Theists, Why Should I Believe?

Wow, lots of interesting answers here.

All I'm going to say is, when I heard about God the first time in my life, it was from my mom, and she said: Hon, you are old enough to know this now, you have a creator, you are not alone in this universe, this creator has created everything in the universe and you too. you were not created aimlessly.

And it just hit a cord with me. It made sense. Still does.

Thats pretty much why I believe.

Why should you? Because everything was created for a reason. And so were you.

It's difficult to answer this, OP; because I don't know anything about who you are, or your life experience. Some would take the very fact that you are asking this question, as being indicative that God is beginning to reach out to you.

hinduism.co.za... - You might find this interesting. It's the story of one of Sri Ramakrishna's disciples, who for a time was also an atheist.

I will link a couple of different bhajans for you to listen to, as well. Whether or not they resonate with you, will of course be up to you. There is a lot of other information about Hinduism at the same site.





- This is a contemporary song in praise of Lord Odin, the leader of the Aesir. They also have scripture, the Book of the Raven.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
The fact that you are asking either means you would like to believe, or you are just attempting to ridicule believers.

That is not correct. I'm unable to believe anything that doesn't have a rational basis. And if I wanted to ridicule believers I could do so without starting a new thread.

For those who do have religious beliefs I'm simply interested in what exactly they found convincing about an otherwise unjustifiable set of beliefs.

Originally posted by ShadowMonk
Nobody can make you, nor should they. It is your decision alone to make. Why did you bother blowing up over it?

If I came off as "blowing up over it" perhaps I misstated myself. I'm genuinely curious about other's reasons for belief. I have no emotional investment in anyone's beliefs or lack thereof.

I, specifically, believe in a divine creator for the mere wonder of our construction. Just as you would look at a watch on a table and know instinctively that there had to have been someone who assembled it, so I look at all of creation. The chances of it happening accidentally are the equivalent to me placing watch pieces in a crate with precisely the amount of parts to make an untold amount of watches, shaking the box, and all the watches being assembled perfectly on a single shake. But that is merely my view on it.

Thanks. As you surely already know, this is called "the watchmaker argument". I have found that for me, arguments from design become very problematic after applying a bit of scrutiny to them.

Those that use the argument from design to validate their god usually don't just believe in Creator God. They almost always also believe in a god that cares about what we all do. How do most people get from Creator God to say, the god of the Jews or some other god with specific qualities?

Originally posted by GmoS719
You haven't felt God because you haven't attempted to.
"The more I seek you, The more I find you"
Sounds to me like you need to so some soul searchin

For those who make this argument or a similar one, please realize that yes, I have genuinely, sincerely and honestly tried to find and/or feel any number of the gods purported to exist in our times. I appreciate the advice but it just doesn't ever seem to work. Even if it did could it ever render anything more than a subjective experience?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by GmoS719
You haven't felt God because you haven't attempted to.
"The more I seek you, The more I find you"
Sounds to me like you need to so some soul searchin

For those who make this argument or a similar one, please realize that yes, I have genuinely, sincerely and honestly tried to find and/or feel any number of the gods purported to exist in our times. I appreciate the advice but it just doesn't ever seem to work. Even if it did could it ever render anything more than a subjective experience?

What is any 'experience' but a subjective experience? Even as objective reality is in front of you, you can only experience it subjectively. Your beliefs will shape your perceived reality. So if you haven't found God, it's because your beliefs won't allow you. I can prove it. I'll tell you from my own experience that God is love, but you are going to say that is impossible because love is nothing more than a chemical reaction in the brain. And that would be why you haven't found God. It is because you refuse to believe that perhaps science is a little off base with the nature of what exactly you are and how exactly this particular chemical reaction happens.

I can tell you that the experience of love is something different than love itself, although the experience of love is an accurate translation of a degree of love experienced as a feeling. Love itself will act on your brain and cause it to have a chemical reaction so that you can 'experience' love by resonating with it in your thought patterns, but that is just how you 'experience' love. Love is always here although not always apparent. And if you could find room to accept this belief, you may experience God for yourself and know.

If you find it hard to believe, read this so that it might make more sense to you.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by nusnus


You said
[Wow, lots of interesting answers here.

All I'm going to say is, when I heard about God the first time in my life, it was from my mom, and she said: Hon, you are old enough to know this now, you have a creator, you are not alone in this universe, this creator has created everything in the universe and you too. you were not created aimlessly.

And it just hit a cord with me. It made sense. Still does.

Thats pretty much why I believe.

Why should you? Because everything was created for a reason. And so were you]

Man, I'm such a sentimental sap. You got me all misty.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

God is love.

Love itself will act on your brain and cause it to have a chemical reaction so that you can 'experience' love by resonating with it in your thought patterns, but that is just how you 'experience' love. Love is always here although not always apparent. And if you could find room to accept this belief, you may experience God for yourself and know.

So let's say I did just that. It appears that all I'd be doing is changing my perspective and beliefs on love. I'm still uncertain how this is an actual religious experience.

You assert "god is love". I know what love is and have experienced it. How is this anything different from simply redefining words we already have definitions for? How is this different from a pantheist claiming "god is the universe"?

Originally posted by randyvs
Why should you? Because everything was created for a reason. And so were you]

Man, I'm such a sentimental sap. You got me all misty.

Hi randyvs. I hope you've been well.

I think you have unconsciously said a lot here. That is, that some kinds of religiosity are deeply steeped in emotion and may persist because of its emotional appeal. I can understand that part very well.

What interests me is how otherwise rational, intelligent people come to find believable claims such as a messiah literally resurrected from death, or a prophet literally riding a flying horse to heaven or any number of other claims in religious texts that under normal conditions the same people would dismiss as fantasy if, say, someone in their office told them the same story.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by smithjustinb

God is love.

Love itself will act on your brain and cause it to have a chemical reaction so that you can 'experience' love by resonating with it in your thought patterns, but that is just how you 'experience' love. Love is always here although not always apparent. And if you could find room to accept this belief, you may experience God for yourself and know.

So let's say I did just that. It appears that all I'd be doing is changing my perspective and beliefs on love. I'm still uncertain how this is an actual religious experience.

Your beliefs shape how you perceive reality, so if you want to perceive God, you have to first believe in what he is to allow yourself to experience that perception.

You assert "god is love". I know what love is and have experienced it.

Just because you have experienced love doesn't mean you know what it is.

How is this anything different from simply redefining words we already have definitions for?

Again, the way you define reality determines how you experience it.

How is this different from a pantheist claiming "god is the universe"?

You have to read that link. The universe is intelligent energy. It is capable of learning, observing, and intelligent work. God is love/joy. God is the animator. Time moves forward because God is initiating the kinetic. Read the link.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by randyvs
Why should you? Because everything was created for a reason. And so were you]

Man, I'm such a sentimental sap. You got me all misty.

Hi randyvs. I hope you've been well.

I think you have unconsciously said a lot here. That is, that some kinds of religiosity are deeply steeped in emotion and may persist because of its emotional appeal. I can understand that part very well.

What interests me is how otherwise rational, intelligent people come to find believable claims such as a messiah literally resurrected from death, or a prophet literally riding a flying horse to heaven or any number of other claims in religious texts that under normal conditions the same people would dismiss as fantasy if, say, someone in their office told them the same story.

I'm good and hope you're of the same. Don' t know what happened to Mr. XYZ tho and the last I heard, he was in
the middle of London town knock'in heads. I really hope he's ok. Kind a bugs me not see'in his hooded persona
on top of my every post. Go figure that one.

Anyway, I swear, I knew you'd say something to that effect.

PS

We know each other well enough you can just call me Randy stud. R or Ra or RS

Let's see:
Why should you specifically believe?

Are you comfortable not believing? If so there really is no reason for you to believe. If belief in a deity is problematic for you on a personal level and a logical level, there really is no reason to believe in anything.

Why should anyone believe?

As you have above stated comfort is a main reason behind belief, and many people feel safe believing that they are considered and were created by something higher and that there is a plan for them, however I see this as an illogical reason to believe.
I think people should believe in a deity if and when it seems a logical conclusion for them, or if and when they have a personal experience for which that is what they consider to be the most appropriate explanation, and if and when they decide that their life is lacking in spirituality.

Why do I specifically believe?

Well I was born to a Greek Orthodox mother and a father with no definite religion but definite belief in a deity of sorts. I had always just taken belief as a granted thing until I realized that it was called belief and not knowledge / fact for a reason.

After realizing that I thought long and hard about whether I wanted to believe anything and whether it made sense to me, and my (possibly not so logical) logic is that the universe must have come from something, even if that something was nothingness, and I guess nothingness is perfection because if there is nothing, there can't be anything wrong. From that I concluded that perfection created the universe, and whatever that perfection was is my deity. Be it an energy or a lack of energy or a particle or whatever it may be, it is praiseworthy to me.

I guess believing that nothing created everything could revert back to atheism but I believe that nothing is something / that nothing is God.

deny knowledge!

Originally posted by ChloeAUTM
I guess believing that nothing created everything could revert back to atheism but I believe that nothing is something / that nothing is God.

Nothing is something? If I have nothing in my bank account, I can use that to purchase something?

reply to post by Hydroman




I'm not saying you can purchase things with nothing, but feel free to try! It always tastes better if it's free.
What I'm getting at is that lack of something is something.
Not particularly that lack of something is the original thing you are lacking.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Theists,

Why should I believe? Why should anyone believe?

Though belief in deities may provide a sense of relief during moments of unpleasant human emotions (grief, desperation, fear, etc.), how does the same brain in a rational state justify belief in something indistinguishable from the non-existent? If you are a theist, why should I or anyone believe in your god(s)? Why specifically do you believe?

Thanks!

The very fact that there was that first brain that invented something that (let's face it) can only be seen as completely incompatible with everything that such a brain could ever believe to be real and tangible, seems to be the best evidence that something instructed that first brain in the extremely counterintuitive notion that not only does intelligent personalitied life exist that cannot be perceived, but that it represents the true essence of the human being itself, and is responsible for the existence of all that can be perceived - including that brain and its own physical existence. This may seem like primitive thinking to the modern western mind, but the truth is that such a conceptual construct is extremely sophisticated, and there's literally nothing that exists as perceivable by the human brain that actually contributes (without the human mind's own extrapolation in assistance) to the initial emergence of such a bizarre notion.

In short, the very existence of the concept of God is the best evidence that such a being (in general, if not specifically) does exist in one form or another. Even if one embraces any one of the "ancient alien" theories, the issue of crafting that specific non-corporeal concept remains a buzz saw in that particular doorway. After all, even space aliens - as advanced as they may be - would've still had to somehow developed this extremely illogical premise out of whole cloth for it to not be based on something instructively tangible. We see it as a no-brainer, but that's because it - as inherited DNA survival directive information - has been instinctive (in its own way) for quite some time now within the human genome. It's not so easy to appreciate just how unlikely the notion should be for even the most intelligent corporeal brain to fathom, let alone embrace as a default certainty.

Originally posted by ChloeAUTM
What I'm getting at is that lack of something is something.
Not particularly that lack of something is the original thing you are lacking.

You are over my head. I don't understand how nothing is something. To me, nothing is nothing and something is something.

reply to post by Hydroman


It's a tough concept for me to explain. Nothing is something in the way that zero is a number, almost.

Originally posted by NorEaster
In short, the very existence of the concept of God is the best evidence that such a being (in general, if not specifically) does exist in one form or another.

How so?

We have concepts of leprechauns, unicorns and chupacabra yet the concepts do not serve as evidence of their existence.

Originally posted by ChloeAUTM
I guess believing that nothing created everything could revert back to atheism

Doubtful, as I've never met an atheist who thought any such thing.

Belief that everything was created is almost exclusively a theist viewpoint.