Protection - Gun Alternatives?

reply to post by LargeFries


Thank you!
I intended to include "glove and ball" with the bat scenario...but got distracted.

My house is filled with "easy to explain" weapons. Knives, axes, tomahawks...I use firewood at home.

Not all SHTF scenarios mean that one won't eventually have to explain their actions in court.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Sadly, over the years I have come to agree that usually one is wise to NEVER involve LEO in their personal affairs.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


Thanks for all the tips. We have a home security system now but all the SHTF scenarios undulating around in my head involve a power outage and collapse of infrastructure. I hope that I'm wrong about all that though. Maybe ADT will be able to pay off after all.

Also, I am the wife. That's why I decided to change my avatar to a pic of myself. People kept thinking I was a wimpy guy. Really, I'm just a semi-wimpy girl. But I'm willing to go knuckles-deep in the eye socket of any one that #s with my family.

Also, thanks for the Bunny Puppy sandwich. A great way to end my night.

reply to post by thinkingthing


No worries, my apologies... after I posted , I saw the avatar and changed a few things in the post. If you're willing to go "Knuckle Deep" then you're good to go!



Be Safe.

BTW, Pick up a Genny while they're still cheap, our infrastucture is ancient and locally we're having water mains go on the regular (Usually only happens during winter) and the surrounding areas are having power issues. You can get decent generator deals on Ebay or Craigslist. A Genny is an abosolute MUST!

Hi, OP.

Sometimes I think that Marc MacYoung is the only person who makes sense when it comes to making decisions like the ones you are trying to make.

I hope you find this link as useful as I have. Look to the left for more of his articles.

www.nononsenseselfdefense.com...

reply to post by Frater210


Macs a good dude, his wife is pretty hardcore too! Good Info there.

reply to post by thinkingthing


Your best weapon is your mind period.

Let no one tell you otherwise, take in as much general survival and first aid information as you can, in any SHTF scenario or collapse it is those that retain valuable skills that will end up on top.

Download or check out survival books from the library, read up on harvesting and farming methods, I have a cache of downloaded books on survival and first aid I've stored onto flash drives and other media and various methods of reading them in a metal suit case, that gets put in a lead box in the basement.

Guns are a great tool, but as with all tools you need to know how to properly implement them, start watching safety and information vids on Youtube.

as for what to get in specifics, Id say a good 22rifle (for hunting small game), a shotgun (perfect for home defense) and a handgun last for personal defense something in a good revolver 357magnum should be decent, most important invest in ammo, a good supply will be valuable in trade as well.

Originally posted by thinkingthing
We have been putting off getting a gun for a while. Debating the issue. Neither of us have really ever handled a gun before. We know nothing about the subject and are quite intimidated by it. We do plan on getting one real soon, but have been so busy with moving, starting new jobs, registering kids in school, etc. I am afraid the SHTF scenario may go down before we get around to buying one and learning how to use it.

What are other effective ways of protecting ourselves and our belongings? Assuming a shelter in place situation. I plan on getting pepper spray and a good survival knife. What are some other things I should consider?

Also, what if I'm caught totally off guard? What are the best makeshift weapons and methods of protection, using common household items?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

BB gun can be a reasonable alternative because it really stings and hurts bad.

I haven't read the entire thread, so be nice.

Guns are much easier to master than booby traps, taser-play, or barrier construction.

However, having guns at your disposal in combination with booby traps, tasers, barriers, moats isn't a bad way to defend one's homestead either...

Get a rifle, shotgun, and sidearm for each adult responsible for defending your household.... or be prepared to surrender your household to those that do possess those things.

A firearms safe costs nothing compared to a bathroom renovation; so get one.

Firearms training is very cheap compared to the cost of seeing the ones you love get victimized by hooligans.

If you never have to use firearms, then at least your expenditure paid for peace of mind.

reply to post by JennaDarling


Sounds too me like the OP is more talking about some kind of home invasion situation, therefore both your points are irrelevant, i'd like to see you 'walk away' when some thug with a gun.knife is lurking the corridor outside your bedroom in the middle of the night !

reply to post by thinkingthing


I have mentioned before on ATS that a good dual use item to stop home invasions is the humble fire extinguisher.
Go for the sort used to put out electrical fires-they have fine powder in them which shoot out at a good rate.

With extinguisher in one hand and a good kosh in the other,you can stop an attacker fast.

Its hard to fight back with eyes full of powder,and its natural to close your eyes when the stuff hits.
Spray and whack,repeat as needed.

Great dual purpose item to keep in the home/car.

Having had to think about this one for myself a few times, I asked my wife what she would do if she heard an intruder in the house if I was away (we don't own guns).

She was a little lost but I urged her to look around the room for potential weapons. Apart from hurling shoes at the intruder/s she could find precious little that she could call an effective weapon.

We're both smokers so there are always lighters or matches lying around. Now, deodorant, nail varnish remover and the like are highly flammable ... spray it in the intruders' eyes and or all over them and toss a match at them.

Of course, this won't work in or for every situation but neither will a gun. It is merely, like someone else said in another post, the "oh crap" effect you want to invoke ... and I'm pretty sure being set on fire must rank up there on the "oh crap" meter

reply to post by JennaDarling


And if two teen punks show up in your back yard while you are sunbathing, then what? It's you and them; they are staring at you, you tell them to get the hell off your property, and they laugh.

Wasp spray is a diluted chemical nerve agent, most likely will cause instant loss of sight/blindness, likely permanent after a short time (if not instantly) if not washed out immediately.

It will have pretty much the same effect on people, respiratory distress, central nervous system effects.. To sum it up pain, screaming and fear. Probably a last line of defence, slug them with a baseball bat first, you don't need to be charged with GBH (Grevious bodily harm) or worse, manslaughter, over it.

However in a survivalist situation, go for it. Ill be buying some tomorrow. If you want to get really creative, fit a strobe light to the can as well. It'll stop them dead in their tracks.

reply to post by anumohi


All pissing contest aside this does bring up a relevant point; It is good not not have routines predators use them against you if a mugger knows you leave you house by the front door at 07:30 every morning he can stand behind the door looking at his watch with a raised bat in the other hand and swing at 07:30 and hit you without even looking. so leave by the front door at 07:15 one day, the back door at 07:25 the next etc. if you are being cased by a random assailant he would typically move on to easier prey.
Along the same lines just doing anything to make yourself a less desirable target is good. loud dog, good fence nasty plants like choilla cactus under your windows & along you fence line are discouraging just to look at.

reply to post by thinkingthing


Slightly off topic, but you guys seem to know your guns / weapons, and discuss them in the same comfortable way that I might consider what sort of mobile phone to buy.
I guess they are just everyday tools to you, and have probably always been part of your lives, whilst I'd probably be uncomfortable if suddenly we ( U.K.) were allowed to buy guns for personal protection or " The right to bear arms " I think you call it.
I'd be nervous about having one around the house at first. Sounds like some of you folk have large arsenals !
Fortunately, very few burglars / thieves / assorted rif raf, have guns here, so we're comparatively safe. (?)

Presumably, if you shoot someone whilst defending yourself / family, you have to make sure you shoot them dead in the front of their body, not the back ( As they are running away..) and make sure their fingerprints are on some other lethal weapon if they don't have a gun ?

Here in the U.K. we're only allowed to use " Reasonable force " which is ultimately decided upon, according to the circumstances, in a court of law. Reasonable force is difficult to gauge, for a homeowner faced with violence, in the heat of the moment, with only seconds to make the right decision...

Making the wrong decision in the U.K. could mean Billy Burglar gets off scot free, ( And with some compensation, assuming you have'nt killed him. ) whilst you, the poor homeowner, guilty of making the wrong decision in the heat of the moment, could end up in jail !

reply to post by thinkingthing


I think getting to know your neighbors with an openmind is the best option.
Love is the greatest weapon.
Safety in numbers.
A good ole confidence game will keep your family alive longer than a gun.

I have 3 dogs, they have already fought off a robbery while I was out, one taking a screwdriver to the leg, the dogs still kept them out (They got lotsa treats for that one!)

I just want to emphasize that use of wasp spray on a person will most likely do damage, a police officer on this site here said the following:

I'm a cop, not a lawyer and nothing I say should be taken as legal advice. Few years ago I answered a burglary call where a homeless guy had broken into a house. Unfortunately for him, the female homeowner was home and was quite justifiably terrified when a man she didn't know started smashing out a window and coming inside. She grabbed the first thing handy and blasted him in the face with it. The fellow ended up catching about a quarter can of Raid Wasp Killer directly to the face. I pulled up on the scene about 10 minutes after the spraying and went with the prisoner to the hospital so he could be treated prior to going to jail. Observed effects were fairly severe pain to the eyes, fairly noticable drainage of mucus from the nose, and complaints of blurred vision. By the time he was checked into the hospital the whites of his eyes were severely discolored and he was in considerable pain. I was not called to testify at his trial, so can't speak on that, but my partner dealt with him once a couple of years later at a grocery store where he had claimed the dumpster as his personal residence. She stated that the fellow was now completely blind in one eye and had extremely limited vision in the other. The homeowner got no heat from us. She was at home, in fear, and defended herself with what she had in hand. In her situation, deadly force was an acceptable response. HOWEVER, it is clearly labeled on the can that any use other than intended is a Federal crime. Further, the initial effects I observed were less severe than even moderately effective deployments of OC. I would be VERY leary of deploying a toxic chemical inside my home against anyone unless I was literally in fear of imminent death and nothing else was at hand. Imagine the civil suit when you have to explain to a jury that yes, you sprayed a neurotoxic chemical agent into the eyes of a poor, misunderstood youth causing permanant eye damage. Plus, you now have plenty of toxic stuff floating around that you get to breath and all over your residence. Really, even in the low concentrations found in bug spray, those are some NASTY chemicals. Again, if I happened to have a can of Wasp spray in my hand when the guy came in the window, I would probably let him have it. I wouldn't dream of intentionally carrying it around or even grabbing a can when I hear the noise at the window. There are plenty of actual weapons laying around my house, and plenty of much more effective improvised weapons than bug spray should the need arise. A skillet to the skull is an excellent fight stopper. Extensive potential for lasting injury without the same potential for rapid incapacitation of the target is a bad combination. On the other hand, I did once catch a face full of brake cleaner (I'm clumsy) and it hurt like you wouldn't believe. I've also been Foxed and it is no comparison. If there is anything out there that hurts more than Fox 5.3 I really don't want to experience it.

I am not a large girl by any means, when I go out at night I carry a very potent little torch and wear boots, anyone tries to mug me, I shine it in their eyes and kick them where it hurts, with steelcaps. (In theory of course, I tend to also walk with one of my dogs, noone has ever tried to mug me). A high intensity torch can buy you seconds, and if you happen to have a heavy object nearby, enough time to hit them with it.

Please, just remember, if they have any kind of respiratory condition, you may well kill them if you spray them with wasp spray, that said.. better to be alive and be charged than die at the hands of some gutter trash thief.

Originally posted by thinkingthing
So, we were all set to go buy our gun this evening. But then we remembered it was meet the teacher night. Thwarted once again. To everyone that says "nothing beats having a gun" and the like - yes I agree. But as concerned as I am with potential apocalyptic scenarios, I have to be more concerned with my immediate responsibilities.

Guns are on the priority list, but I have to consider the possibility that I might miss my chance, if say the electrical grid failed tonight, for instance. I am not anticipating nightmarish marauders right off the bat. I live in a gated community in the hills, pretty far away from the city. But my upstanding neighbors might get desperate when they run out of food and water. If I find myself without guns, I would like to know how else I can protect my goods. Not just the obvious. I want to know some MacGyver kind of #.

Guns.and training and ammunition( end of thread)....there is no magic

("Mcgyver" was a t.v. show;not a self-defense philosophy)
Sorry if some of you are gonna' just have to: "run what you brung" If tshtf unexpectedly( is there any other way?)
All that time spent lobbying for anti-handgun legislation
and not out in the country shooting soda-"pop" cans with a.22 for fun
has just come home to roost.
"Mcgyver kind of sh*t" is a way of creatively thinking (improvising a tool to do a job) not a step by step "how to" book.

Originally posted by thinkingthing
Yes, I have plans to meet up with family in a remote location. But I have to consider that I may be forced to shelter in place at home. To say that I should focus on Plan A and resign myself to failure (which in this case could mean death) in the event of confrontation and not even bother trying to learn how to protect myself in a variety of ways is - not my kind of approach.

Plain and none lethal (sometimes) Batton Round Firing Gun
Stun Batons