Protection - Gun Alternatives?

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by anumohi

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by thinkingthing
reply to post by anumohi

 

Awesome. This was the kind of stuff I was hoping for. I think it's a good idea to think of these things regardless. There are plenty of scenarios where people may find themselves without guns. They could be confiscated, stolen, or one could simply run out of ammo. I had a good list of ideas but didn't consider converting the fire extinguisher. That's a good one!

I will never run out of ammo

what if your assailants are hiding in the bush waiting for the opportunity to strike, or just flat out shot you when you walk out the door???whats all that ammo and guns going to do for you???

we all believe we will know what we will do in the event, but every scenarios different and truth be known no one really has that answer, as someone else suggested you need to have a security system in place that can monitor your perimeter and good heavy well made doors and windows that cannot be easily rammed down or pried open. here is a thread i wrote for just this type of sitchiasion

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh, gee, I dunno. I'll start with don't walk out the door like an idiot? All that ammo is going to ensure that if you enter my home you'll be leaving feet first if you're lucky, but likely in pieces (12-gauge 00 buck makes a helluva mess).

I have a security system. I have ADT and 2 german shepherds. If you decide to break into my home you are the dumbest criminal that ever lived and your next stop will be the county coroner.

EDIT: And if you knock on my door after 8 PM I am armed and so is my wife. If you knock on my door after 11PM I'll be exiting the basement, coming around the back, and tactically engaging my front door with a shotgun aimed at your face.

edit on 16-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)

OH OK
Smart thugs will come knocking on your door wearing a badge in broad daylight and at the moment you answer the door you'll be had, i'm sure you aint got the balls to answer your door pointing a gun at a cop, even a pretend one. dont act like ur some sorta bad ass you'll do what most of us will do which is not answer the door and pretend we aint home ......

Bottom of the page. Flashlights.

en.wikipedia.org...

While you are scheduling firearm safety classes and learning how to use your new gun...........treat yourself to a few new D cell maglights

Originally posted by anumohi

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by anumohi

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by thinkingthing
reply to post by anumohi

 

Awesome. This was the kind of stuff I was hoping for. I think it's a good idea to think of these things regardless. There are plenty of scenarios where people may find themselves without guns. They could be confiscated, stolen, or one could simply run out of ammo. I had a good list of ideas but didn't consider converting the fire extinguisher. That's a good one!

I will never run out of ammo

what if your assailants are hiding in the bush waiting for the opportunity to strike, or just flat out shot you when you walk out the door???whats all that ammo and guns going to do for you???

we all believe we will know what we will do in the event, but every scenarios different and truth be known no one really has that answer, as someone else suggested you need to have a security system in place that can monitor your perimeter and good heavy well made doors and windows that cannot be easily rammed down or pried open. here is a thread i wrote for just this type of sitchiasion

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh, gee, I dunno. I'll start with don't walk out the door like an idiot? All that ammo is going to ensure that if you enter my home you'll be leaving feet first if you're lucky, but likely in pieces (12-gauge 00 buck makes a helluva mess).

I have a security system. I have ADT and 2 german shepherds. If you decide to break into my home you are the dumbest criminal that ever lived and your next stop will be the county coroner.

EDIT: And if you knock on my door after 8 PM I am armed and so is my wife. If you knock on my door after 11PM I'll be exiting the basement, coming around the back, and tactically engaging my front door with a shotgun aimed at your face.

edit on 16-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)

OH OK

Smart thugs will come knocking on your door wearing a badge in broad daylight and at the moment you answer the door you'll be had, i'm sure you aint got the balls to answer your door pointing a gun at a cop, even a pretend one. dont act like ur some sorta bad ass you'll do what most of us will do which is not answer the door and pretend we aint home

......

Are you just looking to pick a fight, or what? Your argument is bullsht. I am a badass, mfer. come knock on my door and find out. I know all the sheriff's deputies and state troopers that police my side of the woods, so yeah... I would know if some pretend cop came knocking.

idiot.

reply to post by tangonine


Man knock off the internet tough guy BS. It makes you sound like a little wimp.

Nothing will help you more then a good martial arts class. You should take BJJ classes, many people know BJJ. If you fight some one that knows BJJ then you wont be able to defend your self. Even if you only learn a little bit.

Seriously, if you are able to- buy an shotgun and go to a gun course, pretty sure there will be people there happy to show you how to use it.

Nothing beats an gun or rifle... nothing.

Also, become versed in secondary self defense, say someone has grabbed hold of your shotgun or gun... What do you do then? You need to be experienced with that feeling of helplessness so it doesn't shock you the first time if that happens...

If you can't use something with a lot of kick, like a shotgun, try get an automatic .22 gun with an extended magazine

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by anumohi

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by anumohi

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by thinkingthing
reply to post by anumohi

 

Awesome. This was the kind of stuff I was hoping for. I think it's a good idea to think of these things regardless. There are plenty of scenarios where people may find themselves without guns. They could be confiscated, stolen, or one could simply run out of ammo. I had a good list of ideas but didn't consider converting the fire extinguisher. That's a good one!

I will never run out of ammo

what if your assailants are hiding in the bush waiting for the opportunity to strike, or just flat out shot you when you walk out the door???whats all that ammo and guns going to do for you???

we all believe we will know what we will do in the event, but every scenarios different and truth be known no one really has that answer, as someone else suggested you need to have a security system in place that can monitor your perimeter and good heavy well made doors and windows that cannot be easily rammed down or pried open. here is a thread i wrote for just this type of sitchiasion

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh, gee, I dunno. I'll start with don't walk out the door like an idiot? All that ammo is going to ensure that if you enter my home you'll be leaving feet first if you're lucky, but likely in pieces (12-gauge 00 buck makes a helluva mess).

I have a security system. I have ADT and 2 german shepherds. If you decide to break into my home you are the dumbest criminal that ever lived and your next stop will be the county coroner.

EDIT: And if you knock on my door after 8 PM I am armed and so is my wife. If you knock on my door after 11PM I'll be exiting the basement, coming around the back, and tactically engaging my front door with a shotgun aimed at your face.

edit on 16-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)

OH OK

Smart thugs will come knocking on your door wearing a badge in broad daylight and at the moment you answer the door you'll be had, i'm sure you aint got the balls to answer your door pointing a gun at a cop, even a pretend one. dont act like ur some sorta bad ass you'll do what most of us will do which is not answer the door and pretend we aint home

......

Are you just looking to pick a fight, or what? Your argument is bullsht. I am a badass, mfer. come knock on my door and find out. I know all the sheriff's deputies and state troopers that police my side of the woods, so yeah... I would know if some pretend cop came knocking.

idiot.

edit on 16-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)

MMM HMMM

Personally i use 24" zip-ties, the last thing you'll ever hear is ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT

Even though i have a 1911 i still have a can of bear spray and a gas mask in my home.

Never fight fair in your own home. bear spray the room between your door and your barricade position, dawn your mask and watch your intruder get surprised when he can not breath or see very good.

If they are armed with a gun shoot them if armed with a knife blow there hand apart or lesser weapon beat them to the point they will never think of trying it again.

Raid
ant and wasp killer
sticks and stones
sling shot

reply to post by collateraldamage


I actually started Brazilian Jiu Jitsu two weeks ago. I'm only going once a week right now but plan on more as soon as the kids get back to school. I really need to get to get my daily cardio in.

I've got three fire extinguishers. Never thought of them as potential weapons. Thanks for the tips!

reply to post by thinkingthing

I would review the laws in your area. Laws in the US are often more restrictive towards "makeshift" weapons than firearms.

I'm a fan of simpler is better. "Survival" knife sounds fine, but if you aren't trained to use one then don't bother with it for defense. A baseball bat (sans spikes as suggested) is easy to explain away, and even without room for a home run swing it can be effective when used as a short spear. Possibly a crowbar, hammer, or spanner as suggested, depending on what you can explain away as something you "grabbed in a panic" rather than something you "planned".

Nothing beats a gun though. I wouldn't buy anything I haven't shot on a range and I wouldn't bother unless you intend to train. For home defense I like small caliber revolvers. You want something that won't jam, misfire and is easy to maintain. The calibers mentioned in this thread are all fine. You want a caliber that you can fire without flinching. A .22 lr revolver is fine if you are able and willing to hit your target.

I'd save the shotty and the semi auto rifles for outdoors, unless your house is a lot roomier than mine.

Of course in a true SHTF scenario, we'd want one of everything...and then still wished we had more.

reply to post by thinkingthing


1. you will find past threads in Survival forum by using Search that have some great suggestions.

2. you mentioned elaborate traps. too complicated, too expensive or difficult, too prone to making a real mess when children or innocent animals accidentally become victimized.

3. slingshots, well made ones, are an incredible self-defense value, but you have to put in practice time to master. i've read some incredible tales about those who mastered them; deadly even at a distance, highly accurate.

4. a tall, strong, well-chosen wooden walking staff can become a fine weapon. again, you must spend time becoming familiar with using it to make it worth your while.

5. well made crossbows are a silent and deadly weapon. economical (but don't buy cheap crap); many areas do not require a license. like the sling shot and the walking staff you have to master using it or it's useless.

6. WD-40 and a bic lighter is a cheap, portable and incredibly effective improvised flamethrower. also handy for household lubricating needs and lighting a cigarette, each on their own.

7. if you can't afford the expense and don't have the time needed to tend to and play with a dog, there are pre-recorded devices that are economical and effective in making visitors believe you have large unfriendly dogs inside your home.

8. as with most topics in life, the most return for your money is a well-written book. do some research to identify two or three recommended titles. save by purchasing them used on ebay, half.com, amazon or abesbooks.

many people spend much time and energy worrying about things that never come to pass. that's silly. don't worry. do some research, make your choices, pick your plan of action then follow through. but don't worry. worry is negative and unproductive.

reply to post by thinkingthing


Well OP in all honesty I cant say there really is a good alternative for a good ol hunk of iron loaded with lead, however in answer to your question just about anything can be used as a makeshift weapon. heavier items make for a good knock to the head, heck you can even use an appliance cord to choke someone down with. stab them in the eye with a pencil if you have to. I wuld also suggest studying pressure points, or points that are voulnurable maybe join a self defence class or somethin like that to familirize yourself with the vital areas. however I recommend getting the gun and practicing with it there is nothing better than that.

reply to post by FrenchOsage


FrenchOsage i think you made an excellent point. Whether it is by a doorway, in the closet or the trunk of your car, items like baseball bats and golf clubs are self-explanatory. Complete the illusion with a mitt, balls, spike sport shoes in the area and you're golden.

So, we were all set to go buy our gun this evening. But then we remembered it was meet the teacher night. Thwarted once again. To everyone that says "nothing beats having a gun" and the like - yes I agree. But as concerned as I am with potential apocalyptic scenarios, I have to be more concerned with my immediate responsibilities.

Guns are on the priority list, but I have to consider the possibility that I might miss my chance, if say the electrical grid failed tonight, for instance. I am not anticipating nightmarish marauders right off the bat. I live in a gated community in the hills, pretty far away from the city. But my upstanding neighbors might get desperate when they run out of food and water. If I find myself without guns, I would like to know how else I can protect my goods. Not just the obvious. I want to know some MacGyver kind of #.

Yes, I have plans to meet up with family in a remote location. But I have to consider that I may be forced to shelter in place at home. To say that I should focus on Plan A and resign myself to failure (which in this case could mean death) in the event of confrontation and not even bother trying to learn how to protect myself in a variety of ways is - not my kind of approach.

claw hammer or roofing hatchet, and don't forget the good ole spade garden shovel

For the MR. STEED in all of us, here's the next best covert

WATCH THE LIL VIDEO YOU'LL BE AMAZED

real-self-defense.com...

reply to post by tangonine


tangonine i like what you wrote about not feeding the pooch cheap crap food. you are so right. i felt horrible when many pet owners across america had their friends die because of contaminated food from other countries.

i thought we were feeding our chow-chow well until we met a rep at a dog-themed oktoberfest day event a few years back. a company rep with fromm family food turned us on to their dog food. baby my chow loved it. we could see the difference in her over time with her new food. it's expensive and our little girl is worth every penny!

she's a good girl and i'll spoil her with roast beef from the deli or her own steak every once in a while. that dog has brought more joy into our home than anything else has.

if you want your canine friend to sample fromm family you could probably get some coupons at their website. it's not sold everywhere but i think it's worth the ride to keep our baby healthy.

Originally posted by collateraldamageRemember: if you employ a bat, knife, or gun against another person you are using "Lethal force". Expect to be treated accordingly by the authorities regardless of who is at fault. That's not to say that there are not times when it is necessary and justified, but the object of the exercise is to avoid that awful day when killing another human being is truly "the right thing" to do.

I have a side note on that topic. If you want to avoid any legal problems if and/or when you kill someone who is trying to kill you on your own property, I have an idea, but of course, this will only apply to rural settings where witnesses are absent. Remember that an intruder is NOT expected to be at your place, and if his life trail ends at your home, no one will be the wiser unless you make that call. Don't make the call. Have a place in mind to stash a dead body, and use it. Back in Missouri, I kept two such places in mind. I am NOT saying that I ever used them.

Also, don't overlook a handy wine bottle, as in Monty Python's "Chauteau du Wogga Wogga, suitable only for hand-to-hand combat." Some people call it a "broken bottle job."

I commend you on taking the step to be prepared and responsible for the safety of your family , far too many people believe 911 is their savior... this is taking nothing away from LEO's , I was in that profession myself... but many things can happen to you and your family during the time it takes an officer to arrive on scene, and none of them are good.

The 1st thing that you need to understand is MINDSET , when I recieved my MCMAP instructors class , we were given a T shirt that read "One Mind , Any Weapon" while I already understood the concept from learning about "weapons of opportunity" in my combat training , it sort of reaffirmed everything.

You need to understand that YOU Ma'am are the weapon, whatever you may have in your hand at the time is the tool. Since I'm a trigger puller of course I'm going to be an advocate of firearms for self defense , man with gun beats man without gun 99 out of 100 times. I'd reccomend taking an NRA "First Steps" pistol or shotgun class , they'll teach you safe handling of firearms in a setting that caters to new shooters. My bump in the night gun is a 9 shot Mossberg 590A1 Pump with a TLR-2 Light/Laser, everyone has different needs though , there is no 1 size fits all firearm.

Now that firearms are out of the way, I'd say your #1 security measure will be your lighting , doors and windows. Criminals are animals of opportunity , and if your home is the most well lit (lights facing AWAY from the home) and you have no bushes or shrubs in front of your 1st floor windows , they'll usually seek a house that's less of a risk to enter. Make sure you have solid core doors on all of your entry/exit points and reinforced frames , also have deadbolts on your doors and have a decent lock on there (AND USE THEM) I don't care how "Nice" your neighborhood is, criminals know that the "Nice" neigborhoods have all of the "Good" stuff in them, your doorways are your first (and in some cases) your last line of defense. Make sure you keep your windows locked as well. If you have any sliding glass goors you can buy a "Charley Bar" or depending on how handy you are, you can go to Home Depot and make one out of a 2x4.

I'd also reccomend getting a monitored alarm from a reputable alarm company, make sure there is an exterior audible alarm with a strobe to aid in drawing attention and signaling police and neighbors. If you can't afford an alarm , pick up some ADT or Brinks stickers from EBAY and put em on your doors and windows or one of those small signs that go on your lawn.

There really is no replacement for having a canine companion , not so much for their skill in attacking an intruder, but for the senses that they have, their noses and ears are far more keen than our own and they're instinctive they'll alert you to a disturbance well before you would pick it up on your own, if you even noticed at all.

Now to your PLAN! If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail. Say the wolf is at your door RIGHT NOW, and kicks it in?... what do YOU do? , Where do the cubs go?... What is your partners role? You wanna know what's going to happen, you are going to freeze, and I'll leave the rest up to your imagination. You need to have a plan and that plan needs to be rehearsed until its instinctual , everyone's plans are going to be different... heres my example. If a home invasion were to occur , my wife and kids are to haul ass to our bedroom which has a solid core door and a deadbolt , they don't come out of this room PERIOD , there's 72 hours worth of provisions in my BOB by the safe , so they're G2G for a while. She gets 911 on the horn and grabs her gun and positions herself and the kids on the far side of the room using the dresser as cover and no one else makes it in the room , unless it's me giving her a safeword , or it's verified by the dispatcher that its the good guys, she'll let dispatch know that I'm armed and my location and description. My Job is to position myself at the end of the fatal funnel off to the side of the staircase and ensure no one makes it up and to the bedroom. I'll yell down that I have a gun and the police are on their way, You won't be seeing any room clearing or badguy hunting on my part, the only VALUABLES I have are My wife and kids, everything else can be replaced. I've got other contingencies for other scenarios but they're all similar.




Now to the part you've probably been waiting for, GUN ALTERATIVES!!! no to be anticlimatic but I have no definitive answer for you, Baseball Bats, Machetes, Iron Skillets all work well but at the end of the day to survive combat you need to pit your strongest weapon against your enemy's weakest point and repeat until he's no longer breathing or he's no longer a threat (whichever comes first) then you do the same to his buddies. If I've got nothing at hand then my thumbs will be well past the 2nd knuckle into his eye sockets , sorry to be so graphic but If that mental image makes you squimish then you need to reevaluate your mindset, this is your families life you're saving, there shouldn't be any "Limit" to the level of violence you're able to escalate to, I promise you that the guy you may be doing that to had similar things lined up for you if he had the chance, you just happened to get there first.







Now as a palate cleanser of all the violence, hate and malcontent I've shared with you I give you THIS!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/15a1bcc6094b.jpg[/atsimg]

C'mon, what's cuter than a Bunny Puppy sandwich?