General: China Could Be Planning Surprise Missile Attack on United States

how china could make the first strike, then denie any involvement. China has but a few nuke subs, one of cold be lost or , as i see it stolen and used to launch a first strike on the US or Taiwan www.nti.org... from the link

The Xia-class SSBN is a modification of the Han-class SSN, lengthened to house 12 missile tubes. China has stated that it has built two Xia-class SSBNs, each of which can carry 12 JL-1 SLBMs. However, reports conflict as to whether China has actually deployed two SSBNs. Most analysts estimate only one is operational (the 09-2).

no this is just thought, not prophecy, it could go to a port thought to be secure, and safe, but then captured, Libya navy force as well as other mid east now how they work and have a few of there own older class subs. this link proves the point, that yes they know how to operate a sub articles.janes.com... it is not likely to happen, but then... we live in a world where anything could.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Ok, please people, ask me this. Give me a reason why China would want to invade America? A war that would cause world war 3, and the destruction of most of the planet, if not all the planet. Please tell me,how would china gain anything from this?

All i see here is Fear mongering, nothing more.

why would'nt they want to? i was asked to present a way that they might be able to mount an invasion,so i did..."we are sick of buying things from the usa and we are sick of the economic competition" "so we'll take over the usa and use their raw materials to make our own products and then we can rule the world"

reply to mikeybiznaz... jumbo jets carry 500 people all the time, as i said they could arrive in them. walk around a mall on a friday night,how many people do you see on average that would be ready for war on usa soil without much warning? maybe 1 in 50...you said the usa has a 300 million man militia

Originally posted by blocula
why would'nt the want to? i was asked to present a way that they might be able to mount an invasion,so i did..."we are sick of buying things from the usa and we are sick of the economic competition" "so we'll take over the usa and use their raw materials to make our own products and then we can rule the world"

No offense but that's pretty lame. China already makes their own products. Taking over the world would require a lot more than just defeating the US. Next you would somehow have to Defeat the EU then Russia and then invade Australia, South America, Africa...

Then deal with the Muslim extremist just like how China is having to do in Eastern Tajikistan right now, I mean Western China.

reply to post by blocula


That's all fine and dandy, but a militia of 300 million can't just march their way to the U.S. Unless they are all Jesus, in which case, one is more than enough.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Ok, please people, ask me this. Give me a reason why China would want to invade America? A war that would cause world war 3, and the destruction of most of the planet, if not all the planet. Please tell me,how would china gain anything from this?

All i see here is Fear mongering, nothing more.

fear mongering???... should we not be afraid and aware of the chance that it could happen or just deny it and make believe that it could never happen and when has any country used nukes in war since 1945???...they have'nt, so a war between the usa and china would not have to involve nukes...

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Geez this site really is full of kids. THINK!!!!

The first container that was opened and Chinamen jumped out, do you think the rest of the containers would be opened? NO!!!!!!

The first jumbo jet that landed and 500 Chinamen jump out, do you think the reast of the jets would land? NO!!!!!! Unbelievable.

Originally posted by blocula
and what about filling 50 jumbo jets in bound from the orient,each filled with 500 trained and ready to kill chinese troops each,instead of fat happy tourists. troops we would'nt even know were on the planes untill they had already landed and dispersed all over dozens of californias airports and hold the airports long enough to allow the massive waves of chinese troop planes to land simultaneously. the average janes and joes would not be mentally prepared for just what the psychological shock of this happening would bring, never mind their shock when people start getting machine gunned in the streets and probably 80% of the whoever usa citizens that would get in the way of the chinese soldiers would'nt resist at all, would'nt even put up a fight,they'd be too afraid,too traumatized by the whole thing going down...

edit on 6-9-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)

they would land at dozens of airports simultaneously and who the heck would be ready to fight them off at the airports??? paul blart the airport security chief! hahahaha that is funny and they would be in the "hulls" of the container ships, not in the containers.

reply to post by blocula


I laughed at this, most of these posts by you lol. Please elaborate. Passenger jets coming with tons of chinese people all at once, how many jets can enter the United States at once you think? Would it raise any red flags? Would the CIA fail to recognize a plot so large? I want to hear more about this its comical. How can they get armed? They storing guns or something somewhere? Grenades up there ass try to get pass security? With airport security nowadays in the United States, good luck lol. If they bring guns on the plane and try to force there way though security, you think armed forces would not be deployed, law enforcement etc? SWAT? All for what, to get all these Chinese slaughtered in a stupid move?

Once we neutrallize all of the chinese who "tried" to invade through the commerical airports, you know for a fact a heavy retialaition from the United States would occur. Then you said hold California aiports and wait for massive waves of troops to invade? What? No transports would even get close, they would get shot out of the sky before they even came near the thought of invading

And you stated this, let me use your logic as it makes sense to you, and only you. You said there are 3,500,000 chinese people in the United States, how many are to old, to young, to unfit, woman etc, to scared to fight? lol I know some Chinese people, I graduated with one and his family owns a Chinese restaurant actually. They came to America for a better life, not sleeper cells.

I ask alot of questions because it all is rhetorical questions

well...hmmmmm...there seems to be around 87,000 flights in and out of and around the usa EVERYDAY!!! so surely a few dozen jumbo jets could land all over california on the same day with 4 or 5 hundred chinese troops in each plane and take over the airports long enough to bring in a larger landing force and the chinese would'nt have to pass through the security of "their own airports", just fill up the already scheduled flights out of the orient with armed troops instead of tourists and they would be on their way to california and "we would not know" till they were already here and just who would magically appear to nuetralize these heavily armed,trained and ready to kill chinese troops? airport security headed by paul blart?!?! ...wiki.answers.com...

reply to post by blocula


Ugh, I don't want to spoon feed you and answers but it seems like I have too. When you look something up and try to advocate your radical theory please, please use some logic. It seems more interesting when you provide factual information. And please, answer my other questions in my previous post, you don't make any sense.

249 flights to between China and the United States a week. Averages out to 1.4 flights, per hour.

There is no Open Skies agreement with China. There is a restrictions on the flights, frequency, airlines, routes, security, etc.

Good day.

Edit: Your scenario I just read though again, I laughed, again. I don't really want to go through it and show you how flawed it is.

Originally posted by Darkblade71
I have no doubt though that the Chinese do have US invasion plans, and probably lots of other crazy plans, just like most large countries. The Soviet Union had it all worked out too. I bet most countries do.

No, you're wrong.

Let's take Iraq, and Lybia as an example. Supposedly they had weapons of mass destruction, but when attacked they had neither the inclination, courage or aptitude to use them. The same applies to most countries, they are pretty much like Germany in WWII, that invaded these countries to create a buffer zone around Germany. The only thing they see, is their own little turf they sit on.

The same applies to the Chinese ... the Chinese are equally nationalistic, to the Germans and the Americans. To them. They are not going to invade the world, because the world is inferior ... it's their weak point. And even though they can catch up with the worlds technology in 20 years. They will still have this weak point, for at least another two or three generations. Take any chinese, that is in the US ... what language do they speak? chinese, right.

They catch up technologically ... but mentally, they are still children. And because of that, they can be easily beaten if it comes to war. And, I'd bet that their military machine knows this as well as I do.

But, the same applies to the US. Iff, Europe were to develope again, mentally ... they could defeat the US in a heartbeat ... without weapons. But, somebody has beaten Europe to it ... I don't know who ...

The World War we are in, is not being fought by weapons ... it is being fought in the field of economy. It is being fought in the field is knowledge and science. The US and Europe, are and have been, so busy helping everybody in the world. That it never occurred to them, that their help possibly wasn't welcome. So convinced of your superiority, that it never occurred to you that your weakness was and is your arrogance. Your ego. Now, you are being fought with a "divide and conquer", where the first order of attack is "divide". The only thing that keeps the US from falling apart, is the wars, that keeps focusing the mentality of Americans into a unified direction. At the same time, people in Europe and America are losing their jobs, companies are going bust and in the end ... when there is no common point to focus on, the war is over ... and all we have left, is divergence amongst ourselves, which will make us fall apart. The economy won't work, no jobs and we will start to look invard, instead of outwards, for solutions to our problems.

This is the war, we are fighting ... and we are losing. We are so busy being "good", that we are inviding our enemy to live amongst us, In the end, our own system will be our downfall. Our own system of democracy, will ensure that we get divided. The world itself, is a set of many nationalities, and ethnic groups all of which are seperate. By taking all these groups into the US, you ensure the US will be divided. It's "dead" certain. The more you try to save the world, the more you invite the world into your home ... the more you invite the divergence of the world, into your home. This is precisely how America beat Germany in WWII. It was the US, that forced multi-party democracy on Germany, not to help Germany, but to ensure Germany would keep on bickering amongst themselves, and never unite again to be a threat.

This is what is being done to you ...

And the only thing the Chinese have to do ... is sit and wait. Because the Chinese are 1,3 billion. They are by far, the biggest ethnic group ... the biggest country, with the most common language, of the entire world. All they have to do, is sit and wait ... and then they'll won.

I'm not saying the chinese are this smart ... nor am I saying, they are the ones fighting this economic war. But I am telling you, that you've already lost. The minute, the very hour, you chose GW Bush, the father into office. You opened, and set this chain of actions into motion. The reactions of the son, was not merely anticipated ... it was dead certain that he would be stupid enough to go war on everyone, as a result. You can be one hundred percent certain, that our enemy knew and counted on that reaction.

You lost ... sorry pal, after you're divided, nobody will care to conquer you though ... you'll be left to fight amongst yourselves, as we will.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by nenothtu

 

When those A, B, and else particles hit other matter, it excites it. This in turn makes it dangerous. No different than free radicals in the body.

Radiation does it's ugly deeds by ionizing biological material and disrupting DNA. It breaks down cell structure via ionization, hence the term "ionizing radiation". It's the energy given off by the particles rather than the particles themselves, and that energy can't be excited in non-nuclear materials, but it can sure 'nuff tear them up..

Alpha and beta are not all that dangerous unless ingested - they aren't energetic enough to penetrate skin. It's the Gamma waves which are the dangerous ones. They pass right through you, ionizing things as they go and causing them to break down. That's the reason for the hair loss and the gastric devastation that eventually kills via dehydration and blood loss. Cancers are less immediate, but no less deadly. They are brought on by the changes to the DNA that cause cells to replicate uncontrollably, rather than the cellular breakdown which cause immediate (more or less) deaths.

The most "dangerous" particles in regards to a nuclear explosion are dangerous specifically because they give off the most gamma radiation, but by the same token they decay quicker BECAUSE they are giving off that energy so quickly and in volume. They "use it up" so to speak. that's the reason behind "half lives".

I probably did get the terminology wrong. I do that a lot. But I am fairly sure that when you dump bunch of radioactive materials onto a site, it does sort of make it "Contagious". Not in any biological means, but yea.

I mean, after all, isn't that why you can't even wear clothing from the radioactive zone?

Not exactly. the contaminated stuff is contaminated because of the radioactive particles that adhere to it, rather than being made radioactive itself. It's easier to bury it than it is to try to remove all the tiny particles.

reply to post by blocula

why would'nt they want to?

I explained why they wouldn't want to. Did you read my post?

i was asked to present a way that they might be able to mount an invasion,so i did..."we are sick of buying things from the usa and we are sick of the economic competition" "so we'll take over the usa and use their raw materials to make our own products and then we can rule the world"

LOLLOL Please don't tell me you are serious? Your lack of knowledge and your fear mongering is quite funny

fear mongering???...

Yes, fear mongering, at it's worst!

should we not be afraid and aware of the chance that it could happen or just deny it and make believe that it could never happen

Yeah, there is also a chance that i could win the lottery

and when has any country used nukes in war since 1945???...they have'nt, so a war between the usa and china would not have to involve nukes...

Since when have we had another world war since ww2? Thats right, i said world war! Please read my posts!

they would land at dozens of airports simultaneously and who the heck would be ready to fight them off at the airports??? paul blart the airport security chief! hahahaha that is funny and they would be in the "hulls" of the container ships, not in the containers

Oh please! lol

reply to post by nenothtu


Yes, but then what is the good of any underground city? Filters are limited, and ground water will seep in on decades old concrete bunkers. And then of course there's air. You can keep that closed cycle yes, but just like the filters, that will also break down in time without a huge sum of plants. Which are going to require some sort of energy to keep lights on them. Which that in turn is going to require all sorts of technical issues as well.

It just seems to me as though an underground city just exacerbates the long term survival problem. You're just not going to stop it. The only solution is to leave the planet all together.


Furthermore, while larger radioactive elements may be stopped by filters, would there not be addition radioactive materials from elements in the environment less resistant to energetic influences? I think of iodine and other lower level particles that can still get through filters.

Originally posted by Laxpla
reply to post by blocula

 

Ugh, I don't want to spoon feed you and answers but it seems like I have too. When you look something up and try to advocate your radical theory please, please use some logic. It seems more interesting when you provide factual information. And please, answer my other questions in my previous post, you don't make any sense.

249 flights to between China and the United States a week. Averages out to 1.4 flights, per hour.

There is no Open Skies agreement with China. There is a restrictions on the flights, frequency, airlines, routes, security, etc.

Good day.

Edit: Your scenario I just read though again, I laughed, again. I don't really want to go through it and show you how flawed it is.

edit on 7-9-2011 by Laxpla because: (no reason given)

i did answer them in the above replies....does'nt anyone read the comments? and we "would not know" if the jumbo jets were filled with vengeful chinese troops or happy tourists, untill it was too late. especially if they, unknown to us in the usa, went into the planes that were already schedueled to fly into the usa,replacing the passengers within and of course these airliners would be piloted by chinese military personnel...

and when the usa finally "falls apart' it will be invaded. sooner or later all countries are invaded by a foreign agressor and to live thinking that it will never happen to the usa, is to live and think in denial of reality...

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Yes, but then what is the good of any underground city?

It puts a bunch of dirt, concrete, and metals (probably some lead figuring in there) between you and the fallout on the surface as shielding to block and/or attenuate the gamma radiation. As I said before, the alpha and beta aren't even energetic enough to penetrate skin, The gamma falls off according to a mathematical rule through various thicknesses of other materials.

Filters are limited, and ground water will seep in on decades old concrete bunkers. And then of course there's air. You can keep that closed cycle yes, but just like the filters, that will also break down in time without a huge sum of plants. Which are going to require some sort of energy to keep lights on them. Which that in turn is going to require all sorts of technical issues as well.

Dirt has an amazing ability to filter out particulates like fallout, although local minerals and some times hazardous chemicals are often dissolved into it in the process. Generally speaking, fallout on the surface has decayed to 1/1000th of it's original strength after two weeks, so it all depends on the initial surface concentration deposited by the cloud as to what it will be after that time. The initial strength is further determined by depositional rate, which is affected by wind strength, speed, and direction, and precipitation. As a rough rule, the more widespread the fallout (high winds affect this) the weaker the concentration. It spreads farther, but is spread thinner. Precipitation washes it out of the air and creates local "hot spots", but material removed to cover them is no longer available to be spread. It's complex, and there are a lot of trade-offs.

One of the most dangerous products is Strontium-90. It ha s a longer half-life, and so gives it's radiation off more weakly, but it is taken up by plants, which in turn are eaten by cows, and gets passed on to humans through milk. Strontium-90 replaces calcium in that cycle. Once taken internally via consumption, it does the deed by irradiating cells inside the body. Ditto for radioactive iodine, which is why iodine tablets are given to saturate the thyroid so that none of the radioactive iodine finds a home in the body (causes thyroid cancer) and just passes through.

It just seems to me as though an underground city just exacerbates the long term survival problem. You're just not going to stop it. The only solution is to leave the planet all together.

It's not a matter of "stopping" it altogether, it's a matter of "hindering" it long enough for the radioactivity to decay to manageable levels. This again depends on local concentration, which is in turn affected by distribution patterns, and is largely unpredictable. It's stronger closer to the blast site (larger particles fall out first - gravity), but there can be "hot spots" any where down wind due to precipitation washing it out of the air locally. Some of the particles, such as the aforementioned Strontium-90, have to be guarded against for years, but are only dangerous if taken internally.

Furthermore, while larger radioactive elements may be stopped by filters, would there not be addition radioactive materials from elements in the environment less resistant to energetic influences? I think of iodine and other lower level particles that can still get through filters.

I addressed the iodine issue above - it's dealt with by saturation of the thyroid with iodine tablets to deny the radioactive iodine a bonding site, so it just passes through the system.

I came by this information years ago, during the Cold War, when there were all sorts of charlatans traveling around trying to scare the bejesus out of impressionable college kids and disseminating false information pursuant to a political agenda. all of the propaganda they were pushing scared me just enough to do my own research in the matter.

One of my favorite tactics they used back then was to say that "if a 100 megaton warhead hits Bristol, the damage effects will be..." and proceeded to give a horrendous account, always aimed at US. Pretty convincing and scary, but the account had problems. First there WAS no "100 megaton warhead" - the largest ever tested was the Tsar Bomba, estimated at 50-60 megatons, and it was so scary it never went into production. There is video of the test available on the internet these days. the largest we would have had to deal with was 3 MT or so, but there were very few of them, because they weren't cost-effective given damage vs. blast strength. See, explosion damage increases as the cube root of the yield, not linearly In other words, a hypothetical 27 MT bomb would only have 3 times the damage radius of a 1 MT bomb, not 27 times (1^(1/3)=1; 27^(1/3)=3). Bigger bombs just aren't cost effective.

The bulk are in the 100 KT range, not megatons at all.

Then there are the blast effects - there is an "optimal burst height" that maximizes mechanical damage, but then it doesn't produce any fallout. You have one or the other - not both. A detonation that produces fallout is a ground burst, and the damage is severely localized and limited because most of the energy is absorbed by the ground and buildings locally, not spread out. It takes a lot of energy to excavate that crater and throw the ejecta into the air to condense as fallout.

Like I said, it's a very involved subject that I probably ought not to go into any deeper here. Suffice it to say that yeah, it's a scary thing, but not as scary as most have been told. The propaganda surrounding the subject virtually guarantees more death, since it convinces folks that there is no use preparing when in fact there really is. No country will ever "win" a nuclear war (infrastructure damage removes them as a viable entity on the world stage), but people CAN "survive" one.

Originally posted by blocula

Originally posted by Laxpla
reply to post by blocula

 

Ugh, I don't want to spoon feed you and answers but it seems like I have too. When you look something up and try to advocate your radical theory please, please use some logic. It seems more interesting when you provide factual information. And please, answer my other questions in my previous post, you don't make any sense.

249 flights to between China and the United States a week. Averages out to 1.4 flights, per hour.

There is no Open Skies agreement with China. There is a restrictions on the flights, frequency, airlines, routes, security, etc.

Good day.

Edit: Your scenario I just read though again, I laughed, again. I don't really want to go through it and show you how flawed it is.

edit on 7-9-2011 by Laxpla because: (no reason given)

i did answer them in the above replies....does'nt anyone read the comments? and we "would not know" if the jumbo jets were filled with vengeful chinese troops or happy tourists, untill it was too late. especially if they, unknown to us in the usa, went into the planes that were already schedueled to fly into the usa,replacing the passengers within and of course these airliners would be piloted by chinese military personnel...

edit on 7-9-2011 by blocula because: (no reason given)

Dude, Seriously? Quit watching Red Dawn and start reading military strategies and you will see what you are saying is comical at best.

249 defined routed airliners from China carrying only Chinese Military Personnel, not going to happen, because Americans that can't get a flight out of China will be calling the US Embassy to complain and at that point the US Military would respond, long before they get to US borders. That's just one example of how the plan would be foiled.

There are very few possibilities that the US could be invaded. 'Very Few' and hundreds of China men invading the US on commercial airliners is NOT one of them.

They would have a better chance of invasion if they came in from Canada or Mexico. Hundreds if not thousands of illegal Mexican workers pass through our borders everyday. No it's not easy, but it's more of a possibility than coming over on airliners.

Reality is different than Hollywood. But keep on writing your script and maybe someone will produce it.

Im sorry but i cant do anything but laugh. I mean Chinese being smuggled into the US on planes and container ships? LMAO!!!! I swear kids these days watch WAY too much TV and play WAY too many video games. I could give over a thousand explanations as to why this wouldnt work, but to do this to enlighten one kid is not worth the bandwidth. im just scared that folks actually think this way.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
Im sorry but i cant do anything but laugh. I mean Chinese being smuggled into the US on planes and container ships? LMAO!!!!

I swear kids these days watch WAY too much TV and play WAY too many video games. I could give over a thousand explanations as to why this wouldnt work, but to do this to enlighten one kid is not worth the bandwidth. im just scared that folks actually think this way.

The scary thing is, this might not even be a kid, but a full grown adult But im going with kid