Death of Kurt Cobain and the Industry

reply to post by HenryTwoTimes


I'm curious on what makes one an expert on music and qualifies them to decide what is good songwriting.

Please elaborate

reply to post by kro32


Musicology

mu·si·col·o·gy noun ˌmyü-zi-ˈkä-lə-jē

Definition of MUSICOLOGY

: the study of music as a branch of knowledge or field of research as distinct from composition or performance

What makes a musicologist more qualified to assess different songs and artists of different time periods and styles than somebody who by their own admission doesn't even listen to or like music all that much? I am pretty sure even somebody with your intellect can figure out the answer to that question.

I know more about music than most, if not all, of the people you have probably ever met in your life. So yeah, that makes me qualified.

Originally posted by kro32
He was not a great musician. I was in the northwest during this whole movement and saw alot of these bands live. Kurt Cobain was no more a musician than any of the other guys coming out of that scene. Their music was a bunch of rabble written during drug induced hazes but once they got popular people translate that into great poetry and stuff which it wasn't.

Do you feel the same way about Hendrix, The Doors, Marc Bolan, Stones, GNR, ... ad infinitum

There are millions of kids today that love Nirvana, who weren't even born when they were popular. Guess they have all been fooled.

Although I am not sure where the OP is going with the thread, being a fan of hardcore and punk music, I have to throw in another conspiracy theory about Kurt's death that hardcore music fans have discussed for years.

The El Duce and Allen Wrench Connection

1. El Duce - Lead Singer of the Mentors - knew Courtney for years (connection through friends, etc)
2. Courtney apparently approached El Duce outside of an LA music store and offered him 50K to "off" Kurt
3. El Duce, drunk and a mess, never took the offer
4. Instead, rumor has it that Allen Wrench completed the task for Courtney
5. Allen Wrench was a staple in the hardcore scene - also a drunk mess and known for violence
6. Duce and Wrench were "friends"
7. Duce did a BBC interview for a documentary, slipped up and mentioned the name "Allen"

8. Duce passed a polygraph to back up his claims about the Courtney offer

9. Witnesses claimed, that Duce was seen out on the town panicked because of the interview.
10. There were further "claims" that Wrench went to Duce's later the same evening and was mad as XXXX.
11. Duce supposedly left with Wrench after a scuffle occured.
12. Duce is found dead that same night, having been hit by a train and under strange circumstances.

Anyway, just a quick snapshot. I always found this theory interesting.

Is it possible he killed himself - Absolutely.Could he have been murdered - Yes.Is there a mysterious curse only effecting great singers/songwriters at the age of 27 - Doubtful

Here are some links for further reading if anyone is interested.

Justice for Kurt Site - El Duce Page
Kurt Conspiracy - With Video Links and supposed suspects
Anonymous Web Author Tells that Wrench Killed Kurt

Its kind of hard to believe any artist is suicidal or was in this case.

As a guitar player i can say that every time i am depressed, sad or at an emotional crossroad i pick up my guitar and play what ever comes to mind with lyrics that come with the moment and after 30 minutes or one hour i am totally refreshed mentally and all my worries are gone so, yeah i am 100% sure thats the case with all the REAL artists out there not like justin bieber or lady gaga or any other fabricated artist that gets a song made by 20 people and just sing it, those i expect to commit suicide because they have absolutely no feelings in put in their songs.

I never bought that Cobain's death was a suicide. It just doesn't make sense. At the time of his death, he had been trying to clean himself up. He had been planning to leave the band and launch a solo career. And most importantly, he was planning on divorcing Courtney Love.

My general assumption was that Courtney doped him up, blew his brains out with a shotgun while making it look like a suicide and then used his credit cards to go on a shopping spree.

Nirvana still goes bye-bye, but Courtney Love is set. She has plenty of motive.

Thanks for the info harlot7, I'd previously read that Courtney had offered someone a large sum to off Kurt but wasn't aware of the names.

Regarding the 27 Club references, no I don't believe there's any mysterious curse on these famous rock n'rollers. I've heard it said before however that a persons programming/life conditioning begins to fall away around this age. Remember Britney shaving off her hair a few years back and going awol? She was never quite as viable to her kiddy audiences again and it wasn't long before the next pop monstrosity, Lady Gaga, was wheeled out to adoring fans.

Mystically 27 is a compound number relating to death and rebirth - Seven and two adds to nine, the number associated with the life force energy frequency (chi, ki or prana). Some people I've spoken with have admitted it was around this age that they began to "awaken" in their lives to a large extent. I actually had my first out of body experience at this age a couple of years ago.

Back to Geffen - He may not have been directly involved in any murder, but we have to ask "cui bono" or who benefits from such a scenario? As I've previously shown Cobain knocked Elvis off the top dead celebrity spot in 2006 raking in over 50 million dollars in that year alone.
If Geffen really wanted to cash in on his man before he upped and left the band (as somebody already pointed out Cobain was set to do), wouldn't it just be convenient that he was sent on his way to "join that f..king club" (as Kurts mother referred to it), allowing a gargantuan pay day for his masters.

I never understood it.

Some talented musicians (and some not so talented) died young and people think it was murder by a higher power but why are so many talented people still alive and not targets?

Think about it, a lot of thrash metal bands had songs that were anti-war and anti-nukes in the 80s with people like James Hetfield, Kirk Hammett, Dave Mustaine and many more at the forefront of that. Why were Metallica not killed for their "...And Justice For All" album since it was anti-corruption, anti-war, anti-US (Hetfield even admitted they felt guilty about trashing their country on that album so they wrote "Don't Tread On Me" for The Black Album as a pro-US song).

Randy Rhoads died in a plane crash. Cliff Burton died when the tour bus skidded, threw him out the window then crashed on top of him not once but twice. Where are the conspiracies about them because they were immensely talented. Hell, Cliff and Les Claypool are considered the Hendrixes for bass players, only Les is alive.

Reason and logic does not prevail in this thread.
Just like reason and logic does not prevail in the life of a bipolar/bpd/addicted individual.

Since this entire site, more and more, looks like an MMORPG to me, and taking the "common sense" roll appears to be a completely losing side.... allow me to contribute to the "conspiracy"....



Kurt must have been murdered if he was a heroin addict.
- - Why would any heroin addict not go out in a "hot shot"?
- - - - Why go through the pain of blowing your brains out?

doesn't make sense to me.


He's not really dead anyway, he's frozen in the same cryogenic chamber as Marilyn Monroe, Tupac, Biggie, and Elvis. And Stevie Ray Vaughn if we're lucky.

Interview with California P.I Tom Grant on the Allan Handelman show -

Well, this is just some speculation on my part but I do have a tenancy to sense the hidden emotions and thoughts that people reveal through their eyes.

Anyway I was watching The Roast of Pamela Anderson a few years ago and there was Courtney Love looking like a real god awful mess sitting beside Pamela on the stage. One of those comedian "roasters", can't remember which, accused Courtney of killing Kurt in his monologue. The reaction I saw on her face and her eyes gave me a strong sensation that she is indeed hiding something terrible in her past about that event. She sort of rolled her eyes back in her head and tilted her head back as if to mimic a "oh not this again" reaction. Less than a second later though you could see her recollection pass through her mind, and I can tell you that she did something very ugly. The shape of her face became that of a guilty party, fearful of being exposed. She had shame written all over her face, and from the moment on I just knew.

Based on that I have to assume she was either involved or instrumental in his death. She is guilty.

reply to post by harlot7


Whoa.. wait a second. You telling me that guy with the fly whip died the same night he did the interview??
The whole thing looked staged a la BBC but if your telling me he died right after the interview from suspicious causes i'm sure gonna look closer.

I have to say this thread is a good read.

For those who think grunge music was overrated and all doesn't get the point.
Its basicly the music of a generation, they sure wasn't as thigh as Lang Lang but the beatles or rolling stone or elvis wasn't doing any better.

Theres no way you can be lame when you are connecting a whole generation. Even if your musical display are below average like most of them.

reply to post by eagleeye2

Of course I cannot confirm any of it, as I wasn't there but if you do some digging on El Duce (Eldon Hoke), mostly all of his fan-sites will discuss this theory. I am almost positive he died shortly after being interviewed and taking the polygraph test. And what are the statistics and likely hood of being hit by a train? I can look up the date of the taping/polygraph vs. his death and I suspect it will be close.

Here is another site on Duce

Unfortunately, Kurt's death, as well as El Duce's will remain a mystery.

I agree that the interview seemed staged, he was a complete wacko. If you ever have a chance to listen to his music you will understand what I mean by that comment. He probably would have acted like that on a Barbara Walters interview.

@Darce - Yes! I saw that roast, it was for Ms. Pammy. It was Jeff Ross who massacred Courtney and I loved every minute of it!