The Attempted American Coup d'etat..

reply to post by The Sword

Most older folks I talk to, especially boomers, feel that when Kennedy was killed, America began its' slow death.

Well that's what happens when you take out the man who wants the position because he wants to better the world, and replace him with the one who wants to better his own status.

reply to post by Observor


FDR had FOUR terms in office -- Term Limits were NOT in place until the 22nd Amendment made in 1951

There was INDEED a real desire by corporate fascists to control or kill off FDR -- even though he saved Capitalism in the USA from itself.

A progressive taxation system is NECESSARY to keep a Democracy. Since taxes have been low in the USA -- the wealthy have been investing less and using the money to gain more profits in countries like China, where they can move the industry and sell us the stuff. Their Lobbyists have pushed Tariffs to as low as 2% in most industries.

The Koch Brothers, Chase, and Walmart kids have Billions of Dollars to play with to influence politics. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled that "money = free speech" -- there is NO POSSIBLE WAY our elections can not be manipulated. Further growth of Fascism is guaranteed unless there is a dramatic change in how we elect politicians and force money out of the system.



The Idle rich are always the problem. They are the reason we have wars, they are the reason we have people at each others throats. You and I and our friends in China don't need the nuclear weapons and air craft carriers -- but the Robber Barons need them to keep us scared.

reply to post by Observor


Your point about the "attempted Coup" is making a lot of assumptions that do NOT reflect what we are talking about.

General Smedley Butler was contacted by a group of Wall Street tycoons to use the "Bonus Army" -- a large group of disgruntled war vets who marched on Washington after WW I because the rich bastards who put them there didn't want to pay their back wages.

The thought was, that under cover of "another protest", that the Robber Barons could merely replace all the security with their own -- and FDR would merely be a figurehead who did their bidding.

Smedly Butler, rather than round up an army, privately went to FDR and told him about the plot. How could FDR act on such a 2nd hand heresy? I'm sure that FDR believed him and was well aware of the pro-German sentiment amongst tycoons like Ford and Standard Oil and the like.

>> There isn't much PROOF, other than the credibility of the most decorated military officer in US history -- but it has long bothered me, as I grew to understand more and more how Corporations and Banks run our government -- why the US was not on the side of Nazis Germany nor how we ever got FDR's reforms implemented.

.... it was one brief time in a LONG history of robber barons stepping on the working guy in our history. The concept that "Capitalism brings prosperity" and rising tides lift all boats -- comes from this golden age RIGHT AFTER America introduced it's most Socialist policies.

About 50 years after we kicked out the British Royals and about 50 years after FDR -- those are the moments in time when America did not suck. Every other time, it's been Rich guys calling the shots and starting bogus wars for profit and forcing the costs on the working man.

>> It's time for a LOT OF PEOPLE to re-avaluate what they THINK they know about US and world history.
The most important book you should read is; "War is a Racket."

Originally posted by masqua
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

 

The 5 causes of the Great Depression:

1. Stock Market Crash of 1929
2. Bank Failures
3. Reduction in Purchasing Across the Board
4. American Economic Policy with Europe
5. Drought Conditions

americanhistory.about.com...

Some of these sound eerily familiar, don't you think?

The Stock Market took a huge hit over the past few years and is still stumbling through the financial quagmire.

Bank Failures? Check.

Reduction in Purchasing Power Across the Board? Yup, the USD is not what it was.

Economic Policy with Europe? Well, now it's China and the notorious Trade Imbalance.

Drought? Erm... well... it has been a rather serious heat dome over much of North America. A dust bowl it isn't quite yet, but those dust storms into Phoenix kinda makes me think.

I'd say conditions are similar to a degree and, if you'd like to extrapolate 500,000 angry vets backed by big business to the present Tea Party and their disgust with the status quo, there might be some tentative comparisons made.

Those that refuse to learn from history are bound to repeat it.

edit on 4/8/11 by masqua because: spllng

>> This is a widespread problem we have in this country today -- looking at the symptoms and blaming them for the disease.

The REASON we had our recent financial crash and the previous Great Depression (and there were others previous) can be chalked up to two major failings; "Deregulation of Business" and "Income Disparity".

The Dust Bowl can easily be blamed on over-farming and businesses not re-investing and rotating their crops -- the depleted soil with a bit of a drought caused massive erosion -- and then the "disaster" is looked at as if it were something that could not be prevented -- like the flooding of New Orleans, it was about Neglect.

The next Nuclear disaster or Grid outage is ALSO preventable, but companies look at preventive measures as reductions in profit. Since we only look at the next quarter in America -- all problems get pushed into the future. No governor wants to repair bridges or gas lines. No CEO wants to re-invest in infrastructure if the stockholders have a bad quarter.

"DeRegulation" this time, really only affected the top companies. Oxley Sarbanes -- which is a mess -- actually helps large companies because only a huge outfit can deal with the reporting requirements. And it isn't an accident it did NOTHING to stop the economic disaster in 2008.

The Economic Disaster in 2008 was ALLOWED to happen by ending the Glass/Stegal act which was put in place after the Great Depression to stop banks from speculating. Without it in place, Mortgage Companies took mortgages they KNEW were risky, and bundled them with insurance. Then, with a little extra cash for consulting going to the ratings agencies, Moody's, Hoovers and S&P were happy to rate these Credit Default Obligations and AAA. The banks could then treat them as deposits (assets) and loan out 10X as much for another financial institution to use to speculate with.

The MEDIA reported that it was problems with Fannie Mae and poor people who shouldn't have gotten loans. This travesty, however, only accounted for about $65 Billion. AIG was using that PMI that SHOULD have covered any loan defaults, by jumping in with the Credit Default Swaps and other speculation -- so the money wasn't there. That's why they HAD to be bailed out.

Most of the people who defaulted on their loans COULD Have had lower-interest loans, but they were bamboozled. The Mortgage Banks bought these bad loans from smaller agencies who had no reporting requirements -- they knew all along what risks they were taking but the criminal interest rates were too good to pass up.

The MEDIA did not report that the REAL economic crisis was over $1.4 Quadrillion -- yeah, that is not a typo. The "imaginary money" that the TARP was trying to support was all these Swaps in an unregulated market -- and just the principle coming due would have shut down the entire Casino (what I like to call Wall Street).

The problem was entirely created with the banks and Wall Street and it was reckless greed and profit-taking.


>>> Concentration of Wealth
You cannot have Capitalism, much less a Democracy, when 4,000 people have about 40% of all the wealth.
But the "economic and practical problem" -- is that if the Government isn't actively working to reduce too much money in too few hands -- the economic system breaks down. Businesses and Stocks always seek the highest return -- and the jet set are used to a 10-15% growth (at the least) -- and that is just not sustainable.

Not EVERYONE can keep winning, year over year and a 10% rate. The population cannot keep growing that fast and the number of Undeveloped nations to exploit has dwindled. So there has to be winners and losers.

The last big target to profit from is government and Social Security.

And the practical issue; without the Middle Class growing in wealth -- there is RELATIVE to the amounts of wealth of the Capitalists -- less and less REASON to even bother selling goods and services to the middle class. Swapping bits of paper on Wall Street, is much more profitable than selling you or I a car even IF we opt for a Lease which makes them more revenue. When fantasy transactions are valued at a higher rate that production, labor, or ideas -- the economic system WILL collapse.


>> I can understand the "smaller government" people -- but what they REALLY are annoyed by is interference in SMALL business and the "pretend" help they get. Government is not working for the people because it has been corrupted and in the service of the large corporations who PREACH that Government is the problem. It's merely a proxy for their own will. The "liberal media" meanwhile, is mostly driven by the same corporations who get us into wars so they can profit.

Socialism, is really the only way to preserve a Democracy and representative government -- the more and more I look at the dynamics of what is killing America and the inability to solve ANY problems -- the more and more I realize that corporations must be limited in scope, and Multinationals considered collusion that cannot be permitted.

We used to understand that "Government is us" and the government we know now that limits liability to drug companies is not OUR government.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
reply to post by Observor

 

FDR had FOUR terms in office -- Term Limits were NOT in place until the 22nd Amendment made in 1951

Thanks for the info, didn't know that.

There was INDEED a real desire by corporate fascists to control or kill off FDR -- even though he saved Capitalism in the USA from itself.

Don't know about what desires who had at that point of time, but those who attempt a coup against the system rather than an assassination when they want to get rid of one individual are real nut cases. I doubt the alleged plotters were nut cases.

A progressive taxation system is NECESSARY to keep a Democracy.

No, it is not necessary to maintain a democracy, but in a democracy it tends to become that way. Very few mind someone else paying the cost of governance and a majority will always vote a minority to foot the bill, if they can manage it. Hence in a democracy with vast differences in income and wealth most people will vote in politicians who promise to tax the rich.

Since taxes have been low in the USA -- the wealthy have been investing less and using the money to gain more profits in countries like China, where they can move the industry and sell us the stuff. Their Lobbyists have pushed Tariffs to as low as 2% in most industries.

They are motivated by the same thing as everyone else, self-interest.

The Koch Brothers, Chase, and Walmart kids have Billions of Dollars to play with to influence politics. Now that the Supreme Court has ruled that "money = free speech" -- there is NO POSSIBLE WAY our elections can not be manipulated. Further growth of Fascism is guaranteed unless there is a dramatic change in how we elect politicians and force money out of the system.

Care to explain how money power is manipulating the elections? Also how you expect the "dramatic change" to happen?

The Idle rich are always the problem. They are the reason we have wars, they are the reason we have people at each others throats. You and I and our friends in China don't need the nuclear weapons and air craft carriers -- but the Robber Barons need them to keep us scared.

So your propose to abolish the idle rich? How?

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
>> There isn't much PROOF, other than the credibility of the most decorated military officer in US history -- but it has long bothered me, as I grew to understand more and more how Corporations and Banks run our government -- why the US was not on the side of Nazis Germany nor how we ever got FDR's reforms implemented.

What conclusion did you draw from your musings? That FDR was a superman who singlehandedly fought the "robber barons" and their designs and escaped without a scratch? Makes for a nice movie script, but not much sense in reality.

.... it was one brief time in a LONG history of robber barons stepping on the working guy in our history. The concept that "Capitalism brings prosperity" and rising tides lift all boats -- comes from this golden age RIGHT AFTER America introduced it's most Socialist policies.

Again you should ask yourself, why the "robber barons" let such ghastly thing happen

Originally posted by Observor

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
>> There isn't much PROOF, other than the credibility of the most decorated military officer in US history -- but it has long bothered me, as I grew to understand more and more how Corporations and Banks run our government -- why the US was not on the side of Nazis Germany nor how we ever got FDR's reforms implemented.

What conclusion did you draw from your musings? That FDR was a superman who singlehandedly fought the "robber barons" and their designs and escaped without a scratch? Makes for a nice movie script, but not much sense in reality.

.... it was one brief time in a LONG history of robber barons stepping on the working guy in our history. The concept that "Capitalism brings prosperity" and rising tides lift all boats -- comes from this golden age RIGHT AFTER America introduced it's most Socialist policies.

Again you should ask yourself, why the "robber barons" let such ghastly thing happen

>> The ONLY explanation I have yet come across for HOW FDR could be a "superman and change the course of history" -- is that the Robber Barons were caught in the act and FDR had little to lose. If they were going to stage a coup -- and basically if he didn't act, he'd be in a puppet government or dead -- then it was an all or nothing scenario.

FDR was not the egalitarian "socialist" when he came into office. He was a rich man who was politically connected. After he tried the changes the Robber Barons wanted -- the economy was still in a free-fall slide.

After the "planning" for an attempted coup -- he had the Robber Barons in a "support me or be hung for treason" situation.

>> I know that it's not a huge amount of evidence, but I cannot figure out any other way that the USA did the right thing in WW II. Not since the war for Independence has this country EVER not been in a war for empire -- every war but WW II and the war for Independence was based on a False Flag and was for robber baron profits.

Before the USA went against Germany -- most of the country was against foreign intervention -- WW I left Germany in a shambles and solved nothing and cost greatly -- the economy was in the toilet BECAUSE of expenses on wars. Other than "stimulating" the economy -- every state that had MORE war production in the USA had a slower growing economy than the ones that didn't (if you NEED it, I can maybe digg up the stats that cover that exact bit of history).

The Conservative half of the country was Pro Germany and Wall Street was pretty firmly for fascism. These laws protecting workers, and keeping kids from sweat shops -- those were fought for against the wishes of Wall Street.

And another myth -- Henry Ford DID NOT pay his workers enough to buy his own cars out of the goodness of his heart -- the "assembly line" was a discovery taken from Meat Packing plants. Henry Ford was forced to raise wages after a lawsuit from Chrysler -- I forget all the details.

>> By the way, Henry Ford used to have a picture of Hitler on his office wall -- he was a big fan. I also knew one of his kids -- and he actually hated his father. Although his son was kind of a decent guy -- he was a racist prick and hated black people.


>> So YOU find some reason to explain how America got into WW II against the fascist and implemented Socialist policies that every Patriot to this day lauds as "the American Dream." Equal Protection, Worker Safety, Minimum Wage, a Safety Net -- every damn thing that is worth a crap about this nation pretty much fell into our laps right around WW II.

And ever since then, the Wall Street tycoons and the Bush crime family have been working in earnest to undo everything good about this nation.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I just finished reading the pdf www.humanresonance.org...
Wow, what a page turner, very informative and mind expanding.
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reply to post by rbrtj


I appreciate the message you're trying to send... but yeah, please don't spam the thread.

I'm sure the other posters you've spammed in those other threads don't appreciate it much as well. Just saying..

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
After the "planning" for an attempted coup -- he had the Robber Barons in a "support me or be hung for treason" situation.

That is funny because not a single person was even prosecuted for the "attempted coup". How exactly is that sending a message "support me or be hung for treason"?

If anything, the behaviour of FDR after the "attempted coup" was "discovered", should have emboldened the plotters and they should have attempted getting him assassinated. That no such thing happened is strong evidence that there never was any "attempted coup" in the first place.

Originally posted by Observor

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
After the "planning" for an attempted coup -- he had the Robber Barons in a "support me or be hung for treason" situation.

That is funny because not a single person was even prosecuted for the "attempted coup". How exactly is that sending a message "support me or be hung for treason"?

If anything, the behaviour of FDR after the "attempted coup" was "discovered", should have emboldened the plotters and they should have attempted getting him assassinated. That no such thing happened is strong evidence that there never was any "attempted coup" in the first place.

You didn't READ what I said; Smedley Butler came to FDR -- according to Smedley Butler, and TOLD him that certain wealthy and powerful people had asked him to gather troops who would be loyal to him and march on Washington (a second time). They would then install people loyal to them and FDR would NOT BE DEAD -- but would be a puppet.

There is NO PROOF, other than Smedley Butler's word -- but, that to me is worth a thousand crooks on Wall Street. Also, it explains a lot.

FDR was no damned saint -- he hated the Japanese and he was a rich boy insider. HE just pissed off the wrong people who wanted to side with Germany and did NOT want his Socialist Reforms. How he managed to move the country against Nazi Germany and put his checks and balances on Wall Street has always mystified me - but if he had evidence of a Coup that he held onto -- then it explains that he had the Economic Royalists by the short hairs.

>> Since FDR got what he wanted, and America was rescued from the Fascists -- it was a happy ending. If FDR had not bitten the rich hand that fed him, the USA had not prevailed against Germany, and Socialism had not been implemented to fix our economy -- the 20th Century would NOT be one of an American success story -- we'd have been like the USSR after the Soviet Union collapsed -- run by small fiefdoms of organized crimes, CIA insiders and foreign interests.

Well done for bringing this little bit of history up again. People need reminding of this, especially as many of those conspirators, both powerful families, banks and corporations, are still running the whole show to this day.

That rather begs the question, did they in fact lose? I think we all know the answer to that one.

reply to post by Britguy

Well done for bringing this little bit of history up again. People need reminding of this

Agreed, and I really do think that Smedley Butler in particular really is, in my opinion, someone that others really should know more about today. A lot more.

I just want to pass along the most recent finds that might add to this thread ..Peter Dale Scotts article was a good read ..I am now listening to the Guns and Butter podcast now ..I am sure there will be bits of info in it ....peace Guns and Butter
"How the Failure to Identify, Prosecute and Convict President Kennedy's Assassins Has Let to Today's Crisis of Democracy" with Joan Mellen.
www.kpfa.org...

The Doomsday Project and Deep Events: JFK, Watergate, Iran-Contra, and 9/11 www.globalresearch.ca...

I had not heard of Mae Brussell so for me its another picture that has small minutes of the back ground to the whole ...peace

one more bit to add to the whole ...Robert DeFord was a research associate of Mae Brussell, the iconic JFK researcher who hosted a radio program examining a range of subjects from 1971 until her death in 1988. DeFord joins us today to discuss his memories of Mae Brussell, her life and her remarkable legacy of research www.corbettreport.com...

The latest audio bit in the whole mess .... "Sirhan Sirhan and the Assassination of RFK" with Lawrence Teeter. Presentation to the press by Sirhan Sirhan's attorney, Lawrence Teeter, (now deceased) at the Coalition on Political Assassinations conference on the 35th anniversary of that assassination, June 2003. William Pepper is currently representing Sirhan. www.kpfa.org... If you haven't contemplated these little surtitles on the story then maybe its time to consider the small insignificance's to let go of the doctrine of the official story ...peace