51% of americans don't pay taxes - debunked?

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by no time

 

....Show me ONE individual in the actual top 10% of income earners in the united states that is no longer rich and I will submit.

Actually he was a Canadian...

I really have to write up the true story and post it. A self-made Canadian I once worked for managed to royally tick off not only the British Royal Family but the Royal family of Netherlands over a couple of oil company deals.

They colluded to wipe him off the map, although they did not quite succeed in completely bankrupting him.

So yeah, not all of the wealthy are "Insiders" and belong to the "club" and if they get in the way they are "Fair Game" The Canadian is not the only one.

I talked to a guy who worked for a small grain trader. Cargill intentionally wiped them off the map.

There is this humorously told story too: Five Minutes With John Munsell & A Trip To The Woodshed With The USDA.

.....An inspector, armed with many official looking pieces of paper, looked Big John in the eye and said, “Assume the position!”

John was frisked. The authorities stopped just short of a full body cavity search. It was a very thorough exam.

“Wait,” protested Big John. “The meat came in with bad stuff already on it. I didn’t put it there. Go after the people who sent it to me!”

“Obviously you don’t understand the way we do things around here,” chuckled the inspector who was amused by Big John’s apparent naivety....

Eh, i was wrong and I admit it, it seems the super rich are thrown in with the moderately wealthy in the top 10% whereas I believe most of my comments I am talking about the super wealthy, and apparently there doesn't seem to be allot of information about the super wealthy in this country, whodathunkit. I do agree that 300,000 - 400,000 per year is not wealthy beyond being easily destroyed.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by no time

 

This is exactly why we have this problem. Your telling me that giving me an AVERAGE, including ALL THE TAXES PAID, is an accurate representation of the data. Yes, and No.

This article should show you NOTHING but how disproportionate the income for that 29% is compared to the rest of us. Think about it. I know I can't be the only one that sees this.

I did not feel like scrounging around for the actual chart.

30.06% or about one third of the taxes are paid by those FAMILIES (possible two incomes) making less than $113,800.. (That is two middle class professionals.) Accountants, computer types, QC engineers....

Here is the break down of income and percent TAXES paid:

Top 50% - $33,048 (and up) pay 97.30% of the taxes

Top 25% - $67,280 (and up) pay 86.34 % of the taxes

Top 10% - $113,799 (and up) pay 69.94 % of the taxes

Bottom 50% less than $33,048 pay 2.7 % of the taxes
modified chart from ntu.org...

Thanks for that. they really need to add more groups to this. I don't for a second believe that the mean line for the top 1% is $360,000. If that is the case they need to break this down even further, .75%, .5%, .25%.

It has to be a misrepresentation of the data, as this would have you believe that things are pretty equal. Please view my link, these are the people I am talking about.

LINKY

I don't pay income tax because i don't have any income. I live on a disablity pension that is not taxable.

But i pay sales tax, gas tax and i also pay taxes for companies that pass there tax burden down to the people that buy there products.

The government wants to tax the oil companies but the oil companies will not pay the tax they will just raise the cost of there products so WE will pay the TAX.

Then you will have state gas taxes, federal gas taxes and hidden federal gas taxes.
$8.00 a gal gas anyone.

Companies outside of the US(china) don't pay taxes on what they make and sell in the US. so in many cases you are only hurting jobs in the US if you only tax US companies.

reply to post by no time

It has to be a misrepresentation of the data, as this would have you believe that things are pretty equal. Please view my link, these are the people I am talking about.

The chart I looked at and showed was broken into quartiles (25%)

This is the statistic that frosts my tail:
I wrote this comment for another thread but here it is again since it shows exactly the point you are trying to get across:


....Trick Pony indeed.

More like a frecken' TROJAN HORSE!

Unfortunately the scam is too sophisticated and convoluted for most people to understand. I am still trying to disentangle it myself.

I am going to start with the results because it shows just how bad off we really are.

One of the major principles taught to Quality Engineers is the Pareto Principle - The 80-20 Rule - because it holds true for so many aspects of life. In 1906 an Italian economist, Vilfredo Pareto, discovered that 20% of the Italian population owned 80% of the nation’s wealth. Further studies revealed that The Pareto Principle, as it became known, affects us all in every aspect of life.

Does the Pareto Principle still hold true in the USA???

I normally treat Alex Jones as if he had the plague but this article by "Michael??" that he stole from TheEconomicCollapseBlog.com answers my above question. - (Some one really did their homework.)

Will The Banksters And The Corpocracy Eventually Own It All? 29 Statistics About Extreme Income Inequality In America That Will Blow Your Mind

...Over the past several decades, those with huge amounts of money and power have been busy rigging the game so that the rest of the money and power slowly but surely funnels into their hands.... Today, the big banks, the big corporations and the federal government are all in bed with one another and it is average Americans that always lose out.....

[THIS IS THE SIGNIFICANT STATISTIC: cv]
#1 In the United States today, the richest one percent of all Americans have a greater net worth than the bottom 90 percent combined.....

WHOA, Wait a Second 1% of the population controls over 90% of the wealth ???? What ever happen to the natural distribution of 20% controlling 80% 0f the wealth???

Given that the objective of the scam is to move as much of the wealth of the USA from the people into the hands of the World Power Mongers, it looks like they have done a bang up job of it!

EXPLANATION

The Federal Reserve and Government Accounts (such as Social Security) account for 40.6% of the 14 trillion dollar debt.

Those pretty green slips of paper in your wallet commonly known as U.S. dollars are Federal Reserve Notes. Bank scrip. The Fed can print as much of it as it wants or needs to. With this in mind, consider that fully eighty percent (80%) of U.S. Treasuries (U.S. government debt) sold in 2009 were bought by the Fed because there were no other willing buyers. factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com...

However the Federal Reserve doesn't use real money (wealth) to BUY US debt. They create "money" out of thin air and then tell the tax payer that we OWE them that money they just created plus interest! It is the largest FRAUD/SCAM in the world! SEE: www.bigeye.com...


When the Bernanke doubled the US money supply it was done by banks LENDING the new money into the system. That is how "new money" is created in a fiat money system.

Of course those in the know were not about to get "sheared" along with the sheeple so when Nixon took the USA off the gold standard they made sure their wages kept up with inflation unlike the poor smucks in the factories and offices. In 1976 A typical American CEO earned 36 times as much as the average worker. By 2008 the average CEO pay increased to 369 times that of the average worker.

From the beginning of 1964 ($54 billion) to the end of 2010 the bankers have made $1961.967 billion dollars in fiat currency! That is the amount they increased the money supply

That is a factor of 36! ($1962/$54=36) The minimum wage in 1964 was $1.15. Is the minimum wage now $41.78???? ($1.15X36) Or is it about one tenth of that? ($6.55) To add insult to injury the "progressive tax rates" takes a much larger chunk out of my vastly diminished wage.

But it doesn't end there. There are the invisible taxes on everything we buy. This is the hidden tax that is so difficult to figure out.

"A third of the cost of a gallon of gas is tax, half the cost of a pack of cigarettes and last I checked (20 years ago), there were 109 different taxes on a loaf of bread before you paid sales tax on the loaf and carried it home.' - JB Williams

"If people need any more concrete explanation of this, start with the staff of life, a loaf of bread. The simplest thing; the poorest man must have it. Well, there are 151 taxes now in the price of a loaf of bread — it accounts for more than half the cost of a loaf of bread. It begins with the first tax, on the farmer that raised the wheat..." - President Ronald Reagan

Originally posted by boncho
Not sure how people having more or less assets relates to fairness.

In reality, I work 60-70 hour weeks usually. Would it be fair to me if someone working half those hours were paid the same, had the same assets, etc.

So work is work then?
Are you a heart surgeon or a pencil pusher?

I know lots of people that work 50 hours a week doing very little. I know some people that work a little less doing much more important work.
Would it be fair for you to be paid the same to rake asphalt for 40 hours as the guy who fixes hearts for 40 hours?

reply to post by no time

...I do agree that 300,000 - 400,000 per year is not wealthy beyond being easily destroyed.

THAT is the really frightening part.

The international Cartels are literally carving out Economic Fiefdoms, not in a single country but in the entire world. It used to be a widow could pick up some money babysitting or cleaning houses. Now those niches have been taken over by national "chains" like Merry Maids or Primrose Schools. Regulations, permits, insurance etc make it close to impossible for the naive sole proprietor to have a chance at starting a business.

On top of that I have seen time and time again chains move in next to a Mom & Pop, drop the prices to below cost until the smaller competitor closes its door. Once the competitor is gone the prices are jacked up higher than what the Mom & pop would charge.

FOOD
This article goes on for 27 pages detailing the concentration of control of our food supply.
Here are some tidbits.

3 Companies Control 90% of the Beef Industry - JBS Swift, Tyson, Cargill.

4 Companies Control 66% of the Pork Industry. Smithfield, Tyson, Cargill and JBS Swift

Overall:
4 companies control 83% of Beef Processing; 4 companies control 66% of Pork Processing and 4 companies control 58% of broiler Chicken Production and Processing.

In the dairy industry, 3 dominant players control most of the dairy products we consume.

Farmers of America: ...DFA then works in tandem with the likes of Dean Foods to manipulate milk prices to be low for farmers while price-gouging consumers. These anti-competitive practices have been the subject of a two-year investigation by the Department of Justice and DFA has been fined $12 million for price manipulation by the Commodities Future Trading Commission.

3 Companies Control 90% Corn Market.
Only three companies -Archer Daniels Midland, Bunge andCargill - control 90% of the global grain trade . This means farmers in Iowa and elsewhere have had lessand less options for selling their grain. These companies can also manipulate the price of corn on theChicago Board of Trade.

In 1866, 1,186 varieties of fruits and vegetables were produced in California. Today, California's farms
produce only 350 commercial crops.
www.scribd.com...

FINANCIAL:

An analysis of the 2007 financial markets of 48 countries shows the world's finances are in the hands of a few mutual funds, banks, and corporations. This is the first report of global concentration of financial power ..www.insidescience.org...

How the USA lost her Fortune 500 companies like Gillette.

January 29, 1989
...Of mergers and acquisitions each costing $1 million or more, there were just 10 in 1970; in 1980, there were 94; in 1986, there were 346. A third of such deals in the 1980's were hostile. The 1980's also saw a wave of giant leveraged buyouts. Mergers, acquisitions and L.B.O.'s, which had accounted for less than 5 percent of the profits of Wall Street brokerage houses in 1978, ballooned into an estimated 50 percent of profits by 1988...

THROUGH ALL THIS, THE HISTORIC RELATIONSHIP between product and paper has been turned upside down. Investment bankers no longer think of themselves as working for the corporations with which they do business. These days, corporations seem to exist for the investment bankers....

In fact, investment banks are replacing the publicly held industrial corporations as the largest and most powerful economic institutions in America....

THERE ARE SIGNS THAT A VICIOUS spiral has begun, as each corporate player seeks to improve its standard of living at the expense of another's. Corporate raiders transfer to themselves, and other shareholders, part of the income of employees by forcing the latter to agree to lower wages. January 29, 1989 www.nytimes.com...]New York Times

Statistics (courtesy of Bridgewater) showed in 1990, before WTO was ratified, Foreign ownership of U.S. assets amounted to 33% of U.S. GDP. By 2002 this had increased to over 70% of U.S. GDP. www.fame.org...

Whether you blame the leveraged buyout feeding frenzies of the 80's or the World Trade Organization “Free Trade” agreement of the 90's the result is the same America has been quietly sold off piece by piece. This is a sampling of the industries with over 50% foreign ownership, according to Source Watch www.sourcewatch.org...

* Sound recording industries - 97%
* Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage - 79%
* Motion picture and sound recording industries - 75%
* Metal ore mining - 65%
* Wineries and distilleries - 64%
* Database, directory, Book and other publishers - 63%
* Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product - 62%
* Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment - 57%
* Rubber product - 53%
* Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing - 53%
* Plastics and rubber products manufacturing - 52%
* Other insurance related activities - 51%
* Boiler, tank, and shipping container - 50%
* Glass and glass product - 48%
* Coal mining – 48%

EVEN OUR HIGHWAYS ARE NOT SAFE!
A real eye opener isn't it. But it gets worse. The Department of Homeland Security says 80% of our ports are operated by Foreigners and they are buying and running US bridges, toll roads and water authorities. So when the "town" put a meter on the well YOU had dug there is a chance the "Tax" is going off shore!!! www.alabamaeagle.org...

Up for grabs at the negotiating table [WTO] is worldwide privatization and deregulation of public energy and water utilities, postal services, higher education and state alcohol distribution controls; a new right for foreign firms to obtain U.S. Small Business Administration loans; elimination of a list of specific U.S. state laws about land use, professional licensing and consumer protections, and extreme deregulation of private-sector service industries such as insurance, banking, mutual funds and securities. www.commondreams.org...

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Jezus

 

It is simply a fundamental part of Capitalism.

It is NOT Capitalism!

Let's be VERY clear. As usual the elite are playing mind games with us. To start with Their "Free Market" is NOT a real free Market, where there is a FREE (willing) exchange of products, services and labor.

If my neighbors and I meet at the weekly market and swap eggs for milk or veggies or some lamb chops THAT is an actual FREE market. I set the value of my lamb chops, Dale sets the value on his eggs, Mike sets the value on his veggies and Cindy set the value on her beef. We either agree to the swaps or we do not. (These are real products and people BTW)

In the Elite "Free Market" we have the central BANKS setting currency exchange rates and corporations setting wage scales in one country and prices in another. There is NOTHING "free" about that situation at all.

I agree. Our capitalism is not based on the free market but freedom of power.

And I agree with the undeniable fact that our economic system is corrupted by "The elite" in both the Fed. and SIFIs (structurally-important financial institutions).

However, I don't believe it is necessary to try to regulate this manipulation if we focus on real physical variables.

"The Rich" always play games, taking massive risks with society, and leveraging our infrastructure. This is what happens in capitalism.

So we can allow them to play the "get rich" game as long we tax corporate profits enough to prevent the destruction of the environment and the enslavement of the masses.

We can play the capitalism game without allowing "the rich" to completely destroy society but we have to focus on the real physical variables. (food, water, air, land, and other natural resources).

51% of the people in America leave here illegally, and therefor don't pay takes, or contribute to our economy. They are why it's all messed up. Don't get me wrong my grandparents & great grandparents came here from sicily and other regions, but they came here and obtained citizenship, and have helped pay the taxes that built this country.

reply to post by no time


That is about Federal Taxes.

We all (kind of) pay Income Tax to the State.

Taxation Clarity for the Sheeple.

I am speaking of Federal Taxes ONLY. ALL Federal Taxes, not just income tax, but Social Security, Fuel Tax, Medicare Tax, whatever Federal Tax.

Lets start off with who you pay the taxes to. ALL Federal Taxes go to the US Treasury Department. The Treasury dumps ALL the money collected into one big pot and Pays it’s debt first with the monies collected, any monies left over go to funding. Since the United States owes so much money we can only pay the interest on the loan and no principle. There never is any money left over for funding because we can never make the full payment, which also compounds the interest on the loan. This is by design.

Who holds the debt of the United States, it is the Federal Reserve Bank. Each “dollar” printed by the Federal Reserve is a promissory note with interest attached. So, with every dollar placed into circulation we all ready owe interest.

Look at this scheme closer. If we could gather every dollar in circulation, we still could not pay off the debt, the interest attached to each dollar would still be owed but there would be no dollars left to pay it. This is by design also.

Federal Taxation is ONLY a method of removing dollars from circulation. It has nothing to do with funding. If taxation was directly tied to funding you would pay your taxes to the department that was responsible for that tax. Social Security Taxes would be paid to Social Security Dept., Fuel and Road Taxes would go directly to the Transportation Dept. and so on.

As long as the Federal Reserve is in charge of printing the “Dollar” the US government could tax each of us and every business at 100% and we still could never pay off the debt. This is by design as well.

So since taxation could NEVER provide enough money to pay the obligations of the United States, What is it’s real purpose ?

Glad you asked.

Printing money out of thin air with no asset to back it creates two things inflation and devaluation. In order to combat these economy killers we use techniques of economic control one of these techniques is called Taxation.

Taxation has the ability to remove a certain amount of dollars from circulation, which helps to deter inflation and devaluation. Every “Dollar” created out of thin air devalues the “Dollars” already in circulation, if at the same time we could remove a “Dollar” from circulation we would have the ability to control devaluation of the dollars already in circulation.

So, What have we learned about this Ponzie Scheme we call the US Economy.

100% of all Federal Taxes go to the Federal Reserve Bank though loan interest payments.

Funding is provided by the creation of new dollars which increases the national debt to the Federal Reserve Bank.

As long as the United States allows the Federal Reserve Bank to control the money supply and create dollars, we will NEVER get out of debt. NEVER !

This is why our Founders charged Congress with the coinage of money and required that money to be Gold or Silver.

So the next time some idiot says “We should go to the “Fair Tax”” remember our economic problems have nothing to do with taxation and even 100% taxation could not save us from economic destruction.
Taxation is and only can be a “relief value” for the economy under the system we find ourselves in today.

The only cure for our economic problems is for Congress to take back the control of the money supply and start coinage of money, Gold and Silver.

reply to post by Jezus

So we can allow them to play the "get rich" game as long we tax corporate profits enough to prevent the destruction of the environment and the enslavement of the masses....

Taxing BIG corporations is IMPOSSIBLE.

I really really wish people would get that fact though their heads. If the Feds were to place an addition tax on a business, the big corporations would just raise their prices. Therefore it is a tax on ALL consumers especially those on fixed incomes.

"A third of the cost of a gallon of gas is tax, half the cost of a pack of cigarettes and last I checked (20 years ago), there were 109 different taxes on a loaf of bread before you paid sales tax on the loaf and carried it home.' - JB Williams

It is always the little guy that really gets hit with taxes, small businessman and consumer alike.


I would prefer we ENFORCE the anti-monopoly and anti -monspony laws like the 1890 Sherman Antitrust Act and 1921 Packers and Stockyards Act.

This information about food illustrates how the cartels work.

...Economists argue we need not be concerned about becoming dependent upon the rest of the world for our food. We will be even better fed at a lower cost, they say...

Al Gore, while awarding prizes to "Future Farmers of America" in 2006, let it slip that he agrees:

And so we have a long term US farm policy - Annihilation of US farmers - the ones who grow 25% of the world food supply...

Economic Policy Institute: Exported to Death

In the two decades from 1978 to 1997, real grain prices were slashed in half. Then, in 1998, prices fell an additional 10-20%, pushing many family farmers to the brink of bankruptcy.1 - (Footnote 1. Real corn prices declined from $5.28 per bushel in 1978 to $2.65 in 1997, then to 2.36 in 1998. Real wheat prices declined from $7.08 per bushel in 1978 to $3.87 in 1997, then to $3.01 in 1998.)

...Corporate control is becoming much more concentrated both upstream and downstream from farmers...Recently, Cargill has proposed to purchase Continental’s grain storage unit, which would result in a single firm that would control more than one-third of U.S. grain exports...

The deal went through without a peep from the Department of Justice. Just as DOJ had no problems with the privately own Brazilian company JB swift (owned by the Batista family) buying up US beef production. Combining the number three, four and five beef packers in America will make JBS Swift the largest U.S. packer and assemble the top global capacity... The Australians also made a formal complaint to their government

Testimony before the House:

R-CALF USA Comments on Agriculture and Antitrust Enforcement Issues in Our 21st Century Economy

...the number of U.S. cattle operations has declined 40 percent since 1980, the size of the U.S. cattle herd is now the smallest since 1958.....

...fed cattle that have reached their optimal slaughter weight must be marketed within a narrow window of time (generally within about a two-week period); otherwise, the animals would degrade in quality and value....

In February 2006, all four major beef packers – Tyson, Cargill, Swift, and National – withdrew from the cash cattle market in the Southern Plains for an unprecedented period of two weeks. On February 13, 2006, market analysts reported that no cattle had sold in Kansas or Texas in the previous week.....
agriculture.house.gov...

Retail giants like Walmart grab an increasing share of any profits. The price a rancher gets for beef, adjusted for inflation, dropped from $1.97 to 93 cents per pound between 1980 and 2009.

...Congress tried to crack down with the 1921 Packers and Stockyards Act, which forbade packers from engaging in "unjust, unfair or discriminatory practices" against livestock sellers. At the time the law was passed, "it was viewed as providing the most complete oversight of any sector of the economy," says Neil Harl, an Iowa State University economist and lawyer who has studied it extensively. Yet the meatpackers' grip simply tightened, as they used "intense political pressure" to ward off the Agriculture Department regulators, says Harl. "Whether it was a Republican administration or a Democratic administration, there was not a lot of effort ... to implement the full measure."


....The "Big Five" meatpacking companies controlled 45 percent of the domestic cattle market by the early 1890s. Every Tuesday at 2 p.m., their representatives met in downtown Chicago to decide how many cattle each would bring to the marketplace. This illegal act of collusion -- which kept meat prices high by limiting supply -- was known as the Veeder Pool, because the meatpackers' attorney, Henry Veeder, kept records for the meetings and later testified about them in Congress.

The big meatpackers were mostly able to evade enforcement of the 1890 federal Sherman Antitrust Act. Whenever the pressure got too strong, the companies would play legal hide-and-seek, merging or dissolving to avoid prosecution. Even when trust-busting President Teddy Roosevelt took office, the companies retained their power. Upton Sinclair, a leading muckraker, described the power of the "Beef Trust" in his classic 1906 novel, The Jungle:

"... it wiped out thousands of businesses every year, it drove men to madness and suicide. It had forced the price of cattle so low as to destroy the stock-raising industry ... it had ruined butchers who refused to carry its products. It divided the country into districts, and fixed the price of meat in all of them ..."

r-calfusa.com...

I put together at least parts of the whole scheme in this THREAD Before you start flaming because of the title (I hoped it would make ATSers look at it) Notice WHO had the Presidency, and both House and Senate when the "Food Safety Modernization Act" passed in December 2010 The law contains:

SEC. 404. COMPLIANCE WITH INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS.
Nothing in this Act (or an amendment made by this Act) shall be construed in a manner inconsistent with the agreement establishing the World Trade Organization or any other treaty or international agreement to which the United States is a party.
www.fda.gov...

Clinton ratified WTO and the Obama Admin. gave them FULL control of our food supply!!!

The first try at this bill was in 2005 during Bush, just after WTO/FAO/OIE completed their "Guide to Good Farming Practices" but never passed.

reply to post by no time



SALES TAX ANYONE?

PROPERTY TAX?

vehicle tax? we have that where I live in NC after.. registration and vehicle inspection fees

anyone who actually spouts the "half the people don't even pay taxes, yuk yuk der der" crap the MSM shovels are sheeple drones incapable of simple thought.

reply to post by Jezus

I agree. Our capitalism is not based on the free market but freedom of power.

You missed the point the USA has CORPORATISM, collusion between the bankers, Corporations and the government.

Capitalism is the privately owned means of production and and the freedom of competition on a fair playing field.

Their brand of "Capitalism" is regulations that prevent anyone else from competing against them, and loans comprising of wealth stolen from the the rest of America.

Small business, true capitalists, generally do not "QUALIFY" for bank loans and have to use savings or loans from family and friends. For example, my next door neighbor's business is financed by the neighbor down the street.

Originally posted by wardk28
I say it time and time again. We should convert to the Fair Tax. That way everyone pays federal taxes. 23% national sales tax on everything except essentials like food and utilities.

That is a terrible idea and demonstrates how people don't really think through things. A federal sales tax increasingly hurts earners, the less they make.

If a person making $100/day buys an item for $100 plus your 23% sales tax, that is 23% of their income for the day.

A person making $1,000/day buys the same item for $100 and pays the $23 in sales tax, that is 2.3$ of their income.

How is that a "fair" tax?

reply to post by ANNED


Don't forget all the taxes on your utility bill, Anned.

The number one reason America is failing is because people aren't organizing and demanding a fair economy. Most of us are sleep and too concerned with working and surviving.

If you want things to change, begin organizing meetings and gatherings where people are taught and awakened to what's really happening. Start grabbing people by their shirts and shaking them awake. Explain it to them in laymans terms so it doesn't go over their heads. Let them know that 99% of the populace are in the permanent bent over position.

Espunge yourself of this partisan crap most people subsribe too! Stop bickering and complaining about crumbs when the entire wedding cake is on the table! This is what the wealthy elite use to keep you blind and dumb. While you're mad because Hector snuck over from Mexico and his family is on welfare getting $4000 per year and just barely scraping by.....the Koch brothers are raping the country for millions. The politicians are stealing $40,000 instead of $4000! Yet, as a coward does...you look past the big guy and instead go pick on the little guy. Be a man/woman and go confront the big bully!!

When we wake the people up, then we can start shaping this country into something. When we cut out all of the corruption by holding representatives feet to the fire. By getting rid of people/businesses who contribute no real benefits to society.

That's something I want to address: Businesses and people who make a fortune off someone elses back. These people basically slick talk people into making them rich while they contribute NOTHING! This seems to be accepted and worshipped in this country.

In a twisted way, that's why I cheer for the people who aren't working. I cheer for the drug dealers who are making off the book money. THESE PEOPLE are the ones who actually are on the right path. Though society villianize them (I wonder why), they are unintentional fighters for freedom.

The biggest way to loosen the strangle hold wealthy elite have on society is to simply stop participating. Stop going to the voting booths. Stop buying things you don't need. Fall out of love with all the extra gadgets. When able a big bomb would be to stop WORKING. I really wish there were a way to organize all the normal people into a work strike which eventually transforms into a total stop of all working.

Imagine if even the police stopped? Everyone just stay home and take care of your family. Who's going to come throw people out of their homes?

This gives a idea for another thread: How To Expose Who the PTB are?

Originally posted by no time


Eh, i was wrong and I admit it, it seems the super rich are thrown in with the moderately wealthy in the top 10% whereas I believe most of my comments I am talking about the super wealthy, and apparently there doesn't seem to be allot of information about the super wealthy in this country, whodathunkit.

edit on 27-7-2011 by no time because: (no reason given)

I can provide you with some rather interesting information about the super wealthy. It comes straight from the IRS.

The TOP 400 EARNERS in our country have seen their wealth almost quadruple and their tax rate cut in half.

If this doesn't open peoples eyes about the REAL distribution of wealth in this country, then all is lost (seriously):




The image link is just for convenience. Here is the IRS Document which leads directly to the referenced document. The results are on page 10.

The REAL problem is that, even as the poor get poorer and therefore pay less and less in taxes, the rich are also getting richer while paying less and less in taxes.

If people do not acknowledge this fact, then there can be no real debate.

Some additional info on the right wing propaganda about who pays taxes, is that the bottom 50% of income earners are primarily retirees and students. They will spend most of their lives paying considerable taxes into the system.

What do people get back for their tax dollars paid to the fed? Most people get nothing for their money going to the fed.

If you don't conduct business across state and national borders, If you work locally and shop locally, then basically all of the fed tax you pay goes to subsidize corporations.

Corporations and other businesses who primarily conduct business across these borders should pay essentially the entire cost of the fed government.

If the average guy gets his house broken into, they don't call the feds, the call the local police. If a corporation gets something stolen most likely it happened while in transition across state lines.

If some corporation sells poison as baby food, local law enforcement can't do anything about it, it is a federal matter, as the person who made money off the deal could be anywhere.

Basically, working people are subsidizing corporate profits through their taxes.

The corporations should have to pay for federal government, and the cost of their goods and services should include the costs of government in protecting their business interests. Then it wouldn't be so easy for corporations to export our jobs overseas.

The current situation is that middle class fed taxes are being used to subsidize corporate profit, and the exportation of our jobs, and it has all been done under the con of the free market.

Currently, the bottom 99.999% of income earners pay far too much federal taxes, and the top .001% of income earners pay far too little federal taxes.

That is how the system was originally set up, when our economy worked effectively. Under the free market scam, we have been conned into handing over our nations wealth to International corporations that want to destroy our representative government, and turn us into their slaves. These ICs have no loyalty to the U.S., and especially not to the people of the U.S..

reply to post by no time


Good article showing that people in poverty today, have it much better than the rich people of 100 years ago.
When you have cable tv , dvd, xbox, ac, all apliances, etc within in your home, aptc, condo, etc, I dont think your doing too bad. What has happened, is that this country feels that they deserve something for nothing. When you have liberal politicians promising on captial hill to pay your mortgage payment and car payments, you start to build a mentality that you dont have to work. Everything will be provided.
Step back to the reconstruction era of this country, if we had that mentality then, this country would be as good as Ethiopia.
Nice article.


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The answer, for 2008, is more like 47%. It's an important point, but you shouldn't take it in isolation. The statistic is only for federal income taxes. As we all know, there are a lot more taxes than just federal income tax. State, property, sales, tolls, and transaction taxes also take their bite out of income.

Many critics have erroneously claimed that the Reagan and Bush tax cuts only benefited the wealthy. The truth is that ever since Reagan, the rich have borne an ever-increasing share of the tax burden while the poor have been removed entirely from the tax rolls, says Investor's Business Daily (IBD).

According to a study by the National Center for Policy Analysis:

From 1986 to 2004, the total share of the income tax burden paid by the top 1 percent of income earners grew by nearly half, from 25.8 percent to 36.9 percent.

Over that same time, the burden of the bottom 50 percent of earners was almost halved from 6.5 percent to 3.3 percent.

The Tax Foundation has noted that in 2000, a year before the first tax cuts under Bush, roughly 30 million tax returns had no income tax liability. Every dollar those earners made they kept.

By 2004, a year after the second round of cuts was passed, 43 million returns had no tax. It estimates that, in all, more than 25 million Americans have been wiped off the federal tax rolls just by President Bush.

Here's another way to look at it: (2008 figures)

The top 1% earned 20.70% of the income, but paid 38.02% of all income taxes.
The top 5% earned 34.73% of the income, but paid 58.72% of all income taxes.
The top 10% earned 45.77% of the income, but paid 69.94% of all income taxes.
The top 25% earned 67.38% of the income, but paid 86.34% of all income taxes.
The top 50% earned 87.25% of the income, but paid 97.30% of all income taxes.
The bottom 50% earned 12.75% of the income, but paid 2.59% of all income taxes

Now let’s put that in perspective. Who, exactly, is "rich"? You might be surprised.

The top 1% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $380,354.
The top 10% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $113,799.
The top 25% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $67,280.
The top 50% means your adjusted gross income is at or above $33,048.
The bottom 50% means your adjusted gross income is below $33,048.