key 9/11 commision members come out with some truth in their books

well, the official story proponents can't use the 9/11 commission reports any longer as a valid source, we got some whistleblowers here and i can't see anyone being able to attack the importance of these guy's testimonies...every OSer on this site has used what these guys came up with in that report as a way to "debunk" the truth...........we knew this all along we just needed someone in there to come out with it...conscience is a b&*ch ain't it?



click on the link to read the full article......

rense.com...

In their book, the chairman and vice chairman, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, wrote that the 9/11 Commission was "set up to fail." Senior counsel John Farmer, Jr., wrote that the US government made "a decision not to tell the truth about what happened," and that the NORAD "tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public." Kean said, "We to this day don't know why NORAD told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth."

One member of the 9/11 Commission, former Senator Max Cleland, responded to the constraints placed on the commission by the White House: "If this decision stands, I, as a member of the commission, cannot look any American in the eye, especially family members of victims, and say the commission had full access. This investigation is now compromised." Cleland resigned rather than have his integrity compromised.

I should tell you that I am not particularly concerned one way or the other about 9/11. I was however caught by the word "truth" in the headline, so I took a look at the source you posted. It contained, among many other sentences, these:

To be clear, neither Cleland nor members of the commission suggested that 9/11 was an inside job to advance a war agenda.

Let me be clear about my point. I am not saying that some black op group in the neoconservative Bush administration blew up the buildings in order to advance the neoconservative agenda of war in the Middle East. If there is evidence of a coverup, it could be the government covering up its incompetence and not its complicity in the event.

After looking at these, I came to the belief that the investigation was not thorough. There could be a number of reasons for that, including incompetence as your source mentioned.

But am I wrong in thinking that the answer still is "We don't know?"

Good Article!

like this paragraph:

We can explain away contrary evidence as coincidences and mistakes and conclude that only the government got it all correct, the same government that got everything else wrong.

reply to post by patternfinder


Sigh.....here we go again....

You might want to do some research on John Farmer and what he has to say about his book....better yet, try actually READING it, rather than quoting what you see on conspiracy sites.

Mr Farmer has clearly stated in numerous interviews that the 9/11 Commission Report is an accurate recounting of the events of that day and the years leading up to it. When he spoke about how a conscious decision was made not to tell the truth, he is referring to the story that initially came out from the government in the days following 9/11...and how when the Commission finally got into the documents/interviews, they found that it did not match reality.

What no one wanted was to start examining all the short comings/mistakes/political posturing that had taken place over the previous 30 plus years that left us open to attack.

Originally posted by charles1952
I should tell you that I am not particularly concerned one way or the other about 9/11. I was however caught by the word "truth" in the headline, so I took a look at the source you posted. It contained, among many other sentences, these:

To be clear, neither Cleland nor members of the commission suggested that 9/11 was an inside job to advance a war agenda.

Let me be clear about my point. I am not saying that some black op group in the neoconservative Bush administration blew up the buildings in order to advance the neoconservative agenda of war in the Middle East. If there is evidence of a coverup, it could be the government covering up its incompetence and not its complicity in the event.

After looking at these, I came to the belief that the investigation was not thorough. There could be a number of reasons for that, including incompetence as your source mentioned.

But am I wrong in thinking that the answer still is "We don't know?"

i have to admit, i didn't like those parts of it, but...i still am not going to discount the part about the books and that they admit that it was set up to fail....

This news has actually been out for awhile. I reecently have shown debunkers the quotes from one of the chairmen of the 9/11 commission stating that he could NOT look any American in the face and tell them the Commission had succeeded. Hence, his resignation. There are several other members of the Commission that say the same pretty much.

So for the thousandth time you debunkers - not only is the OS just a theory, several of the people that helped form that theory are telling you it was bupkiss

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by patternfinder

 

Sigh.....here we go again....

You might want to do some research on John Farmer and what he has to say about his book....better yet, try actually READING it, rather than quoting what you see on conspiracy sites.

Mr Farmer has clearly stated in numerous interviews that the 9/11 Commission Report is an accurate recounting of the events of that day and the years leading up to it. When he spoke about how a conscious decision was made not to tell the truth, he is referring to the story that initially came out from the government in the days following 9/11...and how when the Commission finally got into the documents/interviews, they found that it did not match reality.

What no one wanted was to start examining all the short comings/mistakes/political posturing that had taken place over the previous 30 plus years that left us open to attack.

In their book, the chairman and vice chairman, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, wrote that the 9/11 Commission was "set up to fail."

that's ok, let's see you debunk their book....

Originally posted by deadmessiah
This news has actually been out for awhile. I reecently have shown debunkers the quotes from one of the chairmen of the 9/11 commission stating that he could NOT look any American in the face and tell them the Commission had succeeded. Hence, his resignation. There are several other members of the Commission that say the same pretty much.

So for the thousandth time you debunkers - not only is the OS just a theory, several of the people that helped form that theory are telling you it was bupkiss

well, we have to be vigilant with our information...there are alot of people that are just getting over to this side or teetering one way or another that haven't seen this......

Fabulous thread. Read through the article, and it does cast big black hairy shadows over the whole report. Although I am sure that surprises few people.

It was very interesting to hear that perhaps all this cover up is an efort to divert gaze away from US Government incompetence, rather than their complicity (to paraphrase). I especially liked the line

We can explain away contrary evidence as coincidences and mistakes and conclude that only the government got it all correct, the same government that got everything else wrong.

Indeed! So much went wrong all at the same time on the same day that if the government story is true then there is a huge embarrasing picture they wouldwish to hide.

Meh! I am still non the wiser, but perhaps a little more informed on the subject.

reply to post by patternfinder


Have you actually read their book? To see what they mean by "set up to fail"? Im going to guess you haven't.

By the way, here's the link to an article where Max Cleland was interviewed. A lot of damning statements are made. A good read for all truthers and debunkers.

dir.salon.com...

In America there is still doubt as to the truth of the OS.
The rest of the world has NO doubts at all....The isreali connections are too obvious, and the intelligence community of the USA was either incompetant or involved somehow. period.
All in all it was the greatest robbery come Reichtag fire in the history of the modern world.

One good link...
High-Level American Officials Admit that the United States Uses False Flag Terror

And here's a really good list from last year's anniversary...

www.infowars.com...

man, I don't know why it's so screwed up when I post it on ats

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


9/11 Commissioners:

* The 9/11 Commission’s co-chairs said that the 9/11 Commissioners knew that military officials misrepresented the facts to the Commission, and the Commission considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements (free subscription required)
www.washingtonpost.com...

* 9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue
www.cbc.ca..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">web.archive.org...://www.cbc.ca/sunday/911hamilton.html

* 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”
www.cnn.com...

* 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: “It is a national scandal”; “This investigation is now compromised”; and “One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”
dir.salon.com...
www.boston.com...
www.democracynow.org.../03/23/1546256

* 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .” He also said that the investigation depended too heavily on the accounts of Al Qaeda detainees who were physically coerced into talking
salon.com...
www.newsweek.com...

* And the Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) – who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry – recently said “At some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened”. He also said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.” And he said: “It’s almost a culture of concealment, for lack of a better word. There were interviews made at the FAA’s New York center the night of 9/11 and those tapes were destroyed. The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened”
www.washingtonsblog.com...
www.washingtonpost.com...
www.time.com...


If even the 9/11 Commissioners don’t buy the official story, why do you?

Senior intelligence officers:

* Former military analyst and famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg said that the case of a certain 9/11 whistleblower is “far more explosive than the Pentagon Papers”. He also said that the government is ordering the media to cover up her allegations about 9/11. And he said that some of the claims concerning government involvement in 9/11 are credible, that “very serious questions have been raised about what they [U.S. government officials] knew beforehand and how much involvement there might have been”, that engineering 9/11 would not be humanly or psychologically beyond the scope of the current administration, and that there’s enough evidence to justify a new, “hard-hitting” investigation into 9/11 with subpoenas and testimony taken under oath
www.bradblog.com...-5260
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

* A 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials (Raymond McGovern) said “I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 Report is a joke”
www.opednews.com...

* A 29-year CIA veteran, former National Intelligence Officer (NIO) and former Director of the CIA’s Office of Regional and Political Analysis (William Bill Christison) said “I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe
www.opednews.com...
www.dissidentvoice.org...

* A number of intelligence officials, including a CIA Operations Officer who co-chaired a CIA multi-agency task force coordinating intelligence efforts among many intelligence and law enforcement agencies (Lynne Larkin) sent a joint letter to Congress expressing their concerns about “serious shortcomings,” “omissions,” and “major flaws” in the 9/11 Commission Report and offering their services for a new investigation (they were ignored)
www.pogo.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">web.archive.org...://www.pogo.org/m/hsp/hsp-911commission-040913.pdf

* A decorated 20-year CIA veteran, who Pulitzer-Prize winning investigative reporter Seymour Hersh called “perhaps the best on-the-ground field officer in the Middle East”, and whose astounding career formed the script for the Academy Award winning motion picture Syriana (Robert Baer) said that “the evidence points at” 9/11 having had aspects of being an inside job
www.youtube.com...

* The Division Chief of the CIA’s Office of Soviet Affairs, who served as Senior Analyst from 1966 – 1990. He also served as Professor of International Security at the National War College from 1986 – 2004 (Melvin Goodman) said “The final [9/11 Commission] report is ultimately a coverup”
www.opednews.com...

If even our country’s top intelligence officers don’t buy the official story, why do you?

Congressmen:

* According to the Co-Chair of the Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 and former Head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Bob Graham, an FBI informant had hosted and rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken under orders from the White House
www.buzzflash.com...
www.nytimes.com...

* Current Democratic U.S. Senator Patrick Leahy said “The two questions that the congress will not ask . . . is why did 9/11 happen on George Bush’s watch when he had clear warnings that it was going to happen? Why did they allow it to happen?”
www.democracynow.org.../09/29/150254

* Current Republican Congressman Ron Paul calls for a new 9/11 investigation and states that “we see the [9/11] investigations that have been done so far as more or less cover-up and no real explanation of what went on”
www.youtube.com...
www.prisonplanet.tv..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">web.archive.org...://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/170107paul.mp3

* Current Democratic Congressman Dennis Kucinich hints that we aren’t being told the truth about 9/11
www.911blogger.com...

* Current Republican Congressman Jason Chafetz says that we need to be vigilant and continue to investigate 9/11
www.youtube.com...

* Former Democratic Senator Mike Gravel states that he supports a new 9/11 investigation and that we don’t know the truth about 9/11
www.youtube.com...

* Former Republican Senator Lincoln Chaffee endorses a new 9/11 investigation
patriotsquestion911.com...

* Former U.S. Democratic Congressman Dan Hamburg doesn’t believe the official version of events
prisonplanet.com...

* Former U.S. Republican Congressman and senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, and who served six years as the Chairman of the Military Research and Development Subcommittee Curt Weldon has shown that the U.S. tracked hijackers before 9/11, is open to hearing information about explosives in the Twin Towers, and is open to the possibility that 9/11 was an inside job
www.globalresearch.ca...
www.yourbbsucks.com...

If there is bipartisan questioning of the official story, why aren’t you questioning it?

Other government officials:

* U.S. General, Commanding General of U.S. European Command and Supreme Allied Commander Europe, decorated with the Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart (General Wesley Clark) said “We’ve never finished the investigation of 9/11 and whether the administration actually misused the intelligence information it had. The evidence seems pretty clear to me. I’ve seen that for a long time”
securingamerica.com...

* Former Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter (Morton Goulder), former Deputy Director to the White House Task Force on Terrorism (Edward L. Peck), and former US Department of State Foreign Service Officer (J. Michael Springmann), as well as a who’s who of liberals and independents) jointly call for a new investigation into 9/11
www.911truth.org...

* Former Federal Prosecutor, Office of Special Investigations, U.S. Department of Justice under Presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan; former U.S. Army Intelligence officer, and currently a widely-sought media commentator on terrorism and intelligence services (John Loftus) says “The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defense of incompetence”
www.guardian.co.uk...

* The Group Director on matters of national security in the U.S. Government Accountability Office said that President Bush did not respond to unprecedented warnings of the 9/11 disaster and conducted a massive cover-up instead of accepting responsibility
www.buzzflash.com...

* Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan (Col. Ronald D. Ray) said that the official story of 9/11 is “the dog that doesn’t hunt”
www.propagandamatrix.com...

* The former director of the FBI (Louis Freeh) says there was a cover up by the 9/11 Commission
www.newsmax.com...


If top government officials are skeptical, why aren’t you?

Originally posted by charles1952
I should tell you that I am not particularly concerned one way or the other about 9/11. I was however caught by the word "truth" in the headline, so I took a look at the source you posted. It contained, among many other sentences, these:

To be clear, neither Cleland nor members of the commission suggested that 9/11 was an inside job to advance a war agenda.

Let me be clear about my point. I am not saying that some black op group in the neoconservative Bush administration blew up the buildings in order to advance the neoconservative agenda of war in the Middle East. If there is evidence of a coverup, it could be the government covering up its incompetence and not its complicity in the event.

After looking at these, I came to the belief that the investigation was not thorough. There could be a number of reasons for that, including incompetence as your source mentioned.

But am I wrong in thinking that the answer still is "We don't know?"

If that's the hardest question you have, then you are correct: *We still don't know.* No serious "Truther" is claiming that we know exactly what happened on that day; we just want the hard questions answered. That's why so many people are calling for a real investigation.

Understand: There's a great number of gullible kids and idiots out there playing a game of *9/11 Conspiracy Theory* who have all the answers. They're the same idiots who uncritically post Elenin videos from YouTube, and have detailed knowledge of Reptilians, and study floor plans and elevations of military DUMBs. Please don't conflate the serious adult truth-seekers with that same bunch of morons. It's wrong and insulting....

No knowledgeable experts were appointed to the commission

People forget that the entire 911 Commission and it's subsequent report was created due to the demands of the 911 Victim's Families who were seeking answers.

Most of the questions from the 9/11 families were not answered. Important witnesses were not called. The commission only heard from those who supported the government's account. The commission was a controlled political operation, not an investigation of events and evidence. Its membership consisted of former politicians. No knowledgeable experts were appointed to the commission.

In essence another cover story created by politicians, for politicians.



rense.com...

Originally posted by patternfinder
well, the official story proponents can't use the 9/11 commission reports any longer as a valid source, we got some whistleblowers here and i can't see anyone being able to attack the importance of these guy's testimonies

You must be new here :p . They have no problem shooting down high ranking politicians, former head of states, intelligence people, military people etc. .

Originally posted by 1825114
* 9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”
www.cnn.com...

Note that Roemer signed his name to the Report, endorsing the official story. Clearly, whatever false statements he thinks were made, he was satisfied with the corrections offered.

* 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .” He also said that the investigation depended too heavily on the accounts of Al Qaeda detainees who were physically coerced into talking
salon.com...

"Kerrey was dismissive of the conspiracy theories as well. Asked about the possibility of a controlled demolition at the World Trade Center, he scoffed, 'There's no evidence for that.' ... So I'm 100 percent certain that [bin Laden] directed that attack, but am I completely comfortable saying there was no direct Saudi involvement, or that Saddam Hussein wasn't involved in some fashion, or that the Iranians weren't involved? I'm pretty close to 100 percent certain, but I'd be more comfortable if we'd interviewed Khalid Shaikh Mohammed."

In other words, Kerrey does support the official story of Al Qaeda's planning and operational role, but at the time of the interview was open to the remote possibility of Saudi, Iraqi, or Iranian involvement. I don't think anyone suspects Iraqi or Iranian involvement any more. I don't think anyone seriously suspects the government of Saudi Arabia was officially involved. Some princelings or minor functionaries will probably be identified as AQ supporters at some point, that shouldn't be a surprise, but it doesn't translate to KSA involvement.

* And the Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) – who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry – recently said “At some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened”. He also said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.” And he said: “It’s almost a culture of concealment, for lack of a better word. There were interviews made at the FAA’s New York center the night of 9/11 and those tapes were destroyed. The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened”
...
www.time.com...

"One of the harmful byproducts of not telling the truth about what happened is that it did fuel all sorts of conspiracy theories about what might have happened. If what the government is telling you isn't true, then the truth could be anything. But my experience suggests that government lacks competence to carry off an elaborate conspiracy like what is being talked about with 9/11. I think there is evidence that the truth wasn't told and that at least some of that was deliberate — but it did not occur on any sort of scale that people are imagining."

Farmer's point is that before the commission everyone had this idea that the government presented a unified response to the terrorism, but the commission discovered there was actually a huge gap between the decision-makers and the policy-makers. This is pretty standard in government bureaucracies, by the way. Once the commission got underway, though, it ferreted out the truth. Note that Farmer says "the truth wasn't told," not "the truth isn't being told," or, "we didn't tell the truth in our report." When you read the official story in the Commission Report, you are reading a narrative with which John Farmer agrees.

If even the 9/11 Commissioners don’t buy the official story, why do you?

They didn't just buy the official story, they wrote the official story. And truthers are twisting their words to make it look like they are repudiating what they wrote, when they are not.

Originally posted by deadmessiah
By the way, here's the link to an article where Max Cleland was interviewed. A lot of damning statements are made. A good read for all truthers and debunkers.

dir.salon.com...

So Cleland does, in fact, buy the official story. He just thinks the neocons used the events as a springboard into Iraq.

Not being an American for a start, I don't know how the american public can trust their government, period.
Since Lincoln's assassination, JFK, Bobby Kennedy, Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jnr's killing, the US government have been lying to the US public.
There are so many other issues and events that have taken place, that have cost american lives and still it does not stop.
Pearl Harbour, Korean war, Vietnam, Iraq, the list is endless. Americans thrown into armed military conflict and war, for hidden agenda's and goals. Who is ruling the USA these days? Defenitely not the government.
Wake up and smell the roses.....