Survey Results: Origins and Evolution

reply to post by Section31

My belief system is based upon science, history, philosophy, and religion.

You declare these as separate whereas it seems religion (especially the abrahamic faiths) claim to profess an deep understanding of things philosophical, scientific and historical.

When we probe deeper, based on what evidence we have available now, it seems the ideas within religion are somewhat half-baked, or perhaps lost in translation, I'd be more inclined to go with the former.

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by Section31

 

My belief system is based upon science, history, philosophy, and religion.

You declare these as separate whereas it seems religion (especially the abrahamic faiths) claim to profess an deep understanding of things philosophical, scientific and historical.

I did? Hmmm.... Interesting.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

As I said in the reply you quoted, I consider them all to be telling the same story. Just from different angles.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by NeverForget

 

Again, yes it is nazi like. The only way to defeat an enemy is to use what they are against them. Many times this means becoming them.

The innocent of that war? Well hopefully after the first, or maybe even the 5th bomb, they'd be sensible to start a riot or revolt. I'd withhold bombing such a place. If they choose submission, they die with the rest.

Again, I have no rules in war. An enemy is an enemy, and their elimination is all that I care about. This is not good. It's efficient. And when dealing with Hitler, you only defeat him by becoming just as bad.

This only goes for war mind you. Once again, war and peace are different times, which call for different mindsets and treatment

I'm sorry to sound short, and I ensure you that I am neither angered nor perplexed, but what you have written in the last few posts has been nothing but contradictory babbel, and again I insist, rather inhumane. Fighting Hitler does not make you bceome Hitler, the only other option is to be consumed, and trampled on by a fascist regime.

Originally posted by NeverForget
When we probe deeper, based on what evidence we have available now, it seems the ideas within religion are somewhat half-baked, or perhaps lost in translation, I'd be more inclined to go with the former.

I have postulate earlier in this thread for the latter. Once humankind gets involved it screws up pretty much anything.

reply to post by Section31


Not my intention to put words in your mouth.

But if your going to say religion takes a different "angle". It would be an angle whereby the earth is only 6000 years, and healing lepors is a possible, and where man was made in the image of "GOD", despite evidence showing that we evolved from lesser beings.

Again, religious ideas are somewhat half baked, including moral values whereby women are stoned to death.

reply to post by SaturnFX


hmm, wonder if there's some way for me to mix that word "crap" around so that it comes out to be a compliment

well see, i figured that since the text referred to a changing of languages, and the akkadian equivalent text (Enmerkar and the Lord of Arrata) says a similar thing, that it must've been a historical event. Since babel means "Gate of God" and the akkadian cuneiform for god is also a star, that it must be "Star gate". it made sense. why else destroy a ziggurat? tall buildings weren't destroyed just because they were tall, and other buildings were used for astrology/astronomy, so couldn't have been that. must've been some other reason, such as the fact it was going to reach into heaven..literally.

according to the akkadian version, the sumerian god known as enki, used a thing called a namshub to confuse the languages. well namshub is from asaruludu "the shining god that illuminates our path". kinda threw me for a bit till i realized it was a deified gate name. he used the gate to confuse the languages. it was an AH HA! moment.

reply to post by NeverForget


Well we did. Like it or not. Did we not commit nuclear war? Did we not mercilessly bomb German cities without care? Without regard? Hitler used will power. So we showed him something stronger. And with the will destroyed, Germany returned to sanity.

I'm not really sure where it's contradictory. How I behave in terms of peace and war are contradictions. But that's because they entitle different responses.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by NeverForget
When we probe deeper, based on what evidence we have available now, it seems the ideas within religion are somewhat half-baked, or perhaps lost in translation, I'd be more inclined to go with the former.

I have postulate earlier in this thread for the latter. Once humankind gets involved it screws up pretty much anything.

Therefore, anything science, religion, or otherwise is subject to scrutiny. As ATSers we must first gather evidence, verify sources, and find the facts. Because the facts help us to see the truth.

reply to post by Blaine91555


I didn't see how it was skewed. Those questions seem similar to the ones in that poll.

reply to post by intrepid


So what parts of the bible do you believe are true, or worth investigating if you believe it's simply a case of "lost in translation".

Men didn't have such a large infrastructure of knowledge back then, when they didn't have answers, they'd guess. They didn't know any different, floods and other natural disasters were "punishment" to them.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by spikey

 

I don't really take offense to anything. I'm honest, I expect no different in return. I am saying it as it is. RG is flawed in his thinking because he is closed minded. I am not. That's really all I can tell, from what I know, that separates us.

Sorry I don't recall such a conversation, but I really don't recall much from any conversation. I still know all that I do about the sciences. And as you can see here I still do enjoy putting those people whom deny them up to the plate to answer for themselves.

A year ago I was mostly the same person I am now. Though I will admit to growing more angry, and in turn, more stable in controlling it. Occasionally you might spot a rant out of me if someone truly does deserve it. I'm surprised I did not do so on RG.

I'm not really all that bitter. But I was speaking in context to what I think on other, non scientific things.

Like I said, best description of me is a good honest person that knows a lot about many things, but with a fiery temper that, although well contained, is merciless once unleashed. I don't really view this as wrong, because it entitles you to being very friendly, noble, and absolutely unending in the defense of all that is good, truth, and loyal. I would walk that extra mile for a person. And you know what? I wouldn't feel any remorse in the destruction of those seeking to destroy that person I am walking that extra mile for.

edit on 30-8-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

Like you, i value honesty very highly, i appreciate yours, even though i find what you're being honest about brutal to the point of or even beyond barbarism.

It is in complete contradiction to everything i have ever thought or indeed felt went into making up the heart and mind of a Christian human being.

The slaughter of innocents?

Really Gorman, really?!

I am a father, two of the most beautiful boys on the face of this corrupt planet of ours. As a father i cannot fathom your justification of slaughter of similar children, even in historical times, based on a belief that god saw they were going to become corrupt at some future moment, so he destroyed them. Or more accurately, order OTHER HUMAN BEINGS to do the dirty work instead.

Isn't hell supposed to be for this purpose?

I don't find it particularly disturbing that 'God' wanted this done, as i can easily imagine multiple scenarios where ignorant men were told by other controlling and manipulative men, that 'God' had commanded the atrocity, and they. like apparently so many others throughout the ages, went along 'and followed orders', to wipe out the enemy and everything they held dear.

I do find it disturbing that here we are, thousands of years later and a member i counted as an intellectual friend of sorts, condoning such a thing, and expressing no concern or compassion for the victims.

I'm shocked, and i've seen a lot of things in my life that many would find staggeringly shocking, yet i am.

It's OK you don't remember our chat, it made an impact on me, that's why i remember it, it doesn't matter that you don't, it's fine.

We share a lot in common it seems Gorman. I too have noticed i am growing angrier as i grow older. Disillusionment and frustration with the apparent growing idiocy around me is the root of my anger...what do you feel is the root of yours?

I too happen to think Ron Paul would be not only great for your country, but great for the world in a knock on effect...as you obviously feel.

You acknowledge science has been of great benefit to our species, as i do, although we can both agree i'm sure, it also has a burden to bear for a great many of it's woes.

I too have seen military service, as i suspect you have.

But Gorman, all these things in common aside, we apparently diverge on not only core beliefs system, but on the value of an innocent human life it seems, and that i find truly and absolutely, unredeemably appalling.

You say you have tried different aspects or sects within Christianity, as you wished to learn where you belonged (essentially) but tell me, is your interpretation of Christianity such that you find that 'because it is transcribed, it is justified?'

Are not our recent historical and political records burgeoning with lies? At least potentially so?

Are our politicians and sycophants any different to, or any less devious and manipulative than those of a couple of thousand years ago, save for sophistication and method of deception for political gain?

Do you agree with slaughtering the innocent children of a current enemy, purely because a written order or a military pastor tells you it's gods will?

What happened back then, happened to human beings, just as the slaughter today is happening to human beings. Time changes nothing in regards of pain and suffering.
I hope you reconsider.

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by Section31

 

Not my intention to put words in your mouth.

But if your going to say religion takes a different "angle". It would be an angle whereby the earth is only 6000 years, and healing lepors is a possibility for a moral soul, and man was made in the image of "GOD", despite evidence that we evolved from lesser beings.

You missed the point.

When the "Book of Revelation" was added to the bible, I personally think it was man's way of saying. "we are in control". As a result of religious groups trying to control the word, they stopped listening to what he was saying. Sciences are extensions to the word of God, but in a more complex and in-depth manner.

I personally believe they cannot exit without each other.

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by intrepid

 

So what parts of the bible do you believe are true, or worth investigating if you believe it's simply a case of "lost in translation".

Men didn't have such a large infrastructure of knowledge back then, when they didn't have answers, they'd guess. They didn't know any different, floods and other natural disasters were "punishment" to them.

Ok then. How about this from Peter 1:

"Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the Emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right."

This is a direct contradiction to the teachings of Christ, clearly altered...

Even peter says watch out for false prophets, and that his writing are being misconstrued and 'corrected' aka distorted for the sake of worldly policy.

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by intrepid

 

So what parts of the bible do you believe are true, or worth investigating if you believe it's simply a case of "lost in translation".

I don't know. I WILL say that I think Jesus' message of peace and forgiveness, especially to ones fellow humans, is noble and correct. Was he the son of god though? Human nature is mostly power hunger and violent. "What's in it for me?" I don't think that has changed in 6000 years. That aside I see problems in the texts that have been handed down for millenia. Corruption from the Church? Kings? An interesting quote from a peace lover:

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

www.brainyquote.com...

Does that explain it?

reply to post by undo


Or it could have meant a drug, like magic mushrooms (that tend to grow overnight under the stars). Granted, your speculation sounds a bit closer to a potential eureka moment than just calling it drugs, but since both are on equal grounds, then its best not to start creating a grand mythos over a hypothesis.

Are there stargates? well, after 3 bajillion pages on your thread, your answer is "I don't know"....which is pretty much how it will always be unless some new information comes in to either completely validate the hypothesis, or debunk it once and for all...

But, such hypothesis's often come with a bunch of coat tail riders making up new and grand tales and attempt to turn it into a cult/religion.

Besides, only Daniel Jackson truely knows about them, and he is no longer talking to the public!

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The truly sad part of where this conversation is heading, is that all Conspiracy Theorists are part of a tiny minority themselves and yet they choose to attack others who may believe differently than they do.

The problem is not in the debate, but in the behavior of the debaters.

From Harris Vault - Harris Polls Interactive search. This is from 2009. (Search under the keyword God and all years.)

New York, N.Y. — December 15, 2009 — A new Harris Poll finds that the great majority (82%) of American adults believe in God, exactly the same number as in two earlier Harris Polls in 2005 and 2007. Large majorities also believe in miracles (76%), heaven (75%), that Jesus is God or the Son of God (73%), in angels (72%), the survival of the soul after death (71%), and in the resurrection of Jesus (70%).

Less than half (45%) of adults believe in Darwin’s theory of evolution but this is more than the 40% who believe in creationism.

These are some of the results of The Harris Poll of 2,303 adults surveyed online between November 2 and 11, 2009 by Harris Interactive.

The survey also finds that: 61% of adults believe in hell; 61% believe in the virgin birth (Jesus born of Mary); 60% believe in the devil; 42% believe in ghosts; 32% believe in UFOs; 26% believe in astrology; 23% believe in witches 20% believe in reincarnation – that they were once another person.

None of these numbers have changed much since previous surveys in 2005 and 2007.

From a CBS February 2011 Poll.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5ec4241400a7.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/47716626b83a.jpg[/atsimg]

Somebody earlier suggested that the ATS Poll means few believe and that this means a tiny number of believers are very vocal. It is however not only possible it actually means the believers skipped the Poll, it is likely they did judging by national polls taken for many years. I skipped it because the wording was not conducive to my answers being understood or relevant.

It will be interesting to see if non-believers take this clearly skewed poll as a signal to step up their attacks on those who believe differently than they do. I'm betting the hate speech goes up a notch.

Sorry for the long quote, and very sorry for the slur..

But my honest opinion?

Most Americans taking that survey didn't understand the questions, and ticked off what they thought they should.

Generalisation yes, honest opinion though.

We have an altogether more intelligent class of Americans on ATS obviously.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

You don't hang around cave men, expecting them to suddenly build civilization and join you in eternal peace in the stars.

There must of been Someone like Angels or to some ET's

My Viral Video

how GOD and Religion created?

Heaven does not exist in reality. Anything that exists in this reality can be observed, and in turn, modified or destroyed. If God, or anything else existed in this reality, they would by definition not be God. Because God cannot change. Things in this universe can change.

Heaven does not Exist ? Your right about what can not be Observed Modified or Destroyed Must not exist Unless its Not From What we can see like On this Planet But Another Place Dimension or Star Galaxy Universe Etc.. ''

I Do Not Have Beliefs in the ONLY One Might God of the Universe thing ,, but Just the One God to Lesser Gods Each Existing to a Life Form Living Planet Thing ..

Is There is a Command Chain Tree ?? According to the Hebrew Bible there is with Angels

Seraphim to Arch Angels to Common Angels AS every God Goddess Demigods to Angels
There is a Attribute and Virtue to each one !

Hierarchy of Angels
Christian angelic hierarchy
en.wikipedia.org...

Angel
en.wikipedia.org...

Angels
www.newadvent.org...

I would Tend to Think that there would be that kind of Structure Hierarchy to Gods
and that would be considered Paganism But the Fact is just The Hebrew Christian Thinking of Angels
of a Hierarchy Status of Virtue and Attributes Alone wold be Paganism

edit on 30-8-2011 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by spikey
We have an altogether more intelligent class of Americans on ATS obviously.

So... Rejecting and bashing religion makes you intelligent?

Interesting.

Next you will tell me that my culture makes me inferior.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by NeverForget
reply to post by intrepid

 

So what parts of the bible do you believe are true, or worth investigating if you believe it's simply a case of "lost in translation".

I don't know. I WILL say that I think Jesus' message of peace and forgiveness, especially to ones fellow humans, is noble and correct. Was he the son of god though? Human nature is mostly power hunger and violent. "What's in it for me?" I don't think that has changed in 6000 years. That aside I see problems in the texts that have been handed down for millenia. Corruption from the Church? Kings? An interesting quote from a peace lover:

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

www.brainyquote.com...

Does that explain it?

I like your quote, I'm sure i've heard something to that effect before:-

This is the one that walms my heart the most;-

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."

Parisian Denis Diderot

You don't need churches to aspire to be like Christ. Only a passion for your brothers and sisters, and life in general.

Although i will add, The preaching of Christ could do with some improvement, not until the introduction of the "gentle Jesus, meak and mild" was hellfire introduced.

Originally posted by Section31

Originally posted by spikey
We have an altogether more intelligent class of Americans on ATS obviously.

So... Rejecting and bashing religion makes you intelligent?

Interesting.

edit on 8/30/2011 by Section31 because: (no reason given)

Not at all. There's nothing to stop an Atheist from being idiotic and stupid. Likewise, a deist rejects religion, they can be stupid too.

Atheism is simply a disbelief in a deity, it says nothing about intellect, nor does it automatically qualify it.