Pitch-black exoplanet found

reply to post by Nicolas Flamel


That is interesting, but I'm not sure if it's all that conclusive...it's hard to say much of anything from this far away.

Given the size and mass, I wouldn't think it as being a Dyson sphere because it wouldn't be large enough.

If we were to build one around Sol (ignoring the fact atm that we'd have to harvest every single resource in the solar system to build it) and were to use it to live inside with spin creating gravity, that would mean that it would have to extend out past Earth's current orbit...so we're talking a sphere the size of a red giant.

Granted they could have ways of mediating the solar output to not need much in the way of worrying about the habital zone, but I find that unlikely. I think the solar rings idea is more plausible, but it still seems like it would be over doing it a bit.

Besides, terraforming is rather cool and I would be sad to think that a type 1-2 wouldn't practice a ton of it.

I look at trying to predict too much of type 1, 2, 3 stuff at our current 0 as similar to how 50 years ago they thought we'd all be flying around on jetpacks with hover cars and stuff...despite the obvious insane risks and massive deathtolls that would probably cause.

reply to post by famalhut


If it was a black hole it would be eating it's star and we could see that, but calculations of its mass make that scenario impossible even if we can't see it.

A star is usually over 99% of the mass of its system, where does one get the materials to construct a Dyson sphere around nearly all of the mass around a star? Is it understood just how astronomical of a logistical engineering assignment that is? It lives only in the minds of Sci Fi writers, really now. You're going to dip into the star to build some ridiculous sphere around it? In what Universe does this happen? How large should it be? As large as the orbit of Mars? Jupiter? Beyond? See how ridiculous that sounds? Yet still, from what?

reply to post by Illustronic


As I mentioned, this Dyson sphere may be around a dwarf star. We know the radius is 1.272 ± 0.041 Jupiter radius or about 90,000 km. Much smaller than a sphere with a radius from the sun to mars.

If the sphere is 1,000 km thick we can do some calculations.

The hollow metal sphere has an internal radius of 89,000 km and an external radius of 90,000 km.

Say it's made entirely of titanium, the density of which is 4.5 g/cm^3

Take PI to be 3.14

V=(4/3)(pi)r^3

Volume of the shell = Volume of 9 x 10^9 cm sphere - Volume of 8.9 x 10^9 cm sphere

Vol(shell)=(4/3)(pi)[729 x 10^9 - 704 x 10^9]

=(4/3)(3.14)(26 x 10^9)

= 1.08 x 10^11 cm^3

Weight = (4.5)(1.08 x 10^11) = 4.86 x 10^11 grams or 4.86 x 10^8 kg

The mass of our Jupiter alone is 1.8986×10^27 kg so these busy bees would have more than enough material.

I'm not saying this is a Dyson sphere, but will we be able to recognize one?

As to whether or not anyone would build one, ask Freeman Dyson.

technically speaking 750 light years is approximately 47,391,000AU away
1 AU =8.3 light minutes
7.22Au to a light hour
173AU to light day
63,188AU per light year
750 light years =47391000 AU roughly

I found this planet so interesting for quite i while now.
First, "tidally locked" would mean that we arent going to see a great deal of this planet ever from our perspective, so its possible this planet vents in the direction of its star, or in another direction we cant actually see. Given the theories for metallic hydrogen these days, underthe given pressure, it could be any old element behaving in some previously unseen manner. But Dyson spheres? I do understand that several writers now have used a gimmick like this, but lets be honest. First, that amount of energy absorbtion from a star would be far more than any solar system could require. Moreover, stars frankly arent exactly what could be caled power efficient. Some super advanced alien race wouldn't spend eons bottling some star for energy purposes, What makes a star useful is that it turns particle bits into bigger atoms. but frankly, stripmining other planets and celestial bodies would be far more efficent and available. especially given that if one can deduce the age of a star, one can deduce the elements that its solar system would contain. Thus, celestial strip mining would be much more economical that putting the sun in a fish tank.

Finally, I am not even sure i beleive in aliens at all, let alone crazy circle obsessed stoner aliens looking to build the universe's largest lava lamp .
(I am sorry, I don't mean to poke fun, but the mental image was just too amusing to keep to myself
)

finally, in your calculations you are requiring an amount of titanuim relative to the size of a planet. In our galaxy there is much, muhc much much much much much less than that

reply to post by theXammux


Wow, you seem to know exactly how much titanium there is in the galaxy, and what the motives of a Class II civilization are.

It's probably not made entirely of titanium, I used that to simplify the equation.

Try explaining to a chimpanzee why we need a nuclear reactor power plant.

A Class II civilization can probably convert elements into other elements at will. We can do that now in our nuclear power plants. They could even convert energy directly into matter, e=mc2. I don't know what a civilization millions if not billions of years ahead of us is thinking, please tell us.

reply to post by Nicolas Flamel


There are much more probable ways any technologically capable civilization would construct a Dyson sphere. The Dyson shell is a dangerous route, given the tendency for objects like comets and asteroids to enter any given area of a solar system...especially so close to the star. If we were to build a Dyson shell around the Sun, it would have a 100% chance of being struck by an asteroid within a few months of its construction. In fact, the probability of it being struck by an asteroid before construction is even completed is just as high. The Dyson shell is a futile project, and no civilization capable of building such a structure would actually waste their time in doing so.

reply to post by CLPrime


Again this is applying human motivations and technology to an alien race. I agree that for us it makes no sense given what we know now. Solar arrays in earth orbit are too much for us to contemplate right now. But where will we be in a million years or a billion years? We might be able to easily divert any asteroid or comet that threatened a C2 civilization's megastructure. Better yet we would directly manipulate and use comets and asteroids.

This is science fiction to be sure, but if they are out there (C2/C3 civilizations) I would like to look for their fingerprints.

reply to post by Nicolas Flamel


I know the tone might seem derogatory, but they're honestly just trying to explain. The sheer amount of resources, at any scale, to build a sphere around -any- star, would require all the matter in the solar system if not way more. Even if they are capable of building the elements they need, they have to build it from existing material (law of the conservation of matter) Nuclear fission and stellar fusion are also vastly different.

We're not saying it's completely impossible - it's just not feasible in the realm of practicality. You essentially destroy every bit of matter in the stellar system...all the planets, moons, etc, and use that matter to construct this beyond enormous sphere. (we won't go into how that could affect the stellar wind, heliopause, etc) So you collect all this insanes amount of energy - to do? And eventually the star dies. Unless you manage to break down the sphere and transport it elsewhere before the star enters the dangerous phases of its death (red giant, etc) all of the materials are lost.

I just don't think that's something a type 2 would do, if any civilization. Whatever system you build it in, you must destroy (even if you bring the sphere with you somehow, the danger the system itself poses to the sphere, especially after all that mass is added to the gravitational well of the star is too great)...the possibility of living there is unknown unless each segment of the sphere is actually a ship that can link up to make the sphere or detach to travel to another star. etc etc etc.

Really it becomes more plausible to harvest energy from the system as a whole through some other non-invasive and nondestructive means. Whether that be millions of remote probes spread throughout or some other unknown means, who can say at this point, but the sphere has some unavoidable roadblocks that just being more advanced cannot eliminate.

The sphere is an alluring concept, there's no doubt about that though.

reply to post by Nicolas Flamel


Its perfectly rational to use human history as a guide to understanding what a possible extrasolar life form might think, or feel, if we look at human history, or that of insects, birds, bacteria, ect. we see the same process again and again. a population builds up, and through on circumstance or another it is largely wiped out losing some or all of its advances since its previous failing, thus, it wouldn't be difficult, in theory to look for half completed objects like dyson spheres, especially given how long they would take to build.

but thats only one of the many problems with this theory, if one assuumes the current popular view of universe creation, the likelyhood that there are civilizations billions of years advanced from our own, dwindles quickly. notice please that i am only commenting on probability and not possibility.

The states of energy in the earliest protogalaxies makes planetary formation unlikely, and chemical complexity necessary for the beginnings of life (at least in terms of physical matter) is virtually impossible. Thus, while it might be fun to imagine superadvanced little aliens with incredible star modifying capacity, from a logical standpoint it is all but impossible given our current understanding of the universe