We're Taking Back Our Government, and This Is What We Have To Say

Originally posted by Je3Re3My
I have read through all of your posts and you seem to simply criticize everything being said. Instead, why don't you offer solutions and not worry about making everyone in America happy. Of course there will be disagreements among the people...there already is, everywhere. So, I already know you disagree with the OP, but now offer some solutions that might, in your mind, progress this thread in some way. If you are saying that the OP is wrong then you have voiced your opinion and there really is no point to keep arguing with people that agree with the OP. It then seems that you are angry that certain people are not agreeing with you...which seems hypocritical.

Did you really read through all of them?

Originally posted by Kitilani
While I may not know the best way to treat 3rd degree burns on someone's face that will not prevent me from suggesting a shotgun to the face is NOT a good solution.

Because it looks like you missed a little something. No I do not agree with the OP. That is ok, right? This is still a discussion forum and not his private diary, right?

Funny thing is I read through all your post in this thread and see nothing but you criticizing me. You offer no solutions, alternatives, or even any kind of discussion about such things. Nope. All you wrote about was how you want something from me that I not only never offered but also already answered to. Watch out for falling glass while tossing stones around.

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by Je3Re3My
I have read through all of your posts and you seem to simply criticize everything being said. Instead, why don't you offer solutions and not worry about making everyone in America happy. Of course there will be disagreements among the people...there already is, everywhere. So, I already know you disagree with the OP, but now offer some solutions that might, in your mind, progress this thread in some way. If you are saying that the OP is wrong then you have voiced your opinion and there really is no point to keep arguing with people that agree with the OP. It then seems that you are angry that certain people are not agreeing with you...which seems hypocritical.

Did you really read through all of them?

Originally posted by Kitilani
While I may not know the best way to treat 3rd degree burns on someone's face that will not prevent me from suggesting a shotgun to the face is NOT a good solution.

Because it looks like you missed a little something. No I do not agree with the OP. That is ok, right? This is still a discussion forum and not his private diary, right?

Funny thing is I read through all your post in this thread and see nothing but you criticizing me. You offer no solutions, alternatives, or even any kind of discussion about such things. Nope. All you wrote about was how you want something from me that I not only never offered but also already answered to. Watch out for falling glass while tossing stones around.

edit on 5-8-2011 by Kitilani because: (no reason given)

Yes, I read through all of them, hence the post. Also, I can see you are bothered by someone doing what you seem to be doing, which is why I used the word hypocritical.

Originally posted by Kitilani
What you are advocating is regulations. The same regulations that Paul is against.

Actually what I'm advocating is de-regulation by government. There are free market solutions to everything government does. Take product safety testing. There is a non governmental organisation that's sole business is dependent on its reputation. That is Underwriters Laboratories, and while you can find products that have not been approved by UL, you would be foolish to buy them. Compare that to say government auto safety laws, there is nothing safe with an airbag blowing up in your face.

it mainly handled by arbitrators. Since arbitration requires a consensus of the parties in question and since loser pays as long as your case is solid, there should be little issue of getting an arbitrator to take on a corp.

Notice how you did not even actually answer the question I asked? Yeah, I noticed that too.

In fact I did answer it, it would be handled in arbitration.

At its core, arbitration is a form of dispute resolution. Arbitration is the private, judicial determination of a dispute, by an independent third party. An arbitration hearing may involve the use of an individual arbitrator or a tribunal. A tribunal may consist of any number of arbitrators though some legal systems insist on an odd number for obvious reasons of wishing to avoid a tie. One and three are the most common numbers of arbitrators. The disputing parties hand over their power to decide the dispute to the arbitrator(s). Arbitration is an alternative to court action (litigation), and generally, just as final and binding (unlike mediation, negotiation and conciliation which are non-binding).
General principles of arbitration are as follows:

The object of arbitration is to obtain a fair resolution of disputes by an impartial third party without unnecessary expense or delay.

Parties should be free to agree how their disputes are resolved, subject only to such safeguards as are necessary in the public interest.

Courts should not interfere.

www.mediate.com...
So, you see, there is already a free market system to deal with this sort of thing.

Hahah reminds me of a Bottom Sketch (UK comedy).
Rick gets into trouble and instead of fighting he rights the guy a letter hahah.
On a less humorous note it will only ruffle a few feathers,I just hope its not completely pointless because action needs to be taken and taken soon before total collapse.



Here is a good conspiracy though Ron Paul is doing the Emporer's trick in Star Wars setting the goverment up to fail and becoming the hero freedom and justice, you never know................

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Janky Red

What you personally think you can or cannot do is not the issue. If your case is solid, without the governments protections granted to companies it would be very possible to sue.

It is entirely the issue, I am adamantly against the idea of letting corporations form miniature governments, law and rules that will dictate the terms of the world around me. Kings enslaved entire countries with money and an idea... it is the condensation of private power that I am against, the influence,the size and nature of a corporation. Mindless, a corporation's goal as a concept, is to CONDENSE market share turn profit - gain influence - turn profit, influence, expand market share, profit, invested into influence, repeat.. there is one goal besides the obvious goal, money. This is influence... the ability to create a self servicing system. As a human being you are missing a very key component to your perspective of this place we live in called Earth. There are animal laws that take hold of mankind as a mater of nature. The idea of a leader, leadership, being lead or controlled is not born of public or private distinction, it is born of money, 1st, 1# way, most important factor into creating influence on this Earth. Adam Smith himself seemed to believe that our system needed to be paired with ethics or in order to function properly, the problem is ethics can be hard to come by in a corporate setting, where you are LEGALLY protected from your concept's(companies') actions. If you benefit from something you re not going to impede that benefit and if you cannot be questioned or impeded what is to stop a company from trying to replace government? They are the same in structure, they are mindless, clumsy and dangerous.

At the end of the day, I think I recognize something that you do not, you may not being conscious of the specific
things that I comprehend, like a radio turned to a different dial. I am sure you and Paul have some correct ideas,
but I just as sure that the ideas that you believe, will repel corporation and corporatocracy are very ill conceived.
They are so weak and impotent in fact, it strikes me as almost insulting, I try not to be insulted...

Tell me, in all the contracts you have signed or entered into - (including using this web-site) - can you quantify what (per cent, percent) of words have you contributed to the total words in all the contracts?

Like for ATS, did have any say on terms of your condition here? It was one way or no way.

Go use Google... same thing

Now buy something on Ebay... did you get to enumerate anything into any of the three contracts beside acquiesce or resistance?

You know when I drive I am bound to a contract to the people who, leverage me out of a mishap.
When I buy a song, I have to obey by certain terms which are, again controlled by yet another.
I access my money, there are terms in using the machine or the teller, rules I do not control.
A teller freezes my account, tough crap Janky, Cable company goes out, do I get to recuperate money? no
I but I can find 5 contracts you entered into today... you know what... you are entered into 4 right now as you read this


the contract associated with your operating system
your ISP
the Browser your are using to access the internet
and your participation on this thread, ATS

Those contracts intersect with other contracts too...



that is three pieces of private law that are designed, by nature of a good contract and lawyer, to remove your, NeroSlam's, legal rights from you. DID YOU HAVE ANY INPUT into the body of those enumerations? what percent was your input today? Was there a reasonable method available for you to challenge any of it?

one sided, contractually obligatory situations everywhere, all corporate in nature, you are clearly not paying attention.


eat the whole bowl of shyza or go hungry.

.

And yet you don't support getting rid of these protections

No, you don't want to end the benefits, how can you ensure something is implemented if you apply complete passivity to the contract? In otherwords, you have no real viable way for people to address or impede corporate dominance in this world. You don't want to DO anything, you want to give them less rules and guidelines than a person driving a car. Everything from baking a cake to brain-surgery have common sense considerations that are vital to the outcome, some of those are put into law to signify the threshold of a crime. You and Paul seem to think, historically corrupt and devious constructs are going to become vitreous because they (the corporations) are more free to do anything they want? Would letting murderer be free of laws, heal his sickness, or curb his impulses?

No,

the idea is nonsensical.

I believe that everyone living on the gulf coast has been harmed by the BP spill, so my statement stands, or did you not read "everyone in the gulf"?

Can you prove that BP will give people cancer???

Does that mean B.P's irresponsible action will not cause cancer???

edit on 5-8-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)

I'm not an American per se, but I've come here a couple of years ago as an immigrant and feel that there is something terribly wrong with your government.

What is wrong you may ask? Well for starters, you guys pay a lot of taxes and your government is still in dire straits. Your healthcare and educational system needs a serious overhaul and no body's doing it. You have these huge corporations who are currently running your government and you don't feel at all disturbed by it. And you should be angry, very angry, but you're not.

This being said, such threads seem really adorable to me, you're trying to reach peoples sensibilities and get them to wake up and do something about a government who is increasing its military budget every year at the expense of its healthcare and educational standards.

But a declaration as such will never be enough, you simply need to get a bunch of honest people into government elected and support them so they'll clean out the weeds so to speak. Oh boy, what a scandalous clean out that will be.

Originally posted by nusnus
I'm not an American per se, but I've come here a couple of years ago as an immigrant and feel that there is something terribly wrong with your government.

How cute. Illegal immigrants are telling us how THEY feel the country should be run. It's not enough that our taxes go to fund welfare and other programs for these people and their rotten children. No, now you have to go and offer your advice on what our policies and practices should be because hey, America could benefit from operating like Mexico! We're just not running ourselves hard enough into the ground! While we're at it, let's fuse the two countries together and call it Mexerica! Yeah!! First Latino American President as well!

Originally posted by Kinaro

Originally posted by nusnus
I'm not an American per se, but I've come here a couple of years ago as an immigrant and feel that there is something terribly wrong with your government.

How cute. Illegal immigrants are telling us how THEY feel the country should be run. It's not enough that our taxes go to fund welfare and other programs for these people and their rotten children. No, now you have to go and offer your advice on what our policies and practices should be because hey, America could benefit from operating like Mexico! We're just not running ourselves hard enough into the ground! While we're at it, let's fuse the two countries together and call it Mexerica! Yeah!! First Latino American President as well!

No idea how you presumed I was illegal but you're rant shows you make a lot of assumptions about other people.

So you're not exactly very healthy, or have you had too much to drink?

I'm not illegal, I'm not even from Mexico : /

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Kitilani
What you are advocating is regulations. The same regulations that Paul is against.

Actually what I'm advocating is de-regulation by government. There are free market solutions to everything government does.

What is the free market solution to Fukushima?

The proper regulatory solution would have been requiring proper contingencies to be in place, PRIOR to
operation of a massive, potential, nuclear bomb. That is the complete opposite of what you and Paul are advocating, it is also intelligent, doable, possible and completely in line with sanity. The free market solution to
Fukushima is nothing, problem DONE, finished, no recourse... Will the thousands and thousands of Women who lose babies be able to prove or prosecute infanticide caused by this mess?How about the countless future cancer victims? Who pays for that, Why do "they" pay for that? Answer; because it is happening to them and the corporation can deny and diminish or eliminate recourse through legal manners.

Again this is so basic I can't believe I feel the need to explain the basic functions of this idea put into motion.

Many of your market solutions = NO REAL SOLUTION once the equation is worked through.

How many of us are seeing this same dynamic on this thread??? You are not, I can't understand why, but
you are woefully ignoring valid things that have been laid out for you in a few different manners.

Originally posted by nusnus

Originally posted by Kinaro

Originally posted by nusnus
I'm not an American per se, but I've come here a couple of years ago as an immigrant and feel that there is something terribly wrong with your government.

How cute. Illegal immigrants are telling us how THEY feel the country should be run. It's not enough that our taxes go to fund welfare and other programs for these people and their rotten children. No, now you have to go and offer your advice on what our policies and practices should be because hey, America could benefit from operating like Mexico! We're just not running ourselves hard enough into the ground! While we're at it, let's fuse the two countries together and call it Mexerica! Yeah!! First Latino American President as well!

No idea how you presumed I was illegal but you're rant shows you make a lot of assumptions about other people.

So you're not exactly very healthy, or have you had too much to drink?

I'm not illegal, I'm not even from Mexico : /

edit on 5-8-2011 by nusnus because: (no reason given)

Damned Iraqistanis! Trying to blow up buses and stoled all cookies from the 7/11 across the U.S countryside!



good heavens

Originally posted by Janky Red
What is the free market solution to Fukushima?

The proper regulatory solution would have been requiring proper contingencies to be in place, PRIOR to
operation of a massive, potential, nuclear bomb. That is the complete opposite of what you and Paul are advocating, it is also intelligent, doable, possible and completely in line with sanity. The free market solution to
Fukushima is nothing, problem DONE, finished, no recourse... Will the thousands and thousands of Women who lose babies be able to prove or prosecute infanticide caused by this mess?How about the countless future cancer victims? Who pays for that, Why do "they" pay for that? Answer; because it is happening to them and the corporation can deny and diminish or eliminate recourse through legal manners.

I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. Your arguments keep jumping back to use the current system to prove your point, when in fact its the cause of the problem. By eliminating the government regulations that allow this stuff to happen, you in fact open the door to whole new levels of responsibility. I have given the recourse in a free market, and while you don't actually address anything I have said, you continue to argue as if the free market is what we have now.

Again this is so basic I can't believe I feel the need to explain the basic functions of this idea put into motion.

Many of your market solutions = NO REAL SOLUTION once the equation is worked through.

How many of us are seeing this same dynamic on this thread??? You are not, I can't understand why, but
you are woefully ignoring valid things that have been laid out for you in a few different manners.

Since you feel I'm to stupid to hold a conversation with, just go ahead and ignore me.

Originally posted by NuroSlam

I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. Your arguments keep jumping back to use the current system to prove your point, when in fact its the cause of the problem. By eliminating the government regulations that allow this stuff to happen, you in fact open the door to whole new levels of responsibility. I have given the recourse in a free market, and while you don't actually address anything I have said, you continue to argue as if the free market is what we have now.

I do not need to experience be shot in the face to understand many things about being shot in the face.
I can tell you two hundred things about being shot in the face having never been shot in the face before.

I am not speaking magic or Korean, I not sure what world you are referring to? Responsibility
You mean getting shafted and accepting it? really man???

Your own avatar has the word anarchy in it, yet you are unable to extrapolate oligarchy from the same situation?
Responsibilty

I don' think you are dumb, I know very smart people who agree with you...

Many of your market solutions = NO REAL SOLUTION once the equation is worked through.

How many of us are seeing this same dynamic on this thread??? You are not, I can't understand why, but
you are woefully ignoring valid things that have been laid out for you in a few different manners.

Since you feel I'm to stupid to hold a conversation with, just go ahead and ignore me.

I will ask you again, how many contract did you enter into today

How many terms, aside from, yes/accept or no/decline, did negotiate in your behalf?

List three HERE; legal terms you stipulated today...right here

if your idea is workable some portion of it should work organically, let us see, prove to us that you even have
a legal voice in the current, muffled corporate surroundings. Proof on concept isn't asking to much is it?

Show me 4+4=8

Here, fill me in ->


#1

#2

#3

edit on 5-8-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-8-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Janky Red
Your own avatar has the word anarchy in it, yet you are unable to extrapolate oligarchy from the same situation?
Responsibilty

Very true, when you remove the individuals right to life liberty and property you get an oligarchy.

I don' think you are dumb, I know very smart people who agree with you...

Then maybe you shouldn't be so condescending in your remarks.

I will ask you again, how many contract did you enter into today

Not a single one, I sat on my big fat rear end enjoying my vacation

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Since you feel I'm to stupid to hold a conversation with, just go ahead and ignore me.

No, I want you to back your claims up

I want you to answer my questions so that you recognize you are missing vital points of logic in your
equation. I am asking you specific question because your mistakes are specific, the questions are intended to
highlight what you are ignoring.

Go ahead and ask me any question you have, anything you think will diminish my argument, ask it.

I would rather you be independent and learn to think beyond Paul, Obama or Reagan

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Janky Red
Your own avatar has the word anarchy in it, yet you are unable to extrapolate oligarchy from the same situation?
Responsibilty

Very true, when you remove the individuals right to life liberty and property you get an oligarchy.

I don' think you are dumb, I know very smart people who agree with you...

Then maybe you shouldn't be so condescending in your remarks.

I will ask you again, how many contract did you enter into today

Not a single one, I sat on my big fat rear end enjoying my vacation

Yes, but do you considered HOW oligarchy is structured? It is like a government and a corporation alike

Individuals are neither, that is a key, you are applying individual traits to collectives and then getting distorted
summations.

I am not trying to be condescending, I am sorry, I am passionate and I have been repeating myself for many years. I have had this same exact argument at least hundred and fifty times, exactly that same hurdles and points of contention. sorry

My point of the contracts is, you are a very weak legal entity, you have zero legal input into the terms of your
internet experience, that is just here online.

Let us say you disagreed with ATS's policies, but still wanted to use ATS... Do you have any input into
the contract that is formed here when you open a page.

again, you are in four contracts as we speak...

Operating system (computer)
ISP(modem)
Browser (Internet exploder, safari, foxfire)
ATS

You are drowning on it, you have no say, but you do have recourse based upon the statutes, even though you are in a private contract, you currently have, extraconstitutional positions to give you leverage in court based upon, statuary codified law, both state and federal.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Since you feel I'm to stupid to hold a conversation with, just go ahead and ignore me.

No, I want you to back your claims up

I want you to answer my questions so that you recognize you are missing vital points of logic in your
equation. I am asking you specific question because your mistakes are specific, the questions are intended to
highlight what you are ignoring.

Go ahead and ask me any question you have, anything you think will diminish my argument, ask it.

I would rather you be independent and learn to think beyond Paul, Obama or Reagan

What exactly makes you think I even support Dr. Paul, Mr. Obama or even his holiness Mr. Reagan.

Please tell me, how far does a contingency plan need to go? Does a nuclear plant need to plan for an interplanetary invasion? In a free market system, one where there is no "government granted monopolies" then reputation as well as liability becomes the status quo. Yes, it is about the dollar, currently, risk assessment is based upon government limited responsibility, not upon the individual making the decision being held accountable. In a real free market system, where the individuals rights are sacrosanct everyone is accountable.

You mention contracts and terms and agreements, and you are right, they are one sided, however I have complete control over them. I can say yes or no, I have turned down both contracts and EULA's. I don't use ebay, i dont care for their getting in bed with government. My OS and browser are open sourced, i made that choice in the early 90's. I refuse to use any product from the two "big boys". I made the choice of my phone based upon my beliefs.
I will tell you there is one contract I wish i never signed, and that was the one that made me a member of the US Army. altho, doing that has led me down the path I now follow.

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Janky Red
Since you feel I'm to stupid to hold a conversation with, just go ahead and ignore me.

No, I want you to back your claims up

I want you to answer my questions so that you recognize you are missing vital points of logic in your
equation. I am asking you specific question because your mistakes are specific, the questions are intended to
highlight what you are ignoring.

Go ahead and ask me any question you have, anything you think will diminish my argument, ask it.

I would rather you be independent and learn to think beyond Paul, Obama or Reagan

What exactly makes you think I even support Dr. Paul, Mr. Obama or even his holiness Mr. Reagan.

Please tell me, how far does a contingency plan need to go? Does a nuclear plant need to plan for an interplanetary invasion? In a free market system, one where there is no "government granted monopolies" then reputation as well as liability becomes the status quo. Yes, it is about the dollar, currently, risk assessment is based upon government limited responsibility, not upon the individual making the decision being held accountable. In a real free market system, where the individuals rights are sacrosanct everyone is accountable.

You mention contracts and terms and agreements, and you are right, they are one sided, however I have complete control over them. I can say yes or no, I have turned down both contracts and EULA's. I don't use ebay, i dont care for their getting in bed with government. My OS and browser are open sourced, i made that choice in the early 90's. I refuse to use any product from the two "big boys". I made the choice of my phone based upon my beliefs.
I will tell you there is one contract I wish i never signed, and that was the one that made me a member of the US Army. altho, doing that has led me down the path I now follow.

edit on 5-8-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-8-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)

But you don't see a problem in being a world where you have zero input into the terms
you are engaged in? It was NOT this way during the founding, yet you don't question the fundamental
insanity of being so underrepresented as a member of this US of A.

When individual rights are sacrosanct... you know how vague that is? That is you trying to hide away the
fallacy in your argument. you are building a cocoon and hiding it in there. I could say when things are better,
flowers will be respected. When people are honest, people will be treated fairly.

Life is what happens when you busy making other plans... What about the world we live in here, today?

Have you noticed that several of us are saying the same thing to you?

Originally posted by Janky Red
But you don't see a problem in being a world where you have zero input into the terms
you are engaged in? It was NOT this way during the founding, yet you don't question the fundamental
insanity of being so underrepresented as a member of this US of A.

When individual rights are sacrosanct... you know how vague that is? That is you trying to hide away the
fallacy in your argument. you are building a cocoon and hiding it in there. I could say when things are better,
flowers will be respected. When people are honest, people will be treated fairly.

Life is what happens when you busy making other plans... What about the world we live in here, today?

Have you noticed that several of us are saying the same thing to you?

Who said I don't see a problem, in fact that is THE problem, as i said, i have the right to say yes or no, and until a gun is placed to my head, I will always have 100% input into the contracts i sign.

Individual rights are vague? I think they are right on the point. I don't care what other people are "saying". What I do notice is someone asked about Dr. Pauls views and now I have been attacked not for supporting them but expressing them to someone who asked. I don't support Dr. Paul with money or my vote since he seems to think government is still a solution. I don't give a rats rear end if you want to have people tell you how to live your life, that is your choice. I refuse to ignore the gun in the room. I will make this as clear as I can to you, i do not support any political candidate, I do not vote(i haven't voted in many many years as I don't believe i have the right to force my "morals" on anyone else).
you havent really asked me any questions what you have done is attack me at every point because I don't think like you, I once did, but that time is gone.

Op, very well written and thought out. I commend you on your thoughts and wisdom that you put into writing such a thesis. I, however feel that the American people will not be so rezealiant in their stance until they get the American scurvyed teat out of their mouth and stand on their own two feet, such as their grand-parents did at one time.

S&F

reply to post by ForeverDusk


Once believed all, now believe none, what triumphs I hear the evil has done. With the angle and tilt the world spins today, Reflecting back puts the demons away. Back to our leaders, our fathers, our line in the sand, The heartache, the peace, the real money at hand. That thump, that lurking lump of liberty in my throat, The tears, the blood that keeps it afloat, My whisper in the dark, the shot across her bow, DON'T TREAD ON ME, not then, NOT NOW!

A call to arms be the last time we speak, a call to arms to filter the weak. Let it stand alone by the fire, keeping it fed and never to tire. Let it be the last to the table, but keep it there as truth or fable. Let it be known to all who forsake us, that beat us, that spin us trying to take us. A call to arms be the last time we speak, a call to arms will filter the meek. Then only the mighty will stand, never again to be the lay of the land.

When does it become a must? When does it become something that has to be known? Not something thought but something shown. When everything else falls to the wayside, living on mounts and fleeing the bay side. A shout, a yell, a call from the hills, changing all and conquering shills. While we bleed out, burn out and limit our souls, they watch from on high, dodging shifting shoals. Watching the rising tide of the Republic, praying their lies never become public. They can see it, we can feel it, that rogue wave of liberty, speeding towards the walls of deceit, washing the human suffering from under our feet. The earth will bellow a loud roar, in the distance the phoenix will soar. Hard right rudder, full steam ahead, long live the Republic, with the tyranny we'll shed.




* At the age of 29 I now feel that NOTHING is more important then the liberty we once had. For all the deniers and haters on this thread, your ignorance will be NO EXCUSE when our day comes. When I say OUR, I mean all who feel that tilt, that tug of tyranny and greed and know it is either now or never. STAND UP ! Even if you feel small or overwhelmed, the time has come when IGNORANCE is no longer STRENGTH, War is no longer PEACE, and Freedom is no longer SLAVERY. I beg you to UNITE, and fight their divide and conquer scheme. When I say fight, I DO NOT mean any kind of violence, for all you TROLLS, RATS and SNITCHES.

PEACE, LOVE AND GOD BLESS !