Beyond Subjective and Relative; Can We Transcend It?

Hello. May an intention of Peace and Love blanket all who read these words.

One of my greatest observations of my spiritual seeking is of individual subjective relativity.

• Blind Men And An Elephant; Perspective and Relativity
• Human Unification Through Understanding Spiritual Relativity

As co-creating humans in this 'physical' 3-dimensional existence, are we confined to our own relative understandings and experiences, regardless of how 'correct' or transcendental they may seem?

Know Thyself.... Look Within...

However, can we reach a point in our individual seekings and understandings that is truly transcendental rather than relative subjective? Or as 3-Dimensional observers, is subjectiveness the ultimate understanding for us in this existence?

All opinions, ideas, beliefs, speculations, and rebuttals are greatly welcome.
Peace

yes the secret is finding the harmony between body and mind. To understand that all things are impermanent but not the spirit, and the spirit is bound to matter in order to give life and consciousness. If you understand this we can tread lightly on the dangers of samsara and live a relatively peaceful, karmic-free life.

Originally posted by Sahabi
Or as 3-Dimensional observers, is subjectiveness the ultimate understanding for us in this existence?

Not sure exactly what you mean by 3-Dimensional observers, regardless, we live in subjectivity and 'identify' ourselves by the subjectivity in which we live. Self-observation can provide us an objective and 'whole' view of ourselves and the world in which we live. The question is: what is it within us that observes?

reply to post by filosophia


Thank you for sharing. These are great insights that Lord Buddha helped me realize. Impermanence, interconnectedness, and co-dependent co-arising. Through this timeless dharma, I have understood, realized, and experienced them for myself.

However, the essence that we call soul or consciousness has continued to remain relative and subjective to me. Through my deepest insights and most profound meditations, I am still confronted by subjectiveness. Is the understanding of concepts the only thing transcendental? For all of my physical and metaphysical experiences have been relative subjective.

reply to post by kalunom


By '3-Dimensional', I acknowledge that there are higher realms of existence beyond what we as humans can perceive or understand.

By 'observers', I acknowledge that the purpose of life is to observe and to experience.

Beyond all of our sense organs, perceptions, and objects of perception lies the observer. As within, so without. Even beyond this 'observer', is there definitive transcendence?

My understanding:

If something is not "relative" to another thing in some manner (however insignificant)... then it *is* that thing.

Every-thing is relative to every other-thing. If two "things" share identical truths (properties) in all ways, then they are not two things, they are one and the same thing.

Within "The One", everything is relative to every other "part" of "The One" and this can not be escaped.

As "The One", the sum total is objective because there is nothing else "relative" to it... else it wouldn't be "The One".

So as individualizations within all, we are by necessity... relative to each other and thus subjective (red or blue being better is subjective). As the whole, there is no subjectivity... it just "is" and can be no other (the entire color spectrum is not better or worse than itself... it just *is* the spectrum).

Namaste!

BTW, the elephant example is one of my favorites, and I've been thinking of many ways to try to demonstrate this in an interactive way that is both fun and will trigger that "aha!" moment for people who think deeper on it. I know there is a good SmartPhone game to be made out of it that takes advantage of social interactions.

We are imprisoned inside subjective perception. Nothing we can experience could ever be objective. Think about the difference between witnesses of the same event. Even viewing a video of the event would be a subjective experience. We seem to have relative experiences, but that is probably another subjective perception. We can never transcend the subjective nature of our existence.

The mind is a filter.

Truth occurs when the mind is peaceful. There is always only the 'now' moment. This will always be the truth. The experience itself is beyond relative limitations. The experiencer makes the experience relative. As long as you separate the experience from the experiencer, everything will be relative.

reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion


Very nice reply.
Allow me to dig a bit deeper. Each cell and organ within my body are pieces of me (the one). By some unknown force, each cell knows just what to do to come together to make me a functional person. Even when I experience some injury, the cells know just what to do to heal, repair, rebuild, and fight off infection. How do they do this? Are they somehow tapping into my perceptions, thoughts, emotions, or consciousness to know what is going on with me? As above, so below. In this example, can we transcend our individual selves to tap into the 'One' in a way which leaves us all at a definitive 'point' instead of a relative and subjective experience?

The interactive app for the Blind Men and an Elephant concept sure is a great idea to get gears turning in the minds of those still trapped in 'one size fits all' mentality.

reply to post by MichiganSwampBuck


Hello there. You're right; everything in our lives seems to be subjective. We can't even collectively agree on what tastes delicious, or what is the best movie of all time.

It's one thing to be aware of the interconnectedness or the oneness of existence, but I was just wondering if there was some spiritual or metaphysical way to transcend all of the relativity and subjectiveness.

Thanks for weighing in.

reply to post by smithjustinb


• Sacrament of the Present Moment - Catholicism (Jean-Pierre de Caussade)
• Mindfulness of the Present Moment - Buddhism
• Presence without Absence - Islam-Sufism
• Conscious Awareness - New Age Movement

'Now' is definitely a transcendental truth. The practice and awareness of this concept can drastically transform lives! It removes the filters of illusion and distraction created by ego and lower self.

However, while being fully immersed in 'now', being free of all judgement, isn't the experience still subjective according to the faculties of our perceptions and also our relative location of the experience?

reply to post by Sahabi

Here's one of my preferred passage from the Upanishads. You should meditate on it:

If thou thinkest that thou knowest It well, little indeed dost thou know the form of the Brahman. That of It which is thou, that of It which is in the gods, this thou hast to think out. I think It known.

I think not that I know It well and yet I know that It is not unknown to me. He of us who knows It, knows That; he knows that It is not unknown to him.

He by whom It is not thought out, has the thought of It; he by whom It is thought out, knows It not. It is unknown to the discernment of those who discern of It, by those who seek not to discern of It, It is discerned.

When It is known by perception that reflects It, then one has the thought of It, for one finds immortality; by the self one finds the force to attain and by the knowledge one finds immortality.

If here one comes to that knowledge, then one truly is; if here one comes not to the knowledge, then great is the perdition.

Nothing need to to be interposed between the observer and the observed.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

However, while being fully immersed in 'now', being free of all judgement, isn't the experience still subjective according to the faculties of our perceptions and also our relative location of the experience?

Yeah, I guess it would be.

I think the only way to break free from subjectivity would be in meditation.