Andy Fickman, The Race to Witch Mountain, the CIA and UFOs.

I have resigned myself to the fact that the CIA has authoritahhh over everything thhey want authoritahh over.
If they tell Hollywood to jump, Hollywood say how high, how long would you like me to stay in the air, and where would you like me to land?

Of course movie producers get perks and the red carpet treatment for their co-operation but when it is all said and done, CIA gets what CIA wants.

They own this country.
Don't ever forget that.

Bankers are the ones who own this country but, the covert elements of the CIA are the ones who run it!!!!!
If you don't fully understand that by now, well,......you've been duped!!

The advisor also recommended that certain UFO-related content be removed from the script: “there were things we got rid of in the script that he was just trying to follow logic [on] from a protocol standpoint,” said Fickman, although he would not elaborate on the nature of the changes made.

I personally don't mind if stuff is being remove to meet logic protocol what i do mind will be the nature of changes being made.
It is a good idea that the public is given such an awareness and what sort of scenario to prepare for.
might just watch the movie.

Maybe just advertisement for the movie?

reply to post by Wachstum


Well, the movie came out in 2009 and it enjoyed an extensive run on cable in the Spring of this year.

I would be happy to attribute the whole thing to Hollywood Hype but Mr. Fickman has gone a little beyond the pale regarding his claims.

If nothing else it appears to me as though Fickman wanted, and continues to want, to assure himself a place in UFO folklore and history.

Thanks for coming by.

reply to post by Frater210


The original 'witch mountain' from the 70s rocked! Sweet thread

reply to post by Swills


Thanks, Swills.

If you are interested here are coordinates you can put in to Google Earth to see the 'real' witch mountain. It is Brown Mountain, North Carolina and, incidentally, is home to the 'Brown Mt. Lights'.

N 35° 56.525' W 81° 50.513'

We had a guy here at work that used to work for the CIA. He was an "analyst" according to him.
Funny thing he once told me.
If I told you some of the things we did. You wouldn't believe me. I wouldn't believe them if I didn't live it.

So here's the problem. Here we have an unbelievable story. It sounds so outlandish that it couldn't be true. But it just might be. And that's the problem sometimes. Truth can be stranger than fiction.

I'll believe it but I'm going to take it with a grain of salt.

reply to post by grey580


Well, that is where I am at with it as well.

Either he has gone all Fulford on Disney or he is just one totally loose cannon.

If you go to the Graham article at the 49th Parallel site (linked on the top of page 1) or even better, to his blog (also linked) you will see that there is compelling evidence that Disney has been in cahoots with various government agencies since the 1950s. maybe they were not counting on how loose Fickman would be with all this or they don't care, or he is operating according to plan.

More than anything it just seems to stir the hell out of the pot.

Thanks for coming by.

reply to post by Frater210


A movie where the aliens are blue eyed, blond pure blood Aryans?

Yea.

Seems legit.

Me thinks too many Nazis were allowed to much power in the post war years and influenced too many people.

reply to post by Gorman91


You know, Gorman91, I looked in to it, because I never have before, and it looks like reports of blue eyed blonde haired aliens begins in 1950 with Billy Meier.

I am wondering if any other members can comment on this?

reply to post by Frater210


Funny how gods are always in the form of their worshipers.

One has to wonder just how many of these gods, aliens, etc etc are real.

I don't believe in humanoid aliens for that very reason.

reply to post by Gorman91

Funny how gods are always in the form of their worshipers.

That made me do a 180, Gorman91, thanks for making a really good point. I would be interested to learn if there actually have been any reports of 'Nordics' prior to 1948 or so.

reply to post by Frater210


Well that all depends on what you're willing to call an alien. Obviously from our own observations, An alien would probably want to be seen in a human form to not get a thousand spears/arrows/bullets/nukes thrown at it. So holograms or robots, etc etc, always work pretty well.

I'll do a semi-short thought chain on what I think :

Simple research reveals that most religions in the world can be reduced down to a few basic groups: Atheistic, Indo-european, Abrahamic, and local myth.

I want to take note of Indo-European. Pretty much, most religions before Christianity, from Scotland, to Pakistan, find their origins in the Indo-European Pantheon. Mysteriously, we can even trace this lineage to the Americas. More on that later.

The Indo-European tradition essentially finds its origins in India, some time a few thousand years ago. At best guess, a couple of queens and kings were well established, and worshiped by their underlings. The level of accomplishments are not exactly known, but what is known is that the Indo-European tradition is responsible for a whole host of early cultural parallels. Ranging from the form of buildings that would later be used in Greek Temples and Chinese buildings (this being triangle roof, column supports, inner temple), to simple ideas in language and myth. These original leaders were powerful and successful enough to essentially be the source of "gods". From Zeus, to Jupiter, to Thor, to many others. Originating with these kings and queens. Everywhere this culture moved, it adapted to local traditions, and local traditions added on their own local gods as their own kings and queens accomplished things. From Imhotep in Egypt, whom built the first pyramid, to Asclepius in Greece, a doctor.

Elsewhere, these traditions were rejected. And thus you have Buddhism. and Stoicism. And still more, elsewhere these traditions were overshadowed by far older traditions, such as in the Abrahamic faiths.

How exactly is unknown, but they found their way to America. There's many possible ways, from 1750 records of a priest finding ruins in Pennsylvania with Hebrew writing on it. (before Mormons, btw, which begs to question where they got their ideas), to the fact that while Central America did not have the wheel, burial chambers have India-styled wheeled animals, and depictions of myths in stone near-identical to those in India.

We know these religions are linked for the fact that wherever it went, the same pantheon of gods is near-always seen, and they always have similar cultural ideas, like a tree of life.

Read more here.

en.wikipedia.org...


Now, aliens.

In the Bible, little in the Koran, and elsewhere, there is mention of beings whom man created with something else. The Bible calls them a couple of names, such as Nephilim, or the Jinn in Islam. There's also a few other words used. Medieval translators simply called them giants, without having much to go on other than their physical descriptions, which are few. Bible calls them many names, such as Long-necked, Dead ones, or fearful ones. The origin of the phrase "unforgivable sin" is supposedly from them. Bible also rarely differentiates them to ordinary humans who sin. It seems that whatever they are, this much is known: they have no salvation, they will not be risen up on the last day, and they are possibly the source of "possessions" and other such things. Because the ancient traditions often describe them as beings of light, or morning star, one gets a general feel that they are creatures that seem to work in pure energy and electricity. Almost as if they project themselves from wherever they are, into our reality. Bible also says that they essentially left the Earth during the flood, and came back later. Where did they go? How did they leave the Earth? Jude 1 also describes them, in some translations, as

wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.

To me, these all point to whom those leaders of long ago were in India. The original "zeus/thor/Jupiter" and the lot.

I don't necessarily think they are aliens in the sense of things that evolved on another world. I tend to view them as literally aliens of reality itself.



Now on to science.

Evolution-wise, aliens that evolve on another world can be semi-predicted. But you cannot think of them in the sense of humans. Look at the Earth. Humans make up for 5 million years and about a dozen species, out of the 3.5 billion years and 500 million+ species that have ever existed. We're simply not likely to evolve elsewhere because of statistics. Now look at other species that show intelligence, tool use, and skills. Crows, Octopus, Whales, Dolphins, Elephants. These are species with long histories of evolution going back hundreds of millions of years. Fact is, if you took something like an octopus or crow, and give it a billion years, it's likely to be far more successful than mankind.

You do not have to be as intelligent as a human to be more successful as a human. Reason is humans are exponential creatures. Technology, culture, etc etc. It's all exponential is development. Problem is, this is inherently unstable. Linear advancements are far more stable. A creature less intelligent than man with the ability to do math, draw, and think, will statistically last and develop better than a human being.

A crow's brain, for example, is amazing. It's the size of a walnut, and yet just around as intelligent as an ape's brain, except in emotion. So why is that? A closer look reveals that the Crow's brain is jam-packed with networks. Literally beyond expectation. Thus, in the fields of tool use, the Crow is more intelligent than an ape. Does the crow have hands? Does the crow walk upright? No. Yet it makes spears and hunts grubs. It uses rocks to raise water level and drink it.

Thus aliens are more likely to look like the creatures on Earth that are just bellow us in intelligence, because they've been here longer, adapted better, and are far more socially stable.

When we go out into space, do not be surprised to find all the planets that had life like us to be radiated hell holes of failed civilizations. It's not all that bad though. Fact is you don't have to be the smartest to be the most successful.

reply to post by Gorman91


Thank you so much for that post, G91. I can't help but think that you and I must be trying to work out some of the same problems. I t was a pleasure to read your thought chain.

The way that you described the 'roaming culture' made me think of things like, for instance, Phrygian caps. It is said that the ancient Phrygian cap signified freedom; yet in Greek culture it represented barbarism and being non-Greek. Check it out...

The Phrygian cap is a soft conical cap with the top pulled forward, associated in antiquity with the inhabitants of Phrygia, a region of central Anatolia.

In the western provinces of the Roman Empire it came to signify freedom and the pursuit of liberty, perhaps through a confusion with the pileus, the manumitted slave's felt cap of ancient Rome. Accordingly, the Phrygian cap is sometimes called a liberty cap; in artistic representations it signifies freedom and the pursuit of liberty.

In Antiquity, the Phrygian cap had two connotations: for the Greeks as showing a distinctive Eastern influence of non-Greek "barbarism" (in the classical sense) and among the Romans as a badge of liberty. The Phrygian cap identifies Trojans such as Paris in vase-paintings and sculpture, and it is worn by the syncretic Persian saviour god Mithras and by the Anatolian god Attis who were later adopted by Romans and Hellenic cultures. The twins Castor and Pollux wear a superficially similar round cap called the pileus.

In late Republican Rome, the cap of freedmen served as a symbol of freedom from tyranny. A coin issued by Brutus in Asia Minor 44–42 BC, showed one posed between two daggers. During the Roman Empire, the Phrygian cap (Latin: pileus) was worn on festive occasions such as the Saturnalia, and by emancipated slaves, whose descendants were consequently considered citizens of the Empire. This usage is often considered the root of its meaning as a symbol of liberty.

In revolutionary France, the cap or bonnet rouge was first seen publicly in May 1790, at a festival in Troyes adorning a statue representing the nation, and at Lyon, on a lance carried by the goddess Libertas.To this day the national emblem of France, Marianne, is shown wearing a Phrygian cap.

The cap was also incorporated into the symbol of the late 18th century Irish revolutionary organisation the Society of the United Irishmen.

The Phrygian cap has been used to symbolize liberty in numerous countries of the Americas. For example, starting in 1793 United States of America coinage frequently showed liberty wearing the cap or, on many 19th Century pieces, holding it on a Liberty Pole.

Many of the anti-colonial revolutions in Mexico and South America were heavily inspired by the imagery and slogans of the American and French Revolutions. As a result, the cap has appeared on the coats of arms of many Latin American nations.

And I won't even go in to Fulcanelli, who cites the Phrygian cap in one of his books and considers it an Alchemical symbol having to do with wisdom

Popular hat. All that to say that I have always wondered why a hat that became a symbol of freedom in Rome had its origins in a hat from ancient Greece that symbolized barbarism. It has always made me scratch my head. And also the fact that it originally symbolized freedom in only a small portion of the Roman empire; Phrygia.

So could it be that the hat symbolized Free Men in Greece as well but that the Greek culture that held sway considered those that did not participate barbarians? And in Phrygia, at a time when Romans were beginning to accept Mithras and soon Christ, did the hat represent a kind of coming out party that spread across the world as people stood out and declared themselves free of an oppressive Empire?
"The Empire Never Ended"; as Philip Dick said in Valis.

I hate that we forget our past. So that is enough on the hat.

And your other writing made me think of the Roma People (The Gypsies); I have a special interest in them even though it is a mostly fruitless pursuit; they are a subtle bunch.

And I was wondering if you have any thoughts on Tubal Cain, The Gypsies and your Jude 1 quote?

Thanks, G91.


And, Oh. I am a huge fan of crows and ravens. I have a crow call and I am sometimes successful in instigating a fly over. I would never hunt them; I just want to interact with them somehow. Had a supervisor years ago that nursed one back to health and fed it and its bunch of friends bread from the cafeteria every morning.

reply to post by Frater210


ha, I could pose a theory on your hat thoughts. But its kind of late and I don't feel like looking it up 100%, so sorry if I get some small things off.

Hopefully it's not too off topic, as it does sort of link to German influence perhaps.

Essentially, the first people of Rome were immigrants moving south from Germany, this being the origin of the Dacians, somewhat known as barbarians to Greece. The immigrants settled in Rome and came under the rule of Etruscans. We know that the first Romans were German because they often are depicted with red hair, and many rulers had red hair as well. They had a fight, and Rome declared itself independent. So here we have two possible points for which the hats come from. Either as an imported tradition from Germany, or as a revolution against Greek rule. After independence, Rome eventually came to rule over Italy, later conquering the Greeks. Rome didn't develop the style of architecture they had, though, in the early days. Rome simply decided that they weren't going to be barbarians and they were going to pretend that they never were. They blatantly stole Greek tradition and architecture, and chose the work of Zeno of Citium for the functions of their government. Here of course we see parallels to America, with founding a government from the knowledge of a forgiven country.

Funny thing about the Dacians and the Greeks though. essentially, here's the timeline:
The Minoan Empir was a very advanced empire, just a little less advanced than Rome. They had fine architecture, running water, a powerful navy, and many other advancements ahead of their time. Suddenly Minoa was destroyed by a volcanic eruption. This event may have been the reason for the destruction during the time of Moses in Egypt, btw. earlier eruptions may be the source for Sodom and Gomorrah's destruction.

Mycenaean Greece than overran Minoa. It was in these days that Greece was put into a dark age. When it came out, most of the myths of Greece, ranging from Troy to the rest, occurred.

Rome claims to be descendant from Troy, which makes sense. They would run away north into the Dacians, and some time later come back down.

Some barbarians that were hired here found their way from Troy into the camps of the Philistines. One such barbarian may have been Goliath, whom David fought.

Just to help you with some perspective of how things interact.

To make it related to the thread, think about aliens. Think about their cultural impact, their origins, and their changes.

Aliens long ago were depicted as "little green men". Even the earliest films showed them as essentially human.

Later advancements show them to be more defined features. Weather it be reptilian, or it be gray.

As science and technology has caught up with myth, educated individuals have researched what they would probably look like, creating such things such as Nemo Ramjet's Avisapiens, or "falling sky's" various things, even Half Life's Combine.

There's a general rule about intelligence and depiction of real events that are beyond our understanding. The more intelligent or understanding a person is, the more abstract the thing they see is. The less knowing a person is, the more likely they are to simply say "little green men" with three eyes or something. This isn't n insult to the idea of humanoid aliens. believe me, to find just one humanoid alien would demand evolution be rethought and would give considerable proof to a creator. But the science doesn't back it up. Thus if you want a general idea of what aliens will look like, look at the life around you that's been here billions of years.

As to Tubal Cain, not sure what you want me to say about it.

I suppose we could move this to PMs in terms of unrelated stuff.