The Holy Spirit is my Proof

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by pthena

 

I didn't say they deny Jesus Christ. I said they deny "the divinity" of Jesus Christ. Which they all do.

The antichrist denies the true humanity of Jesus, the antichrist does not deny the divinity of Jesus.

LOL, the anitchrist will sit in the temple, in the holy of holies and declare himself to be God. So you're saying the antichrist will claim Jesus is divine but then turn around and claim himself to be God?

"Jesus is God, no wait, I am God, worship me."

The antichrist will exhault himself above "everything called God". Above Jesus, above YHWH, above Allah, he will declare himself to be God, create a one world religion to worship himself, and erect an image by the help of the false prophet to have the world worship him or be killed. And the world will marvel after him and follow him as God.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So that's why I'm done talking to you, no more pearls.

I'm having a bit of a problem remembering what those pearls might be.
Do you think you could do a brief summary of those, like itemize them in a list or something?

So you can yet again completely distort what I say and believe? No thanks, that's why I said I'm done talking about that with you. Until you can demonstrate that you won't purposely straw man my posts.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

LOL, the anitchrist will sit in the temple, in the holy of holies and declare himself to be God. So you're saying the antichrist will claim Jesus is divine but then turn around and claim himself to be God?
"Jesus is God, no wait, I am God, worship me."
The antichrist will exhault himself above "everything called God". Above Jesus, above YHWH, above Allah, he will declare himself to be God, create a one world religion to worship himself, and erect an image by the help of the false prophet to have the world worship him or be killed. And the world will marvel after him and follow him as God

The word antichrist is not in the Book of Daniel, so is an interpretation, then included into the official philosophy in order to distract from the real antichrist which the creators of the philosophy are supporting.
The antichrist is something that has always been around. If an organization is made to support antichrist principles they would be of the antichrist spirit. I might call this organization the antichrist, but I don't mean it in a strictly literal sense.(meaning not in the way it is popularly viewed, as being a particular individual)
By what you were telling me, I can see how this fits together in the master plan of those creators. This philosophy effectively does the same sort of thing as the gnostics, but from a different angle. The goal of both is to separate what Jesus was, from what we are. A successful separation nullifies the concept of Jesus being the Second Adam.
Anyway, I don't pay that much attention to all the fictional stories in the philosophy you have been introduced to because it is all fiction and like I said, meant to distract the reader or listener, away from the real long time antichrist that has always been with us on this earth. All I can figure is that here were the Apostles working away preaching the Gospel and there were always people there to oppose them. John may have lumped all these people together in his own mind as being antichrist. Then he was forced to make those private thoughts public when something new arose, which was people seeming to believe in Jesus but a Jesus of their own invention. He had to be harsh, and then used the term to show how wrong he felt these people were.

Originally posted by Mividau
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I meant exacting judgment/destroying, not judging for condemnation or rewarding them.

Not all muslims are jihadists. But they are also the sons of Ishmale. If you already agree GOD will fullfill
his sacred promise to Isreal. Then you should also agree he will fullfill his promise to Ishmale.

God fulfilled His promise to Ishmael by giving the Law at Sinai to Moses. Ishmael was a picture of the promise of "bondage" because he was a child of the flesh, Isaac was a picture of the promise or covenant of faith through Christ because he was a child of the faith of Abraham. Paul points this out in Galatians 4:22-31

"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a free woman. 23. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the free woman was by promise. 24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bond woman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman."

God didn't even consider Ishmael a son of Abraham. Because when he instructed Abraham to take his son to the mountain to sacrifice him he called Isaac his "ONLY son" in Genesis 2:22.

"He said, “Take your son, your ONLY son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.”

GOD will take his choosen from all nations and tounges. Christian, Jewish, Muslim are all manmade
religions. GODs true religion is written in the hearts of man. As you have said those who he has called out.
GOD is not racist and loves all. Those who follow his will and not their own are choosen.

No one is claiming God is racist. But God has made atonement for sin through His Son and faith in Him and what He did. Christ said He alone is the "way, the truth, and the life" and also said "NO MAN goes to the Father" except through Him and Him alone. Anyone from any tribe and any nation can enjoy salvation through Christ, but no one can who reject the atonement Christ bought with His blood. Christ said whomever believed in Him has eternal life, but to him that believes no,t the wrath of God is upon them.

Not only this but all systems of man will be destroyed. They are not GODs devine systems.
Hence Forth NO PEACE.

LOTZA LUV
P.s. NO PEACE CAN BE FOUND FROM A LIE
This includes religion.

I won't argue with you about the illegitimacy of religion, I hate religion. I'm a redemption, not a religionist. Look at the short video in my sig titled "Do You HATE religion as much as I do?".

Religion in any form is a construction of man. It's all about man's attempts to reach out and justify himself to God, redemption is about God reaching down to man and reconciling man to Himself. Redemption and religion are complete opposites.

reply to post by jmdewey60

The antichrist is something that has always been around. If an organization is made to support antichrist principles they would be of the antichrist spirit.

No one claimed the term antichrist was in Daniel JM, the apostle John coined the term "antechristos" and speaks of both the "spirit of antichrist" which was in the world at that time, and still is today, and "THE" antichrist which is a specific coming person. Anyone who would deny the divinity of Christ and deny the relationship between the Father and the Son is the "spirit" of antichrist. The Jewish authorities had this spirit at the time of Christ. It's manifested in religions like Islam, Mormonism, and Jehovah's Witnesses today.

"THE" antichrist, is a specific one who will come, a specific man called by many names, (33 of them) specifically "the man of sin/lawlessness". The personal pronoun "THE" in Greek signifies a specific one, different from any other. It's "Hu antechristos" in the Greek. This coming "man of sin" is the one who will sit in the temple of God and will show himself to be God. This is specifically from 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, not Daniel.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-5

Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I won't argue with you about the illegitimacy of religion, I hate religion. I'm a redemption, not a religionist. Look at the short video in my sig titled "Do You HATE religion as much as I do?".

I will 100% agree with you about religion. It is what caused the evil state of the world.
I do see that in all you're posts. That you are very spiritual and in you're heart are a true follower.
Even though we may disagree please know I have the upmost respect for you and tonza luv.

LOTZA LUV
I will watch the vid now and thxs.
I did visit the other site in you're sig as well

reply to post by Mividau


Hey, found this, it will help clear things up regarding Abraham's two sons and the different inheritances and promises God made to Abraham regarding each of them:

TWO INHERITANCES


These two sons were not to share the same inheritance. In Galatians 4:30 the casting out of the son of the bondwoman was to create a separation between Ishmael's and Isaac's inheritance. Verse 30 is a quotation from Genesis 21:10 "Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac." This was not easy for Abraham. Because of Abraham's grief, God comforted him in that He would bless Ishmael in Genesis 21:13 "And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed." We find further in Genesis 21:20 "And God was with the lad . . ." Ishmael's inheritance was in the wilderness instead of the land flowing with milk and honey. Genesis 21:21 "And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran . . ." Ishmael did not lose his inheritance. His inheritance would be in a different area of land promised to Abraham in Genesis 15:18 "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:" Even the land to the East of the Jordan River was promised to Abraham 's seed yet they are separate from the land flowing with milk and honey.

Inheritance

Originally posted by Mividau
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I won't argue with you about the illegitimacy of religion, I hate religion. I'm a redemption, not a religionist. Look at the short video in my sig titled "Do You HATE religion as much as I do?".

I will 100% agree with you about religion. It is what caused the evil state of the world.
I do see that in all you're posts. That you are very spiritual and in you're heart are a true follower.
Even though we may disagree please know I have the upmost respect for you and tonza luv.

LOTZA LUV
I will watch the vid now and thxs.
I did visit the other site in you're sig as well

Thank you for your kindness, I appreciate it. But that's all wood, stubble and hay. I give Christ all the glory, I'm just a servant.

God Bless you.

NuT

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Anyone who would deny the divinity of Christ and deny the relationship between the Father and the Son is the "spirit" of antichrist.

Let me quote this particular verse you are referring to out of the few that mention the antichrist.

Who is the liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the antichrist: the person who denies the Father and the Son. Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. The person who confesses the Son has the Father also.

What John is saying is that if one denies Jesus, then they are also rejecting God, since God is who sent Jesus to us, to believe in. This has nothing to do with divinity. So, another verse taken out of context and not even quoted directly, so as to be able to put a spin on it.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Anyone who would deny the divinity of Christ and deny the relationship between the Father and the Son is the "spirit" of antichrist.

Let me quote this particular verse you are referring to out of the few that mention the antichrist.

Who is the liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the antichrist: the person who denies the Father and the Son. Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. The person who confesses the Son has the Father also.

What John is saying is that if one denies Jesus, then they are also rejecting God, since God is who sent Jesus to us, to believe in. This has nothing to do with divinity. So, another verse taken out of context and not even quoted directly, so as to be able to put a spin on it.

1 John 4:2-3 ~

"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."

Philippians 2:6-8 ~

"Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Antichrist


John 20:28-29 ~

"Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

John 1:1& 1:14 ~

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

2 Peter 1:1 ~

"To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:"

God, the Word, the Son, became flesh and blood and tabernacled amongst men. I'm NOT going to apologize for declaring the same thing that Thomas, John, and Peter declared, that Jesus is not just LORD, but also God. In Revelation 1:8, and Rev. 22;13 Jesus calls Himself the Alpha and Omega, and the Almighty.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You're welcome btw. I watched the vid and read you're other post.
Loved that guy, dont you hate when others can better state how you feel lol.
Thats where I thought you were comeing from.

You believe in spiritual works and walking the path.
Where alot of others believe the self rightous works and talking the talk.
There is a difference which most people dont seem to get.

Now that I can fully see where you are comeing from (He said it better lol)
I agree with you, which is why I kept saying trying to walk in Jesus's shoes is alot harder.
You're 2nd post helped cleared up the inheritence thing for me as well.

LOTZA LUV

reply to post by NOTurTypical

declared, that Jesus is not just LORD, but also God.

Let me quote one the verse you gave as evidence (I suppose that is why you quoted them) but with just a tiny bit of context.

From Simeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, have been granted a faith just as precious as ours. May grace and peace be lavished on you as you grow in the rich knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord!

When the NT was written, they did not put commas in so now we have to try to figure out where we would put them in, so as to conform with modern usage. There is a grammatical theory which allows the two things to be run together, but to me, the theory is negated by what happens in the second verse where Peter repeats the phrase but in a less ambiguous way. Again this is the manner of operation by those who were the inventors of this philosophy. To use highly ambiguous little bits from the Bible to inflate into a thole theology.
The other verses I have dealt with before. Suppose some thing, or some one is somehow a god, and then becomes flesh, at that moment they are no longer a god. Whatever Jesus was before he was a fetus, and after the resurrection does not affect his, during the time in between, being a man.
The reason the philosophy wants to focus attention on Jesus being god is to make us not believe that we can become like Jesus in this lifetime, regardless of how many times Jesus and the Apostles told us we must be holy.

Originally posted by Mividau
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You're welcome btw. I watched the vid and read you're other post.
Loved that guy, dont you hate when others can better state how you feel lol.
Thats where I thought you were comeing from.

You believe in spiritual works and walking the path.
Where alot of others believe the self rightous works and talking the talk.
There is a difference which most people dont seem to get.

Now that I can fully see where you are comeing from (He said it better lol)
I agree with you, which is why I kept saying trying to walk in Jesus's shoes is alot harder.
You're 2nd post helped cleared up the inheritence thing for me as well.

LOTZA LUV

Yeah, I think the only works that count are those done through the leading, guidance, and the power of the Holy Spirit that indwels us. Works of our flesh are wood, stubble, and hay, they'll be burnt up when the purifying fires try them. Love ya, God Bless you.

reply to post by jmdewey60


The reason they didn't put commas in is there exists no such thing as a comma in the Greek. And I'm going to exclain the same as Thomas, Jesus is my Lord and my God. I confess and believe this without ever seeing the Lord in person.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

The reason they didn't put commas in is there exists no such thing as a comma in the Greek. And I'm going to exclain the same as Thomas, Jesus is my Lord and my God. I confess and believe this without ever seeing the Lord in person.

Have a good time with that.
Paul saw a risen glorified Christ, Thomas saw a risen glorified Christ. Maybe Peter was thinking of a risen glorified Christ, none of which says Jesus was anything but an ordinary man up until he was filled with the Holy Spirit, which is now available to us. You go beyond calling Jesus God, and turn that around to prove that we can not be holy which means there is no Bride of Christ, a holy people on Earth to be taken to Heaven for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. You seem to want Jesus to return to a world full of sinners. That is exactly what Satan wants, so he has proof that he needs not be punished for his sin, since God is now forced to accept only sinners. My point being, you have subscribed to the philosophy of Satan.(otherwise known as dispensationalism)

reply to post by jmdewey60


Again, pardon my literal reading of the text, but the "Prince of this world" has been judged already (John 16:11). Christ is God incarnate, how exactly did Christ lead a sinless life before being filled with the Holy Spirit if He was only human? Why does Jesus tell the devil in the wilderness that only God is to be worshipped, yet accept worship numerous times without rebuke? Jesus is God the Son, He took the form of man at His incarnation. All things were created by Him and for Him. Jesus Christ is the Almighty, He declares this in Revelation 1:8.

Why doesn't Jesus rebuke Thomas for calling Him his God in John? Why does Jesus condone and encourage worship???

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Again, pardon my literal reading of the text, but the "Prince of this world" has been judged already (John 16:11). Christ is God incarnate, how exactly did Christ lead a sinless life before being filled with the Holy Spirit if He was only human? Why does Jesus tell the devil in the wilderness that only God is to be worshipped, yet accept worship numerous times without rebuke? Jesus is God the Son, He took the form of man at His incarnation. All things were created by Him and for Him. Jesus Christ is the Almighty, He declares this in Revelation 1:8.

Why doesn't Jesus rebuke Thomas for calling Him his God in John? Why does Jesus condone and encourage worship???

Satan is not dead yet.
Saying "Christ is God incarnate" is a slogan based on an interpretation and bears no weight as evidence.
I understand that when Christianity was combined with the state, I would be considered a heretic but now people are free to not believe in God at all, if they feel like it. Since we are not under threat currently for our views people have been free to interpret the Bible the way they want, instead of how they are told to. Wikipedia has an article on Incarnation and gets into two types of incarnation, fortuitous, and necessary. Fortuitous would be along the lines of "God with us", where necessary would be what was necessary for our salvation. I would take the second type of incarnation to include sanctification, where Jesus is our example. What Jesus did before he meets up with John the Baptist, we are not told other than when he was young. What happened in between would be pure speculation and worthless as evidence in an argument. My opinion is that his parents were extremely pious people and his family that he was around were holy because of being of a high priestly order of Levites, so he had no bad influences to lead him into sin. God selected Jesus from the time of Adam and Eve to be born with a specific genetic makeup that was more resistant to sin. David is the key example of how Jesus was, when David was younger and had not started killing men yet. David was someone who was sinless at that point in his life when he told Saul he could take Goliath. So to say that Jesus could not have been like that is not believable. My point being, Jesus had to be a man like us for the redemption of mankind. God coming to Earth just looking like a man is completely useless. If you want to say we need the blood of a god then there are tons of heathen religions already with lots of dying gods. The real God does not work that way.
"Jesus is God the Son" is another slogan and bears no weight as evidence.
As for Jesus being the Almighty God, let's take a look at Revelation 1. I will quote where that passage starts out.

Grace and peace to you from “he who is,” and who was, and who is still to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ – the faithful witness,

God is the one who is and who was and who is still to come, which is the same person what three verses later is called God, along with the same line of being is, was, and will be.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God – the one who is, and who was, and who is still to come – the All-Powerful!

As for the exclamation by Thomas, he was there when Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father. This may have been his realization that Jesus was the evidence of the reality of God the Father. He did not have to be claiming that Jesus was God the Father himself. Thinking of Jesus actually and literally being somehow a God himself would have been completely foreign to him.
As for all things being made by him, obviously that was before the incarnation.
let me quote a key text.

who though he existed in the form of God
did not regard equality with God
as something to be grasped,
but emptied himself
by taking on the form of a slave,

Notice he went from "in the form of God" to "taking on the form of a slave" so he went from one thing to the other. He did not cling to the fist thing as he was going into the second thing. He let that go and accepted completely the second thing.

Originally posted by Mividau
]reply to post by Joecroft

 

You can find an introduction to the text online here Introduction - The Secret Book of John and if you scroll about half way down, you will find 2 links, where you can choose to read either the short version or the long version.

Thanks so much for the help.
I just recenlty found out about it.
Isnt it suppose to be the book he ate ??

I don’t think that gospel was the one John ate; but the whole eating thing did ring a bell…

Found this verse from Revelations; maybe that is what you were thinking of…


Revelation 10:10

took the little scroll from the angel's hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour.

Peace be with you Mividau


- JC

reply to post by jmdewey60


Who said satan was dead? I said he has already been judged. This is what Christ said, not I. And you're wrong, David was "born in iniquity". Meaning he was born a sinner, just like all of us. Christ pre-existed the world and the Word says all things were created "by Him and for Him".

You didn't answer my question.. If Jesus tells the devil in the wilderness that man shall worship God alone then why does He not just allow but encourage people to worship Him? I've never said Jesus was the father, so i don't know why you mentioned that. Jesus is God the Son. He's not the Father and He's not the Holy Spirit. John declared Christ God, Peter does, Paul does, and Thomas. Christ Himself says He is the "Alpha and Omega" and the "Almighty" in Revelation 1:8, and in Revelation chapter 22 He specifically says "I Jesus" after referring to Himself yet again as the "Alpha and Omega".

To anyone reading this discourse and is interested, Dr. Chuck Missler explains the Godhead perfectly, and highlights all the different verses defining the plurality in the unity. The NT is overt is showing that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one entity, God.