......is a whole other ball game (in fact, a whole other species). They were BORN to be dubious and deceitful. They really don't know better. It's in their DNA.

I can honestly say I seriously doubt any 'politician' is a different species.

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Often than not, the truth is not told when it comes to humanity.

Now, is that due to something sinister all the time? No, of course not. For example, not sure about you but I was lied to for 6 years believing in Santa Claus.
That's just one example of a lie. You can dip that in religious sugar or sprinkle it with consumerism which only makes kids happy, it's still a lie.


Fact is, we lie and are lied to all the time. The trick is to detect, decipher and decide what to do about it.

I think once people read the plan behind Operation Northwoods and what our OWN government PLANNED to do to us then, the events on 9-11-01 is almost a no-brainer.

Politicians, law-enforcers and religious leaders are on top of the heap when it comes to corruption, lies and deceit.
You may not like it but it would belie you to deny it.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with your penultimate sentence. I wouldn't even doubt that the will exists in certain circles to control events in the manner that a 9/11 Conspiracy might engender. But I have problems with the specifics of that view as it pertains to 9/11 and to the conspiracist worldview generally.

With regard to 9/11, I can't see how something like Northwoods suggests anything more than a potential intent to carry out something like this. It doesn't address the practicality of doing it in the manner envisaged by most conspiracists - an execution that is needlessly complicated and far too personnel-heavy to be viable. Even if one envisages that the kind of people who came up with Northwoods were somehow able to get a similar - but far nastier - plan off the ground, one has to rely on the silence (and venality) of too many to make it practical.

In a more general sense I agree that the world is at the mercy of terrible people. But most of them are just acting out of self interest, enlightened or otherwise. If oil companies create a favourable situation to trade in, then they make money. So everyone involved in those businesses, whether knowingly or not, tends to try to create favourable conditions. They do this to further their own careers, mainly, not because they are following some infernal plan.

I had a discussion on here once with a fully paid-up illuminati-type conspiracist. He worked for KBR. When i suggested that he was helping the forces he hated he became irate and told me that his job had nothing to do with working for TPTB, when of course it absolutely does. And his position is no different to the guy who arranges for tribes to be cleared by violence from an oil-rich area of Nigeria, or an MI6 agent telling Ghaddafi what to do - they are just higher up the chain, and arguably more morally suspect. But all of them are acting from personal self-interest and furthering the causes of international capital.

There is no conspiracy. Or not a big, organised one. That's a polite fiction that helps people sleep at night. The people who are doing this to us - it's us.

Originally posted by SirClem
reply to post by Varemia

 

There are good people, and there are bad people.
There are truly evil people, and there are saints.
The difference between them may actually be minute, but split an atom and you have what?
Dear Varemia, perpetuating a lie is perpetuating a lie. If you know it is a lie.
I would do you a disservice if I lied to you and said that you can hide behind a lie. I am telling you that you cannot.
Take it for what you will.

You're assuming that I think it's a lie. I don't. I take data as it comes and I use it to determine a likely conclusion. This is not lying. It is the process of science. If someone is able to find convincing data that shows that my current "most likely conclusion" is something else, then I will gladly change my position.