Asserting Canadian Arctic sovereignty

Originally posted by Fox Molder
Did you also know that the Russian keep testing Canadian military response time and keep crossing the boarder in to Canadian air space at least once a week. The time the interception to the second. They know exactly how long it takes for the Canadian CF-18's to get there from either Bagotville or Esquimalt....... That being said...We need to get some F-35's up further north as soon as we get our hands on them !!!

You mean Bagotville and Cold Lake. Esquimalt is a naval base. There are usually a couple CF-18s based in Comox, but they are purely there for west coast missions. I think most Arctic sorties are flown from Cold Lake.

But I do think we should have an air base in the Arctic (like the US and Russians). I'm not sure where it should be placed but as far north as operationally possible. Even Yellowknife would be a vast improvement in response time.

Russia already planted their flag on the bottom of the arctic ocean with a sub. I'd say they have more claim to in now than Canada does.

Canada better stay off Russian soil.

reply to post by bluestreak53


Sorry, you are right...Cold Lake...Our equivalent to the American Top-Gun school is located there as well. Yeah, Yellowknife would be a good spot but Dawson in the Yukon would probably be a little better.

I think it time to populate the area but if you ask the people in Resolute, they will tell you that they are Canadians so....It's up to us to defend our land !

Originally posted by Fox Molder
Did you also know that the Russian keep testing Canadian military response time and keep crossing the boarder in to Canadian air space at least once a week. The time the interception to the second. They know exactly how long it takes for the Canadian CF-18's to get there from either Bagotville or Esquimalt....... That being said...We need to get some F-35's up further north as soon as we get our hands on them !!!

*cringe* Oh God, let's not touch the F-35 subject, those planes are probably the biggest money-pits ever, we should've pumped that $ into the F-18E/F "Super-Hornet" project instead, but I digress...
I agree that a new airbase is necessary in the north, I doubt the Russians can gain anything by violating our airspace, it's what's under the ice that they want.
BTW got any sources about Russian aircraft encroachment in the Arctic, the only thing I recall is something off the Atlantic about a year ago...

Originally posted by kro32
Russia already planted their flag on the bottom of the arctic ocean with a sub. I'd say they have more claim to in now than Canada does.

Canada better stay off Russian soil.

LOL

I'm afraid that won't be enough. If it was as easy as plantin' a flag...
Believe it or not, you actually have to stay there. That flag won't defend "your newly acquired land."

Originally posted by kro32
Russia already planted their flag on the bottom of the arctic ocean with a sub. I'd say they have more claim to in now than Canada does.

Canada better stay off Russian soil.

Russia's flag planting means nothing to Canada or the rest of the world for that matter, infact they admitted that it was purely "symbolic" similar to the US flag on the Moon (this doesn't mean the US owns the moon!). Now we all know that they don't mean that, but they've gone on record saying so.
If you check the relate news links you'll see:

Ted Nield, of the Geological Society in London, branded Russia's claim nonsensical. "The notion that geological structures can somehow dictate ownership is deeply peculiar," he said. "Anyway, the Lomonosov Ridge is not part of a continental shelf - it is the point at which two ocean floor plates under the Arctic Ocean are spreading apart. "It extends from Russia across to Canada, which means Canada could use the same argument and say the ridge is part of the Canadian shelf. "If you take that to its logical conclusion, Canada could claim Russia and the whole of Eurasia as its own."

As you can see, it's an invalid point.
Read more: here

Originally posted by Konstantinos

Originally posted by Fox Molder
Did you also know that the Russian keep testing Canadian military response time and keep crossing the boarder in to Canadian air space at least once a week. The time the interception to the second. They know exactly how long it takes for the Canadian CF-18's to get there from either Bagotville or Esquimalt....... That being said...We need to get some F-35's up further north as soon as we get our hands on them !!!

*cringe* Oh God, let's not touch the F-35 subject, those planes are probably the biggest money-pits ever, we should've pumped that $ into the F-18E/F "Super-Hornet" project instead, but I digress...
I agree that a new airbase is necessary in the north, I doubt the Russians can gain anything by violating our airspace, it's what's under the ice that they want.
BTW got any sources about Russian aircraft encroachment in the Arctic, the only thing I recall is something off the Atlantic about a year ago...

edit on 25-8-2011 by Konstantinos because: (no reason given)

I think at some point they are going to have to go through some more comprehensive assessment to justify the F-35 purchase. It certainly seems unclear whether its the "best choice" for our needs. Maybe we should have a mix of craft - a few F-35s for NATO commitments and another craft for other territorial defense needs? I don't know.

I think that Russia regularly flies missions to the edges of Canadian air space, although I don't know if this happens on a weekly basis. We certainly are not provided info on most incidents as they are really just "routine" exercises.

reply to post by bluestreak53


Agreed on the re-justification of the F-35s even the US Air Force is having second thoughts about the program because costs continue to climb.
Ideally, I would want our NATO shared force to be Typhoons (A Euro fighter? Oh no! LOL) and Domestic defense F-18E/Fs hopefully Harper will come to his senses and try to get out of the F-35 hole.
Canada has never (and probably never will) have much of an intimidating force, especially compared to Russia.
Truth is, we will need US assistance in protecting our Arctic Sovereignty. Let's just hope that the US is more interested in helping us, instead of cutting a profitable deal with the Russians to plunder everything up there...

The old and decrepit CF-18's are falling apart, they cost more to repair that to purchase new. Yes the F-35 is an expensive piece but.....When you look at the bib picture, it's not all that bad. This plane should be in service for 35 years, it is completely compatible with all other joint strikers thus meaning that we can land on U.S. carriers with no refitting of planes. No need to change the refueling nozzles either, they will come standard, just like all the others. We will now be able to cross train our pilots, no more need to bring our antiques to top gun anymore.

These planes will come with a 10 year service contract, meaning..."bumper to bumper" warranty for 10 years with unlimited flight time, part included. Imagine that....

So yeah, it looks like a lot of money...Heck...It is a lot of money but this is way over do, we desperately need an air force revamp and a navy revamp. Our army just got a bunch of new toys....Let the other ones get theirs...

reply to post by Fox Molder


Well, I was actually talking about the F-18E/F which is FAR superior to the CF-18s currently in service.
See here @ $55M each

Meanwhile the F-35's (who's Stealth capabilities have recently been brought into question) originally were supposed to cost $50M each, but have now inflated to $133M!
Leading think-tanks criticize the sale: see here

That's a ton of money on a fighter that if is truly unable to use stealth technology is comparable to the F-18E/F Super-Hornet

Thank you for the additional info.

Maybe it's time that we build out own fighter jet here in Canada......Oh....Wait....we tried that before....Remember the Avro arrow....Wow what a political fiasco that was....But really....Maybe we should build out own!!!! I'd love to see that happen again !!!

reply to post by Fox Molder


Oh fox so would I!
The Arrow I think was sold out, it would be nice if we could design and build our own, but that would mean less money exchanging hands with our southern neighbours, which pretty much gaurantees a failure.
Haven't we already given up patrolling the pacific coast and handed it over to the US Coast Guard? (I'll try and find the source where I read that)
Soon we'll be like Puerto Rico... a US protectorate LOL

Originally posted by Konstantinos


As the world focuses on Libya, Syria and the US economy; Russia and Denmark are slowly but surely planning on claiming the Arctic and it's resources.
What astounds me now is that China is planning on doing the same thing, it should be interesting to see how China can possibly lay any claim to the Arctic, but apparently they are building ice-breakers as fast as possible for "research".
It's funny how nobody had any issues with Canada owning the Arctic until it was discovered that the natural resources and potential shipping lanes may become available.
Canada needs to assert it's sovereignty along with the US (Alaska) as it seems that a Russia/China partnership is planning on taking it all.
Not too worried about the Danes though, at least they are NATO members (if that even counts for anything anymore!)

m.torontosun.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

The Danes are looking for scraps, they know any claim they may make would be worthless without the backing of Canada and the USA.

Easy solution to the Chinese: Blow up any Chinese ship that attempts to pass through the Berring strait.

Our borders, our north, our arctic, our resources. Sorry chums, but Hands Off.

I may not agree with Harper politically on some points, but he'll gain big points with me if he shows that he's willing to step up and tell anyone who won't respect OUR territory and borders to "'eff off, eh". If those resources and wealth lie within our borders, it's Canada's right and no one else's to decide what happens with it.
And if you ask me, there could be some major Canadian jobs to be created by securing and tapping those resources, no? Something for the politicians to consider...