Survey Results: Origins and Evolution

reply to post by cayrichard


cayrichard ever thought about using paragraphs? Its going to be very hard for anyone to digest that wall of text without them, i look forward to reading it when you include some line breaks.

reply to post by intrepid


I don't see why. He says why he would not destroy a place. That's a defined point. he then says why he wouldn't destroy a place, that's a defined point. These two points can be used to extrapolate why he destroyed or did not destroy any place.

It's not really circular at all. It's a point that produces a causality for the remainder of the Bible.

I mean let's just speculate further. The bears killing the youth story? Prior to that scene, the prophet went to the river and cast out the town's evil. It's only logical that those he met outside the town were that evil, and therefore their destruction is perfectly understandable.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

So, you're going to go ahead an use Humphrey's work as your basis for a young Earth? Are you really sure you want to do that? I mean he even has numerous young Earth Creationists criticizing his work. If you want to read an essay that draws together all of the criticisms of Humphrey's work here's one for you.

Dr. Humphreys' Young-Earth Helium Diffusion "Dates": Numerous Fallacies Based on Bad Assumptions and Questionable Data

edit on 30-8-2011 by Xcalibur254 because: (no reason given)

Sorry, i decline to read anything from the talkorigins.org website. And even if i did i am not a scientist so i could not fully understand what the scientific formulas ment. I trust YEC science over secularism any day though.

Honest question.
Why do you come to ATS?
the websites motto is "deny ignorance"...yet you deny anything that doesn't fit your already pre concieved notions. So, why come to a place that the whole point is to uncover the truth, even if it means being uncomfortable with the findings? Do you even understand why you come? Do you think all this fist shaking is simply your defense wanting to crumble...sort of like the last line of old school defense you subconscious are trying to rid yourself of in order to be free to think again, and you just need that one last crumbling before the wall of self imposed ignorance comes crashing down? If so, then why wait...kick it down yourself and allow yourself to think and research...to consider everything..

and if not, then why do you come to ATS specifically? Not that your not welcome here, hell, I am finding your posts very amusing and serve as a great example to the lurkers as the difference between a fundy and a agnostic/atheist...your doing a great job for us...but in a moment of concerned caring, I am wondering what your getting from it and why your bothering to exist on this website...

Don't take offense to the question...thats not the intent. I am simply trying to understand the motivation.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Of course i except science that fits with my world view...

I assume you mean "accept". Kinda funny when you think about it. Ironic really. You just admitted that you accept that which conforms to your own beliefs and discard the rest. That's a sure way to get to the truth.

And you know nothing of God's word if you did you would trust it and not rely on the theory's of MAN.

Or the words of man, if I may be as bold. That's what I believe the scriptures of today to be.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


...because you say so. Not anything though that I can find.

You've never really been able to prove me wrong because you cannot find any place in the Bible that says evolution is false. You've told me how God created the world. And you never showed me how it does not allow evolution.

Sorry bub, you've got nothing on me.

I say again, if you cannot accept that data on HIS Earth proves you wrong, you are not Christian.

reply to post by intrepid


I suppose it's all based off faith. Faith that God would care enough to ensure that his word remains true. After all if he didn't, kind of defeats the whole "I care so much for you I let you kill my own son".

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

And there we have it. Your entire belief in YEC is based on ignorance. You actually refuse to read science that proves your YEC "science" wrong. How is that being open minded or enlightened? You are willfully choosing to ignore evidence to the contrary because it contradicts your beliefs. You are doing the exact opposite of denying ignorance, you are gladly welcoming it with open arms. I fail to see how you can claim that we haven't looked at the facts when all of your information if propaganda coming from Creationist sources. I'm sure most of those arguing with you have looked at both sides of the argument and have drawn the conclusion that actually makes logical sense. One of us even used to be a YEC until he took the blinders off and actually looked at what both sides were saying. You have been hypocritical throughout this thread, but this just takes the cake.

Put your "evidence" into a formula that doesn't require a PhD to understand it and ill be happy to review it. Until then it means nothing to me when ive seen Young earth scientists put there evidence into a much more digestible format where it only takes some common sense to understand, you have proven nothing. What you are doing is the equivalent of telling a 5 year old to try and learn algebra.

Originally posted by Jim Scott
I have a great education from one of the top ten universities. I have spent a lot of years considering both sides of the problem.

Science bases it's knowledge on found facts. Religion bases it's faith on a belief in the word of God. They are two dissimilar groups: facts vs. faith.

I believe in the science 100%. I do not believe that God is so weak that He has to take billions of years. Therefore, the only logical conclusion that melds both the aged universe and the creation is that the universe was created instantly, but appearing aged. I'm ok with that. I can make furniture that looks aged. If I can do that, I'm sure God can do it with His furniture...etc.

Any other belief in God would be a God who is not omnipotent. A God who is not omnipotent, if He is the One True God, is not God. By definition, God must be omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, as a minimum.

Therefore, an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God created the Universe instantly, but appearing aged.

Questions?

Why would an omnipotent God create a universe where chance and free will were disallowed? What kind of life would there be if the outcome of every action and event were known? If nothing ever changed?

I personally think that 'natural selection' should not be interchanged with the theory of 'evolution' . A species gets a virus. 25% of the species is immune. 75% die off. The remaining population is 100% immune going forward. Natural selection. There isn't much "evolution" going on there. No one grew paws where there were fins.

Not challenging you - just posing the scenario.

Originally posted by Gorman91
These two points can be used to extrapolate why he destroyed or did not destroy any place.

And therein lies the problem.

Extrapolate:

verb
▸
to say what is likely to happen or be true by using information that you already have
more...
▸
to calculate an amount that you do not know by basing your calculations on amounts that you already know

www.onelook.com...

I suppose this eternal debate will be here when I come back around
this way as another person... it's a doozy!
I don't know why, but I keep thinking of this...
Do We Listen... And Let Him In?

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


There are Fossils in the Earth.

God saved all the animals of the Earth in Noah's ark.

The fossils are not creatures we see today.

These creatures died before Noah.

Before Noah, mankind was not allowed to hunt animals.

These creatures were before the time of Man, and died out by natural selection, which God willed.

Originally posted by cayrichard
I was blown away by the survey results and strongly disagree with it. I very much believe that a supernatural being was involved in the evolutionary process. In other words man did not evolve from a primordial soup via some intermediate biological entity to what he is today. There was interference.
Let's look at man first. Man aparently originated as a primate and evolved into a cro-magnan man and neandrethal and though gradual evolution became what he is today. There is still a missing archaeological link in the fossil record that is missing. The closest we have come is Lucy found by Dr. Leakey in Africa. Could this suggest that genetic experimentation by an alien race visiting

Stopping you right there

"Lucy" was just another step in a very large string of evolutionary steps already uncovered...it wasn't like 3 or 4 steps from monkey to man, we are talking dozens of steps already uncovered.

the "missing link" is a ignorant myth about some chimp in a suit or something...actually, not even fully sure when people use the missing link, which branch specifically confuses them as there is no missing link between monkey and man, there are tons of links between the two, many already uncovered.

here, even the wiki can perhaps give you a quick enlightenment on this matter:
Wiki on Human Evolution
Hell, the Homo species itself has over a dozen variations..much less ardipithecus, australopithecus, and other species that tie in before homo started springing up.

So, ya...lets do a bit more digging before starting to toss in yet another hypothesis based on bad science understanding.

reply to post by intrepid


Like I said, I do not claim to be an expert on the Bible. I've yet to finish reading it. I very may well find something that explains it better. I am extrapolating what I said based off what I know. I'm always open for other minds, because it helps forms understanding. I only ask you use the bible itself to prove what's in the bible false. I've not really found anyone whom can do this.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by intrepid

 

I suppose it's all based of faith. Faith that God would care enough to ensure that his word remains true.

EXACTLY. This we can completely agree on. The point remains, what if he doesn't exist? The book is questionable then. That said, I don't buy into atheism either. WE JUST DON'T KNOW!

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

 

...because you say so. Not anything though that I can find.

You've never really been able to prove me wrong because you cannot find any place in the Bible that says evolution is false. You've told me how God created the world. And you never showed me how it does not allow evolution.

Sorry bub, you've got nothing on me.

I say again, if you cannot accept that data on HIS Earth proves you wrong, you are not Christian.

Circular argument is your speciality isn't it? Your logic is flawed to the highest degree.

"There's nothing in the bible that says Evolution is false" - do you know how utterly stupid that argument would sound if you saying that in a real forum of debate? Honestly i do not think you know what your saying.

The reason its not proclaimed FALSE in the BIBLE is because it doesn't exist!

Do you think the bible need's to mention every crack pot theory and disprove it because an arrogant person like you will not accept God's word as being the truth and has to make his own alternatives UP?????

Aliens are also not included in the bible... why do u think that is? Perhaps because they are not real ether...

Oh great now we see a patten emerging. The bible only includes reality real things and doesn't have to disprove every little thought that pop's into your mind, yet evolution is already disproven WITH GENESIS, yet you still choose to believe in it. How more naive can you be? im really starting to think your trolling. Your the first guy ive ever seen claiming to believe in evolution and genesis which is the most retarded thing ive ever heard in my life.

reply to post by Gorman91


I'm not a big 'Bible-thumper' but I believe that if the Good Book is read
carefully and sensibly, then one never really gets to read it enough to
call it finished with!!

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Gorman91
Like I said, I wouldn't judge a man's character for one wrong deed, how ever selfish it was.

You may not but the OT god would have. Just look at the Pentateuch. I can give you dozens of scripture that shows that god does indeed judge people on one bad deed. But he was OK with this? Doesn't sound right to me.

There are even accounts of god instantly murdering a couple of teenagers for mocking a man because he was bald.

Gang rape = No problemo

Taking the piss out of alopecia = Instant death for kids.

Makes sense...god was going thin on top.

reply to post by intrepid


Gotta live the life man! Only way you learn. I was born into Catholicism, went agnostic, went atheist, went universalism, went full circle back to Catholicism. Now I'm some sort of "loyal opposition" catholic, pretty much only calling myself Catholic to shine my light on what it should be, and more or less spend my religious time with protestants.

You simply have to give every journey at least a few months to see where you wind up.

reply to post by Aeons

I hope you're not suggesting that almost identical sequence would evolve on another planet by chance following the same laws of natural selection. Because there's a very long chaotic sequence of events (still guided by natural selection) that resulted in ancestral insulin. The probability of the same exact chaotic sequence of events happening on another planet leading to the same amino acid sequence.. doesn't seem very likely to me.

Originally posted by spikey

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Gorman91
Like I said, I wouldn't judge a man's character for one wrong deed, how ever selfish it was.

You may not but the OT god would have. Just look at the Pentateuch. I can give you dozens of scripture that shows that god does indeed judge people on one bad deed. But he was OK with this? Doesn't sound right to me.

There are even accounts of god instantly murdering a couple of teenagers for mocking a man because he was bald.

Gang rape = No problemo

Taking the piss out of alopecia = Instant death for kids.

Makes sense...god was going thin on top.

Finally I can agree with the actions of God! Kids deserved it..smite away oh great smiter...and thank thee for thy gift of rogaine to your servents