Theists, Why Should I Believe?

Theists,

Why should I believe? Why should anyone believe?

Belief in deities seems to be problematic for me because they don't seem apparent and don't seem to be detectable. Many people claim to have subjective experiences that have confirmed the existence of a deity for them, but I haven't had one. Texts of all kinds claim to be written by or inspired by a living deity though all such texts appear to be simply literature, watermarked by the limited knowledge and ignorance present in the epochs in which they were written.

Though belief in deities may provide a sense of relief during moments of unpleasant human emotions (grief, desperation, fear, etc.), how does the same brain in a rational state justify belief in something indistinguishable from the non-existent? If you are a theist, why should I or anyone believe in your god(s)? Why specifically do you believe?

Thanks!

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


If you have to ask you haven't been touched by God so your belief would be false anyways. If God hasn't spoken to you maybe he doesn't want you as part of his kingdom.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Why should I believe? Why should anyone believe?

That's a personal question you have to answer yourself.


The fact that you are asking either means you would like to believe, or you are just attempting to ridicule believers.

One is negative, one is positive...which type of person are you?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


You haven't felt God because you haven't attempted to.
"The more I seek you, The more I find you"
Sounds to me like you need to so some soul searchin

If you seek Him with all your heart you will find Him.

The alternative to finding Him is too terrible for any living thing.

I believe in Him because I begged Him to give me something to hold onto so I know He exists. He has given me such religious experiences.

Take the title of this thread, insert it in the ATS search bar and you'll find that this has been discussed to death and there is no need to start more threads like this. Happy reading.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Theists,

Why should I believe? Why should anyone believe?

Belief in deities seems to be problematic for me because they don't seem apparent and don't seem to be detectable. Many people claim to have subjective experiences that have confirmed the existence of a deity for them, but I haven't had one.

That's because subjective experiences of spiritual things require a belief as step one. You have to believe first. And its not really belief in a deity as much as it is belief in what that deity represents. Usually that is love. Now I know love may be a product of chemical reaction, but that does not degrade the profoundity of the experience of it. Love is all you need to believe in, and personally, I believe that that love has a quality of intelligence. Any spiritual deity that you may encounter will have an aura of love or fear that is beyond any quality of it you have ever experienced. E.T.s are usually the deities cited in the texts.

Though belief in deities may provide a sense of relief during moments of unpleasant human emotions (grief, desperation, fear, etc.), how does the same brain in a rational state justify belief in something indistinguishable from the non-existent? If you are a theist, why should I or anyone believe in your god(s)? Why specifically do you believe?

Thanks!

Its like you said, they exist only subjectively, so while there may not be any objective evidence of their existence, yet, there is plenty of subjective evidence, and you should not underestimate the human brain's legitimate subjective credibility. imo.

Seems like you are asking for a sales pitch. It just doesn't work that way.

You don't have to believe. Everyones has their own opinion. You shouldn't judge people because they believe in something as well as they shouldn't judge atheists who don't believe in god.

I you want to find a reason to believe, i hear reading bible helps.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


You don't have to believe. Every doctrine teaches that there will be those who refuse to believe. If you don't want to believe, so be it. Nobody can make you, nor should they. It is your decision alone to make. Why did you bother blowing up over it?

I, specifically, believe in a divine creator for the mere wonder of our construction. Just as you would look at a watch on a table and know instinctively that there had to have been someone who assembled it, so I look at all of creation. The chances of it happening accidentally are the equivalent to me placing watch pieces in a crate with precisely the amount of parts to make an untold amount of watches, shaking the box, and all the watches being assembled perfectly on a single shake. But that is merely my view on it.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Dear traditionaldrummer,

Who said you should believe? Not, I. Believe that you are meaningless and that this is the best it will ever be for you. You are a fluke of the universe, a wart on existance that will be removed. Why do you ask people like me who believe in the tooth fairy or something similar to prove anything, be happy in not believing. Now here is what is important, believe that others exist and be useful, help them, make life nicer. Be of value even if it is only for the few meaningless moments that you are alive. Believe that people matter.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


HeHeHe I'm your first flag and star my nemesistic monarc of doubt.

I like the question and your thread, but I know very well, that you haven't asked because you want to be convinced. Nor shall you be. For me, I believe, because it makes more sense than the universe farted itself into existence. I don't mean to put anyone down by that but you asked partner. There are so many reasons after that one, but we can begin our odyssey there if you like.


Why should you believe? Obviously you shouldn't. Unless you can figure out that righteousness comes from someone somewhere. That it is more than just a perspective. It is an idea that originated somewhere other than the mind of man. Then you shouldn't believe anything other than your simple facts. Does it make sense to you that being able to explain the machanics of any design negates the designer ? It's all to apparent to me that if I eliminate God ? I can't stop there. It begins a concatenation of eliminations that simply can not be.

No God = No design and so on and on and on.

The first few answers are rubbish 'oh you have to find him' kind of crap.

Originally posted by Blue Goblin
The first few answers are rubbish 'oh you have to find him' kind of crap.

Do you think believing is more than just a choice?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Why should I believe? Why should anyone believe? ... If you are a theist, why should I or anyone believe in your god(s)? Why specifically do you believe?

Thanks!

I'd classify myself as omni-theistic. More specifically an omni-theistic possibilianist.



So while I agree that the evidence is questionable, and that it's hard to imagine anyone has ever heard the voice of a supernal god. I'm still willing to leave open the possibility that there's something more.

This is the "possibilianist" part of the equation.

What provided a bit more clarity amongst the set of all possibilities is a concept called "The Scarcity Hypothesis." After spending a couple days thinking about the paper, I was convinced not only of the potential for "god," but that such a thing was probable. Not that I believe in one with any sort of divinity, but the argument is strong and sound. I doubt I can do the idea justice so I won't attempt to summarize. So I'll just encourage you to read the paper, but the author refers to the concept as "omni-theism."

You don't want to become a damaged, delusional, mindless, brainwashed religious robot that does nothing but stunt the growth of humanity, do you? Gods don't exist, and belief in them causes more trouble than they're worth.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Why should I believe? Why should anyone believe?

That's a question best asked of yourself.

Nothing I can say... or that anyone else could offer, will change your mind. You have to search within and find your own avenue to what you believe and disbelieve. Others may offer you various bits of information they feel will help you do that... but the final choice is, and always has been, the individual's to make.

You must choose your own path and understand that you and you alone are responsible for that choice. Right or wrong, it is your call.

To believe or not to believe. That's the question.

Does it matter? As long as you recognize your own potential, you should be good.

And what potential we have. We weren't born with wings, so we made our own. This is the story of humanity. Taking knowledge and putting it to work.

But I mean, look at all we have. We have duality. There are 'good' things and 'bad' things, and you are free to choose which ones you want to acquaint yourself with. You are free to think subjectively or objectively, and both are viable means of learning. Theres nothing wrong with objective thinking or subjective thinking. To each his own.

You want proof of the existence of a deity? I say look in the mirror. And then speculate. How great of beings are out there if they could be millions of years older than us? There are Gods out there.

First, you need to know what to believe. Belief is recognizing the Holy Spirit. This is better defined as the preexistence of consciousness. Blasphemy is the only sin that will not be forgiven. Defined, this is denying the preexistence of consciousness. In other words, you are stating, through unbelief, that you think consciousness cannot be more than you. When we place ourselves above what preexisted ourselves, we are placing the self (I AM) above the consciousness that it originates from.

Now consider this: What do you do? Really? What do you do to exist? What do we actually do apart form animated observation of the story from our consciousness? If you look closely, you see that we are on autopilot. Do you make your hair grow? Do you activate the cones and rods in your eyes for sight? Do you digest your food? Do you make the sun shine or the earth warm? Look close. All functions of the human and his reality are produced by God. Nothing is our choice apart from moving our vehicle (Body). This allows us to create and to express our free will with words and actions. All actions and words affect us and others. All other actions to support this process are done by God, apart form our conscious effort.

So now we have a basis for belief from a platform of two pieces of evidence. First, we have a reason to believe. I AM, YOU ARE, WE IS... Consciousness is common to all living things. We can easily understand that something determines the difference between matter which is animated and matter which is non-living. Second, we see that we have nothing to do with what makes us animated.

Can we add more evidence? Consider this: You are viewing my thoughts in the form of an image. I am not here right now, but I exist. You are reading my thoughts despite the fact that I may be in some undetermined location. I could even be sleeping right now, yet you are in my image reading my thoughts. My words are also in the image of ATS. They are also in the image of your computer screen.

Genesis

1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

We are literally in an artificial image. We are also in the image of God. Two different ways of saying where and how we are. The key word here is to understand that an image is artificial to what it represents. In other words, this verse tells us that we are not really here, but somewhere else. The image is where our consciousness perceives we are. I would say Matrix at this point but the movie was based on the philosophy of Descartes. The idea is the same, but the standard of infinite purpose is much different.

Now you have three reasons to believe. Consciousness is tied to an image that you have nothing to do with generating. What I am trying to demonstrate is that belief must come from knowing your place in the entire scope and sequence of the events you witness. The very fact you witness them speaks volumes to how you should view your position in the grand scheme of creation.

Let's add a fourth reason. The Trinity is claimed by Christian belief by this reasoning: God is one person represented in the image by three persons. Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

How does this relate to consciousness and animated substance in an image? God is Light. Light is the prima materia (Energy). Light is both particle and wave. All particles have an associated wave. A wave can be likened to a word. God is said to have spoken reality into existence with His WORD. In Greek, Word is LOGOS.

Now, define the Trinity.

God is Energy (Light / Prima Materia / Particle)

Son is Word (Wave / Logos / Laws / Physics / Programming of Nature)

Holy Spirit (Consciousness / Thought / Awareness / I AM)

You are a body (both particle and wave) and consciousness. God is one person on the other side of this trinity of creation. You are both one person on opposite sides of the mirror within your own image.

Genesis 1:1-3

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

There is so much more I can say, but I am tired. Do you really need more? If so, let me know and I will oblige.

Good luck with your search for truth.

One more thing. Take a good hard look at your body. You are a nano-engineered bio-mechanical unit of existence. The body is the vehicle your spirit rides in. Your soul connects your body to its light body. At the quantum level, you are energy in motion with consciousness. Consider this as a basis for belief in what you are not yet, but may yet become. Infinity is infinite after all.

The oak tree is enfolded into the acorn. If it gains union with the soil around it, it unfolds by design to become the mighty oak. At our essence, we are the information of our designer. We express this body by this essence to form. The essence can be saved or lost. As you look out across the ocean of reality, realize that you are only seeing the surface and the waves. You must dive deep to see what is hidden in the depths.

Jesus is the Word. Put your image in His and you will transcend the material image for the spirit realm. That's about all I have to say about that.

Originally posted by Blue Goblin
The first few answers are rubbish 'oh you have to find him' kind of crap.

Says the man who never searched and found.