Theists, Why Should I Believe?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by filosophia
Your problem is you think there is a deity you need to look for, when the actual truth is a Natural law that permeates all things. Time itself. If Time did not exist, no particle of time could exist.

God is the light within the mind.

It seems you've claimed that god is an "actual truth" (which in turn is a natural law), and that god is time, and that god is a "light within the mind". I'm not sure what that means.

Also, what is a "particle of time"?

Particle of time = the present moment

The light in the mind is the objective vision of God.

Time itself (Eternity) = Truth = Light

These words describe one thing (Absolute Truth, Self).

Originally posted by filosophia
Particle of time = the present moment

The light in the mind is the objective vision of God.

Time itself (Eternity) = Truth = Light

These words describe one thing (Absolute Truth, Self).

Thanks. This still doesn't make sense to me.

Can you rephrase your stance without the allegory?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


I was an atheist who realized the only intellectually honest position with my philosophy of materialism was nihilism. Since there was no point to anything at all, I figured I would give it a try to seek Him with all my heart because I read that somewhere somehow. I prayed to Him begging for an experience, without which I could not believe, woke up one day, experienced things, gave up my previous lifestyle, had doubts, woke up again and experienced invisible stigmata, let people convince me it was not real, fell into active nihilism but kept reading the bible because I wasn't completely convinced my experiences were delusions, one day reached a certain passage that reached out to me, experienced even more things, and since then I believe in it 100%. On certain days like around Christmas and Easter I still feel the stigmata, even if I'm not thinking about it or in a country where people follow Christianity. I'll never forget the experience of the light that filled my body. It was pure bliss.

I think that unless you WANT to find Him, truly, without pretension, He will let you pass Him by. And the sad part is people still think you delude yourself or use it as a crutch because they have not experienced spiritual reality. The only time when you truly want to find Him is when you are in a life crises too, otherwise when people are content with their lives they don't think of God or they are not humble before Him and so they ask but do not truly seek.

Here's the crux of the matter: If you do not come to Him on His terms, you will not be able to find Him. And if you truly believe He doesn't exist, you will not come to Him on His terms. The minute you do, you realize that it's not delusion. But if you take the leap of faith people will believe it's delusion, that you just manifested all the things you experience with your mind. And even as you read testimonies like this, you become even more convinced it's delusions, so you will not seek Him out.

Originally posted by 547000
I think that unless you WANT to find Him, truly, without pretension, He will let you pass Him by.

Then it's impossible to tell if Hide & Seek god is real or whether it's an illusion caused by a deep desire to experience a deity. This also presumes that this god has no intention of ever interacting with the rational or skeptical individual - that he is exclusive and esoteric.

It could be but there's a lot to be suspicious of....

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by 547000
I think that unless you WANT to find Him, truly, without pretension, He will let you pass Him by.

Then it's impossible to tell if Hide & Seek god is real or whether it's an illusion caused by a deep desire to experience a deity. This also presumes that this god has no intention of ever interacting with the rational or skeptical individual - that he is exclusive and esoteric.

It could be but there's a lot to be suspicious of....

Well, I found certain passages that may explain why I wasn't able to find Him when I was haughty and filled with intellectual pride. Look up passages the foolishness of man and god, read psalms about wisdom and foolishness, humbleness and pride, and worldliness. It's only hide and seek because we have faith in our own scientific and philosophical wisdom. We are in a position from which we can't tell whether our scientific assumptions are correct or not. We may build things, rule over nature, create many abstractions and philosophies, but in the end the more faith we place in these things, the greater our humiliation will be when it's revealed to be bunk, and we will lose the treasure that is heaven while those we chide as being fundamentalist fools will be the ones exhalted.

Originally posted by 547000
Well, I found certain passages that may explain why I wasn't able to find Him when I was haughty and filled with intellectual pride.

This begs the question as to why we should believe religious scriptures to be true. Also, you said you had found god. I'm assuming this meant you had some subjective experience where you had some interaction with a deity. Am I correct or am I way off base? If you did have an interaction with a deity, why would you need religious literature?

We are in a position from which we can't tell whether our scientific assumptions are correct or not.

Actually, the scientific method is a way to tell whether our scientific assumptions are correct. What we don't seem to have is a way to determine if our religious assumptions are correct.

Hey 547000, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me. I have enjoyed it.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


The thing is, science presumes a material world. Most people's construction of reality is based on science, and on this presumption. We also presume such things like time is uniform, the laws of physics are uniform all throughout time, and so forth. We do not leave room for there to be actions which violate our currently known laws, or for an entity to do so. Hence most people do not believe in even the possibility of virgin births, resurrections from the dead, and feeding the poor with a loaf of bread and some fish. Because we believe such miracles are impossible, we say these things cannot happen. Even the Jews did not deny the miracles, but called Jesus Yeshu the sorceror, having the power of demons or the secrets of God's name.

As for scripture, I would say that unless I remembered some scriptures, I would never think of trying to seek God with all my heart. Yes, I have had subjective experiences, but my experiences have been experienced by others too. Look up many Catholic miracles. I did not even know of the experience of invisible stigmata but I know from personal experience that it is true. Scripture can lead many people to seek God for themselves.

I enjoy this conversation too.

reply to post by 547000


Did you try reaching out to other gods as well, or just the one you currently believe in?