Did Humans and Dinosaurs Coexist? Yes!

Originally posted by Stephen3267
when God told them not to eat from the tree of knowledge and said they would surely die...he was talking of a spiritual death..their physical body would have died anyway without the tree of life to keep them alive..

Please validate through the Genesis scriptures where it specificallys says they died a spiritual death?

If you can't, then it's obvious it's Christians forcing something into the scriptures that wasnt there before. Since Adam and Eve didn't die, it's safe to say God lied and the serpent was telling the truth. Man, that sucks.

reply to post by nyk537


i have enjoyed how your mind work on the coexistence! n in my memories i know 4 a fact cause i was ther ,that we DID LIVE SIDE BY SIDE WE WOULD NOT BE were we r 2day without. How Do You Understand Genesis (Creation of Adam & Eve)?

reply to post by Hydroman


being Spiritually dead is a concept that is all over in the Bible, mostly in the new testament. People who don't know Christ, don't understand or cannot receive the message because they are spiritually dead. Let me re-go over some of that stuff and maybe I can say it more concisely. This is weighty theology for sure. I would agree that the fall of man did make Adam spiritually 'dead' and all men after that as well. However, Adam also had first hand knowledge of God, so while he died in his sins, he would have quickly realized there was an problem, and also (presumably) see the need for repentance. (after the whole "lets just hide from God" stuff) But, continue later on in the Bible and you see more and more references to people being spiritually dead. The pharoh's heart is hardened by God in Exodus, and so on. In the New Testament Chist and the apostles talk more about it. The idea that a man, spiritually dead (which is everyone at birth) cannot of his own understanding 'come alive' in Christ. Rather, the message doesn't make sense to that person, the message cannot be accepted by them. Now, it's 100% human nature, and sometimes even just plain normal common sense to say that this story makes little sense. It is only with the intervention of the Holy Spirit that people can become alive- or as you've probably heard the term a zillion times become "born again." So, this falls along the lines of quite a few verses that agree it is not by works men are saved, but by faith. And God chooses people, because if people were not first influenced by the Holy Spirit they couldn't accept Christ. People come to God humbly being saved from what they cannot overcome themselves, understand themselves, etc. This is why Christ also constantly preached against the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and Sadducees, they were proud and self serving. They had no true faith in God, and were in fact, spiritually dead despite being movement with in the church.

Now, as for were they immortal before the fall? I mean, I don't claim to know the answer to that one. I always presumed yes. Or that, perhaps the Tree of Live kept them alive by continually eating from it. I don't know. It's interesting though for sure.

You're right about the dead being raised up- their bodies, but I don't believe their spirits are waiting at the bottom of the ocean. I believe that when separated from the body by death the spirit moves on immediately. -an idea widely supported by other verses. Most notably, of course, by when the thief repents to Christ while they are both being crucified and Jesus tells him, "I tell you the truth today you will be with me in paradise." (This verse also has serious implications for those who believe purgatory because, being a thief, he would presumably have lots of sins to work off- however Christ promises him he will go to heaven upon death. (Or, I guess, if you want to split hairs he promises he'll be there inside a days time) Anyway, when the body is raised back up for judgement the spirit would be brought with it and they would be reunited in my understanding. I wish I was better with Hebrew- but I know there is actually a different Hebrew word for the new bodies believers or promised upon reaching heaven. It's the same word used to describe the bodies angels start with when they're in heaven. But, in this transformation, we leave our bodies here and they rot, but the soul is still alive and receives a new body. The Bible calls our bodies difference analogical words- vessels, etc... But, it's very clear that they are not permanent, but the spirit is.

So what is the spirit? When God creates man in his image is that what he means? A spiritual being? Or does that refer to our traits? The desire to love? The desire to create? All of the above? ...in a literal sense, the best way I could describe it is that your spirit is who you are. Like water. And your current body is a glass. And you are confided by the shape of the glass, but exist more dynamically and inside the glass. And if the glass breaks, you come out. Also, and this is my own personal speculation... I think that a lot of the confining characteristics of our "glass" deal with dimensions. Which may be how God and angels and demons can all be here without are knowledge. We're a drawing on a piece of paper trying to analyse a three dimensional image in other words...

Anyway, I'll revise my answer for the original question... the fall of man meant a spiritual and physical death in my opinion. ...not sure if any of that was helpful...

D

Originally posted by KnowScienceNoGod
reply to post by nyk537

 

Hmmmm... You've looked into this really hard and you seem to have some good points, but your information is very biased. Yes most of this things you point out could be true that doesn't necessarily mean they are. They are still very rough theories. For one, yes dinosaurs lived among humans. They still do in fact. It's called the shark, turtle, and most insects. But the scale that you are considering is hard to believe. Just because it is said that the discovery of dinosaurs wasn't until whatever year doesn't mean there was no knowledge of them, just no know or written knowledge, explaining why there could be dinosaurs on the casket. As far as the beaver tunnels go... Thats the same thing as a modern day beaver so why does it have to be prehistoric? Native Americans know what a beaver does therefore they don't have to unearth the fossils because it was made by not a modern day beaver but neither a prehistoric one. That's why evolution makes sense. Things were constantly changing and evolving so that's why some things add up and some don't. I think you make good points but like you stated your a creationist so you want to find the "facts" that support your claim. Unfortunately they aren't strong enough to sway me from my beliefs and religion thats rest solely on science. Great work though! It's wonderful to see people thinking out side the box, that's what our world relies on to get ahead!

Wait, so you are saying that dinosaurs evolved/devolved into insects? In the 6th sentence.

That's it, it's only 50 minutes into Monday and I've already had enough of ATS.

And the sad thing, if I'm grasping the main point of your post, I agree with you that OP is wrong, just not some of the lunacy you state as fact

Originally posted by Fisherr
The idea of man and dinosaurs living together sounds crazy only if you've been brainwashed into thinking the earth is billions of years old. If the world is as young as the bible says it is (about six thousand years old), then man living with dinosaurs makes perfect sense.

I remember this site.. www.genesispark.com...

Even though the evidence in the OP states that some of the finds in dispute are "30,000" years old....

That is 5 times older than your biblical claim

Originally posted by lovenotwar
when Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden they died spiritualy from God this means that they had lost thier connection from GOD thats what spiritualy dead means

I've got no proof but I've always believed that the story of being thrown out of the garden of eden is an analogy which predates the bible and refers to us going from the hard yet relatively leasure life style of hunter gatherer to the harder life style of farming.

Originally posted by lovenotwar
when Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden they died spiritualy from God this means that they had lost thier connection from GOD thats what spiritualy dead means

When god told them they would die as soon as they touched the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, he really meant "they would lose their connection with him"? So, physical death and decay was already in the world? Why didn't he just say, "If you touch that fruit, you will lose your connection with me." ?

You know what's strange, if they did lose their connection with this god, how were they still able to communicate with him?

reply to post by nyk537



that cannot be proved...........hey, like the bible!

Originally posted by maudlin
being Spiritually dead is a concept that is all over in the Bible, mostly in the new testament. People who don't know Christ, don't understand or cannot receive the message because they are spiritually dead.

You made a positive statement without providing one single verse. You did mention that god hardened pharaoh's heart, which is strange imo, but I don't see how that means he was spiritually dead. I guess it's because I'm not saved, lmao. Hey, maybe because you're not Muslim, you can't understand the Koran....

Originally posted by maudlin
But, continue later on in the Bible and you see more and more references to people being spiritually dead.

Still no verses. I'm not saying that there aren't any, but if there are so many, it should be easy to find. I can't remember any off the top of my head.

Originally posted by maudlin
The idea that a man, spiritually dead (which is everyone at birth) cannot of his own understanding 'come alive' in Christ. Rather, the message doesn't make sense to that person, the message cannot be accepted by them.... It is only with the intervention of the Holy Spirit that people can become alive- or as you've probably heard the term a zillion times become "born again."

Damn, so if the holy spirit doesn't intervene for you, you're screwed?

Originally posted by maudlin
Now, as for were they immortal before the fall? I mean, I don't claim to know the answer to that one. I always presumed yes. Or that, perhaps the Tree of Live kept them alive by continually eating from it. I don't know. It's interesting though for sure.

Ok, so you know for sure this god meant "spiritually dead" when he said "You will die when you touch this fruit"? Why did he make it so vague then? If he told you that if you touch that vegetable on your dinner plate, you will die, would you think he's talking about a spiritual death? Is god really that vague about things? Can he not communicate his message clearly? Or is it again because I'm not spiritually alive that I can't understand it? If that's the case, and I can't understand the bible's message because I'm not spiritually alive, how will I ever be able to believe it?

Maybe when god told Abraham to sacrifice his son, he didn't mean physically sacrifice him, but spiritually sacrifice him.....

Originally posted by maudlin
You're right about the dead being raised up- their bodies, but I don't believe their spirits are waiting at the bottom of the ocean. I believe that when separated from the body by death the spirit moves on immediately.. But, in this transformation, we leave our bodies here and they rot, but the soul is still alive and receives a new body. The Bible calls our bodies difference analogical words- vessels, etc... But, it's very clear that they are not permanent, but the spirit is.

If you're spirit moves on immediately to heaven, what is the need for the resurrection of bodies? You're already in heaven, why do you need a body there? People have been living there for millenia now in spirit form without a body, so what's the reason for this?

Originally posted by maudlin
...in a literal sense, the best way I could describe it is that your spirit is who you are. Like water. And your current body is a glass.

That sounds cool and all, but what about those who are spiritually dead? What about their spirit? Who are they if they are spiritually dead? I thought we were who we are because of brain function and life experiences. For example, if I fall and hit my head, it is possible I can forget who I am. I may have been a born again christian, but when I awake, I no longer know who I am, nor do I believe in a god. What happened there? Something in my brain changed. Does that mean that I spiritually died when I damaged my brain?

Originally posted by maudlin
Anyway, I'll revise my answer for the original question... the fall of man meant a spiritual and physical death in my opinion. ...not sure if any of that was helpful...

Ok, so they died spiritually that day, as you say, but they DID NOT die physically that day. It is said that Adam lived for over 900 years after being kicked out of the garden, if I remember correctly. Again, we know that he didn't die physically that same moment he touched the fruit as god said, so you assume he meant "spiritually dead" because he didn't die physically. Is that correct?

Again, when Paul said, "Through Adam's sin, death was brought into the world..." he was talking about spiritual death, not physical death? Again....vague? To put this in a different perspective...You are Adam. God tells you that if you even so much as touch the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, you will die that very day, you are thinking he is talking about spiritual death?

If by dinosaurs OP means birds, then yes. We're coexisting. As for the other lineages, the obvious answer is no. Just a week back I was at beach close to Lisbon. Saw lots of fossilized dinosaur bones inside rocks, but not a single human bone. What gives?

Originally posted by Hydroman
Or is it again because I'm not spiritually alive that I can't understand it? If that's the case, and I can't understand the bible's message because I'm not spiritually alive, how will I ever be able to believe it?

You won't.

I can't imagine you counting that as a loss.

Don't mistake that I'm trying to be persuasive here, I was actually just trying to answer a purely theological question to the best of my ability with my cursory understanding having grown up in the church. And, I'm not intrigued by the dinosaur stuff because of religious view either, it's more because dinosaurs are sweet. Just an interesting subject. Every kid wishes he lived with dinosaurs, the thought that some might have is worth looking into in my book. But, saying that they would die if they touched the fruit obviously didn't mean that they would keel over on the spot, cause they didn't. So, you have to look outside for an answer about what was meant. Obviously, the Bible isn't light reading material. There are people who dedicate their whole lives to understanding it. Some things are more easily understood than others. Maybe replace the phrase "spiritually dead" with "spiritually deaf." Might make more sense in the context I was trying to explain. It's not a point of no return, just a state of spiritually emptiness as I understand it. The lack of Bible verses is out of sheer laziness- but again, I'm not trying to be persuasive, I'm just trying to explain my understanding of these things- and what the church commonly excepts. If you really want to look into it more there are people more qualified than I am to ask tough questions. But, some of this all just seems like questions for the sake of questions trying to lead to the ultimate answer of "I don't know." And, I can make getting me to that point easy for you, because I have issues admitting I don't have good answers for lots of the theological questions. Some I do, some I don't. Why do we resurrect the bodies from the deep for judgement? No clue. But, no one knows the answers for all the questions in their field, whatever it may be- and I'm not a theologian to start with. The help of the Holy Spirit thing, Saying you need the help of the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible, become born again, etc, doesn't mean that its an exclusive club, or that you can't do this but I can because of a magic spook. Everyone has access to help from the Holy Spirit by asking for it. That's how that one goes. But, back to dinosaurs...

Originally posted by maudlin
But, saying that they would die if they touched the fruit obviously didn't mean that they would keel over on the spot, cause they didn't. So, you have to look outside for an answer about what was meant.

There are other options: 1. The god lied. 2. The author who wrote the story was wrong. 3. None of this happened and it is all metaphor.

Originally posted by maudlin
Maybe replace the phrase "spiritually dead" with "spiritually deaf." Might make more sense in the context I was trying to explain.

The god didn't say they would go deaf if they touched the fruit....

Originally posted by maudlin
If you really want to look into it more there are people more qualified than I am to ask tough questions.

I spoke with a bible teacher on this subject. He first said that Adam and Eve were created immortal. When I asked about the purpose of the Tree of Life, he then back-tracked and said that they had the potential to be immortal. Then I said that this means that Adam and Eve would have died eventually even if they had not sinned, if they never ate from the Tree of Life. Therefore sin did not bring death to the world. He had no reply...

Originally posted by maudlin
But, some of this all just seems like questions for the sake of questions trying to lead to the ultimate answer of "I don't know."

"I don't know" is a good answer sometimes.

See, I thought you were just asking a question, I haven't been reading the whole thread... finding things in the Bible to split hairs over is easy. And, if dispelling faith was as easy as proving that there are confusing, or even contradicting things in the Bible there wouldn't be any Christians. ...or Muslims, or Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc... That's obvious. Going over every little thing in the Bible that's weird, inconsistent, or confusing would take forever and just make a really long annoying post, and in the end... everyone would still feel the same way. But, everyone knows that the Bible's a bizarre read. Some people see sense in it some don't, either way it's not like it's a high school math book. Anyone, Christian or otherwise, who try and say, that it's a cut and dry read are kidding themselves. Some people listen to The Pixies and hear great music, some people hear gibberish and noise. If there's a right or wrong to that question, no one is going to be able to figure out which. I like talking philosophy and theology, but I hate debating it. It's pointless and really kind of boring... that's my personal feeling.

reply to post by maudlin

No problem, but it is interesting for me to learn what people believe and WHY they believe it. Thanks for participating.

reply to post by nyk537


humans and dinosaurs did not coexist. At all. Ever.

Dragons (dinosaurs) and humans?

Only way I can imagine this to be true is if the 'dragons' were very very rare and the bones that're left have yet to be found. This is hard to believe. Where did they disappear to?

Makes too little sense unless there's a vast paleontology conspiracy and all of the 'fresh' bones are buried in the basement under heaps of garbage so nobody will find them.

Another possibility is that we somehow have dated them incorrectly. Maybe carbon-dating is wrong? That too is hard to believe because the dating scheme is often related to the soil that the bone was found in. The soil itself, without even employing carbon-based dating, can date back millions of years just from a basic understanding of how the ground moves and shifts over time.

If there were fresh bones we would be able to see blood vessels and grab DNA. From this DNA we could even recreate dinosaurs in the lab. Jurassic park could be made real.

Only a trivial few of the bones we have found had any hint of blood vessels. But the DNA fragments are too few to rebuild the DNA with any accuracy. This is because the bones are ancient. If the bones were truly from the past 100,000 years, this would not be so.

Here is an example of a bone that had a hint of blood vessels:
www.dailymail.co.uk ...

WOW...my fellow people we are really, really lost and screwed!

The problem most people have when they read the bible is they read it from the point of view of just a person. Read it and think of yourself as a God (a piece of God) who is enjoying/experiencing life in a sim.

The reason there isn't an answer to whether man walked with dinosaurs and how old the Earth is because the answer exists but it doesn't. Time exists, but then again it doesn't. There will be more things found that will cause us to question all that we thought we knew.

The entire purpose of religion is to insure we don't fall to in love with this existence. Sin is the love of anything other than another soul. Sex, drinking and smoking aren't the only sins silly bible thumpers! Some people love eating cake and hamburgers and this will cause them to not let go of this physical existence. They are sinning!

We are a hybrid of at least two species. Our spiritual selves, which are what we may consider our true selves chose this humanoid creation of the Ananaki to piggy back on to experience existence on this plane. Problem is we meld so perfectly with our hosts and while joined embrace the flaws the Ananaki or whatever their names are, intentionally included in their creations.

The Earth is sooooooo old...we don't even KNOW if the intent of the bible was for us!! It could have been intended for the people that were here and are mostly gone from millions of years ago. We may simply be adopting religion intended for people from millions of years ago. Someone found a preserved bible somewhere...

Picture this: Everything in the bible happened and was completed millions of years ago. The remnants from that creation passed on what they lived by to the next creation or even evolving primates. The new humans attempt to live by the same documents even though the events in the book have already happened and gone!

There are so many cycles we go through on this planet. I'm pretty sure there was a time when "humans" were walking or flying with the dinosaurs.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
We are a hybrid of at least two species. Our spiritual selves, which are what we may consider our true selves chose this humanoid creation of the Ananaki to piggy back on to experience existence on this plane. Problem is we meld so perfectly with our hosts and while joined embrace the flaws the Ananaki or whatever their names are, intentionally included in their creations.

I would believe humans walked with dinosaurs before I believed that garbage.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
We are a hybrid of at least two species. Our spiritual selves, which are what we may consider our true selves chose this humanoid creation of the Ananaki to piggy back on to experience existence on this plane. Problem is we meld so perfectly with our hosts and while joined embrace the flaws the Ananaki or whatever their names are, intentionally included in their creations.

I would believe humans walked with dinosaurs before I believed that garbage.

LMAO!