The Holy Spirit is my Proof

That is a theory by one person, which has been completely discredited by all the other scholars involved in the DDS research.

3.Qumran-Sadducean Theory on the Origin of the Dead Sea Scrolls
Dr. Lawrence H. Schiffman, Ethel and Irvin A. Edelman Professor of Hebrew and Judaic Studies at New York University has proposed another alternative called the Qumran-Sadducean Theory. Dr. Schiffman argues that the Qumran community was led by a group of Zadokite (Sadducee) priests. The Sadducees were a Jewish sect mentioned in the New Testament who were concerned with strict observance of religious laws. Dr. Schiffman's theory is based on several scrolls that cite Sadducee principles for dating religious calendars and purity laws identical to those in other Sadducee documents.

6.The 'No Essenes' Theory on the Origin of the Dead Sea Scrolls
In 2009, Israeli scholar Rachel Elior, a professor of Jewish mysticism at Jerusalem's Hebrew University, put forth a theory reported in Time magazine that the Essenes never existed at all. Instead, Dr. Eilor claims that Josephus made them up. She said she bases her theory on the fact that in all 900-plus scrolls found in the caves near Qumran, there is no mention of the word "Essene" or "Essenes." Like Dr. Schiffman, Dr. Elior said she thinks that Josephus' "Essenes" were really Zadokites banished from Jerusalem by Seleucid rulers in the 2nd century B.C. Members of this exiled priestly caste took their writings with them when they left, she argues.

Link 6 theories into the orgins of the DSS Link

So that makes 2 theories involvieing Zadokites..........

I mean in all seriousness, Hydro has a point that neither one of you seem to address.
Why would GOD in a world of darkness leave a tiny complicated light for you to follow.
He doesnt, He leaves you a big simple light of truth. No twist and turns, 3 steps back 1 forward.

Outta everything I wrote that was the one thing you pounce on. Aparently you are not seeming to get where I am going with all this are you. You seem to just assum I am some stupid person, I hope you're not but it does seem that way.

Hydro has a point in the fact that believers are to help those searching for truth. You guys just brush him off like he's nothing. One might be telling him he's going to hell, while the other begins to bicker about it. How are we suppose to help the lost if we are busy bickering over scripture? I may not be as learned as you are but how hard would it have been to open Revelations and tell him how we're judged?
I am not saying become a car salesmen. But use that brain you enjoy flaunting around and help a brother out.
Can you even see my point now. Do you get it at all. There is something wrong with the blue print.

Heres another way to put my point about pauline doctorine

An architech draws up blueprints for a house. It gest built by contractors.
But something seems togo wrong and the house falls down.
The contractors get blamed for it. The architech cant be wrong he doesnt build them.
Now this arcitech draws a 100 houses up, contractors build them all again.
They all fall down. Why? The same contractors didnt build all of the houses.
They even tried to make variations were needed.
Why? Because the architech didnt give good blueprints.
Now imagine it 28,000 times.

Because 28,000 times pauline doctorine (blueprint) failed. Even with every variation possable, Failed.
People are so busy argueing over his views of what Jesus said that you forget what Jesus said.
Hello if you have the Holy Spirit, You have the ability to descern these things, correct.
You claim to have it. Why is the holy spirit telling you 2 totaly different things.
The HOLY SPIRIT doesnt lie and is not confuseing.

LOTZA LUV
Trust in JESUS and YOU'RE FATHER. Seek and you shall find, Ask and you shall recieve.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Yeah.. That's all you got? Elect = "chosen" by God for a purpose. Now do your search for anytime "chose" or "chosen" or it's synonyms are used. Now you're getting quite silly.

Feel free to go ahead and give your spin on the quote from Peter. Show how that fits into your philosophy.

How it fits into my philosophy? My philosophy is Christ crucified for our sins, Him buried, and Him rose again after 3 days. That's all I have absolute faith in. I don't know if "philosophy" is a good word to use. 2 Peter is addressed to believers who have received a "like precious faith" with him and the other apostles.

Peter is exhorting us to add Christ-like virtues to our faith. That with those Christ-like virtues added to our foundation of faith we'll be lacking nothing and won't be the unfruitful servants that we'd be without. Peter doesn't want the reader to forsake seeking the aforementioned virtues and is exhorting us to continually strive for holiness and steadfastness in Christ.

2 Peter is a pastoral letter to the believer, and was written very shortly before his death.

Originally posted by Cor Leonis
As we look behind us, how many have we trampled? Man's most basic cry before God is to be right(eous).

The Apostle Paul writes: "What, came the word of God out from you? Or, came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But, if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." (1 Corinthians 14:36-39)

OP's point exactly so as to guide all believers to the same page. There are too many pages and hardly any agree!

"forbid not to speak with tongues" This is not about a private interpertation of what some think this tongues thing might be. If some do not know the truth according to a right dividing concerning this matter. Maybe some should not speak and just learn.

First, Hi OP how have you been?
Second I agree with you're 1st 3 statements.

Third I know about the exact tounges you are talking about. I have seen the "heavenly ones" of people shouting undescernabley. I even taped recorded these and sent them into towson state university inmd. I had a foster brother who went there and had them listened to. Then I sent them to friend that went to Mt, st. Marys in md.

The ones the Apostles got was the ability to speak in forgien language. These new ones I dont know.
Do you have a theory on it. No one can translate them, Which is why I believe them to be a false miracle.

LOTZA LUV OP

reply to post by Mividau

So that makes 2 theories involvieing Zadokites..........

What I was talking about was this theory that some people connected to the DSS were some sort of proto-Christian group and what later Christianity was based on. All this would require basically tossing out the entire NT. What I was getting at specifically was that supposedly there is amongst these writings a description of a character they do not name but call The Liar. Speculation is that they were the real people the christianity myth was based on and the liar was Paul. But it is all a theory and not one a lot of scholars in that field of study consider as being credible.
As for opening the biblical description of Judgement, I am trying to establish that there is one that we need to be concerned with. As for the particulars, I don't see that as being particularly useful for evangelism.
We all have our own individual talents and maybe yours is more along that line. Maybe my only talent is being argumentative.

reply to post by Mividau


They are "tongues of angels", or as commonly called a "heavenly language". I to have heard this tongue numerous times.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

2 Peter is addressed to believers who have received a "like precious faith" with him and the other apostles.

The official spin by your sect is that according to your philosophy, election, is literal, and they are the elite cadre to replace the fallen former leaders.
Very nice way to explain away doing anything for actual salvation, just extra power and authority on Earth, very clever, good for you and your cult will give you an award.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Elite? No, not at all. We are all justified by the same Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter was written to believers, not unbelievers. It's a pastoral letter to belivers to exhort us us to add the Christ-like virtues to our already-present faith to advance to maturity so that we'd lack nothing. It means nothing about "replacing" any apostles, unless you mean carrying the torch and banner of Christ after they departed Earth. Peter begins the lette by saying we have received a "like precious faith" as they have, not by our efforts, but on grounds of Christ's imputed righteousness. That only means we have the same justification, not that we have the same resume of service.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Elite? No, not at all. We are all justified by the same Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter was written to believers, not unbelievers. It's a pastoral letter to belivers to exhort us us to add the Christ-like virtues to our already-present faith to advance to maturity so that we'd lack nothing. It means nothing about "replacing" any apostles, unless you mean carrying the torch and banner of Christ after they departed Earth. Peter begins the lette by saying we have received a "like precious faith" as they have, not by our efforts, but on grounds of Christ's imputed righteousness. That only means we have the same justification, not that we have the same resume of service.

So your answer is: when you see a verse without the word election in it, it is really talking about election, and when you see a verse that does have the word election in it, it is really talking about something else.
Quite some philosophy.
And no one in your sect ever wonders or questions this apparent contradiction?
The cult is very successful in its brainwashing techniques, it would seem.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Elite? No, not at all. We are all justified by the same Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter was written to believers, not unbelievers. It's a pastoral letter to belivers to exhort us us to add the Christ-like virtues to our already-present faith to advance to maturity so that we'd lack nothing. It means nothing about "replacing" any apostles, unless you mean carrying the torch and banner of Christ after they departed Earth. Peter begins the lette by saying we have received a "like precious faith" as they have, not by our efforts, but on grounds of Christ's imputed righteousness. That only means we have the same justification, not that we have the same resume of service.

So your answer is: when you see a verse without the word election in it, it is really talking about election, and when you see a verse that does have the word election in it, it is really talking about something else.
Quite some philosophy.

Perhaps you misses it a few posts ago... Election means "chosen", nothing more, nothing less. We have elections every year where we choose between candidates. Those chosen candidates we refer to as "elected" officials. How difficult is it to grasp that election simply means "chose" or "chosen"???

And no one in your sect ever wonders or questions this apparent contradiction?

Contradiction? A 4th grader knows what election means. Ask one.

The cult is very successful in its brainwashing techniques, it would seem.

Here we go again..

2 Peter 1:1

"To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:"



Hmmm, we have a faith of "equal standing" with the apostles, not by our works, but by "the righteousness" of whom? By who's righteousness?

Jesus's righteousness. Our God and Savior.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Here we go again..

I have to tell the truth.
You are a dispensationalist and it is not just a philosophy but a sect and it seems to have some sort of organization, even if there is no such thing as a specific church building with a sign in front saying, The Church of the Dispensation of the Gentiles. It is more insidious than that and uses codes where you do see a sign out front where at the bottom it reads, Fundamentalist, Conservative, Evangelical, King James Version Reading.
When a dispensationalist sees that, they know to pull in and park and pull out their KJV Bible and go inside.
This is a movement that used money and influence to buy their way into having the Scofield Study Bible published by the Oxford Press, to give it an air of respectability when in fact it was a propaganda piece to support Zionism. They knew ahead of time that creating the Zion envisioned would require much bloodshed so they created a form of evangelical religion that had no value on morality. Then they set up the idea that Christians would be taken out of the world to be replaced by sanctified Jews. Armageddon is now turned into an attempt by the evil world to destroy the temple in Jerusalem, which now is required to be built in order for prophecy to be fulfilled. The three things go together, hand and glove. Rapture, no morality, world hegemony by Zionist Jews.
I am taking the trouble to point this out because these are the ravening wolves that the NT warns about but they are not preaching law but preaching an unconcern for the laws (look up the verses) and not the written law but the spiritual law. These people who are behind this sect have no regard for and even hatred towards Jesus and Christians. Christians (according to the power behind zionism) are to be dealt with in the same way as the Palestinians today, or the Canaanites of yesterday.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
2 Peter 1:1
"To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:"
Hmmm, we have a faith of "equal standing" with the apostles, not by our works, but by "the righteousness" of whom? By who's righteousness?
Jesus's righteousness. Our God and Savior.

You will be praised today by the world but tomorrow you will suffer mightily in the lake of fire.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Here we go again..

I have to tell the truth.

You are a dispensationalist and it is not just a philosophy but a sect and it seems to have some sort of organization, even if there is no such thing as a specific church building with a sign in front saying, The Church of the Dispensation of the Gentiles.

I believe in Dispensationalism not from any teaching I received from anyone, but by reading Romans 9, 10, and 11 where Paul details that God isn't finished with the Jews. I also trust God will be faithful to keep the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants He promised. I trust in His faithfulness. I also notice in Revelation that the church is no longer mentioned on Earth after chapter 4:1. SO I have my beliefs because I'm a literalist. If the word says X I believe X to be true. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is more insidious than that and uses codes where you do see a sign out front where at the bottom it reads, Fundamentalist, Conservative, Evangelical, King James Version Reading.

For the most part I read and quote from the ESV actually. Wrong again.

When a dispensationalist sees that, they know to pull in and park and pull out their KJV Bible and go inside.

Now you're just telling stories..

This is a movement that used money and influence to buy their way into having the Schonfeld Study Bible published by the Oxford Press, to give it an air of respectability when in fact it was a propaganda piece to support Zionism.

I had no idea what this was and had to do a Google search, apparently this Scoenfeld chap is a Lutheran Reverend and I'm not a Lutheran. Nor have I ever read his Bible. Before my ESV and KJV I used to read the NIV but tossed that out because it attacks the deity of Christ, His blood atonement, and the virgin birth.

They knew ahead of time that creating the Zion envisioned would require much bloodshed so they created a form of evangelical religion that had no value on morality. Then they set up the idea that Christians would be taken out of the world to be replaced by sanctified Jews.

Wow, in Revelation Jesus signifies the "candlesticks" as the churches, and when the seals are opened by Him the candlesticks are present in heaven. (That would imply if the churches are in heaven they are not on Earth when the seals are opened) Again, literal reading of the text. The entire purpose of the Great Tribulation is not God being gracious and allowing satan 7 years of free reign, it's to drive the Jews to accept their Messiah both by jealousy and great affliction. "In their affliction they will seek me earnestly"

Armageddon is now turned into an attempt by the evil world to destroy the temple in Jerusalem, which now is required to be built in order for prophecy to be fulfilled. The three things go together, hand and glove. Rapture, no morality, world hegemony by Zionist Jews.

The Rapture is a Biblical concept. Common sense alone tells you that it must happen because there will be people alive on Earth when Christ returns. I have no clue what you mean by "no morality", we're all called to be moral, to conform to the image of Christ. And I don't quite get "hegemony", during the Tribulation the Bible says 2/3 will be slaughtered, which would mean double that was slaughtered in WWII.

And pardon me for reading the Bible literally again, but both Daniel and Christ said the antichrist would stand in the holy of holies and declare himself to be God. I don't know how this would happen without a holy of holies.

I am taking the trouble to point this out because these are the ravening wolves that the NT warns about but they are not preaching law but preaching an unconcern for the laws (look up the verses) and not the written law but the spiritual law.

Again, I apologize for a literal reading of the text:

"who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

Since you abhor unconcern for the written laws do you wear clothing of blended materials? Abstain from shellfish? Stone rebellious children? Stone homosexuals and adulterous people? Stay inside your home and rest on the Sabbath?

These people who are behind this sect have no regard for and even hatred towards Jesus and Christians.

I love Jesus and Christians, remember Jesus said to love each other? That doesn't seem like a troubling and challenging text to understand to me.

Christians (according to the power behind zionism) are to be dealt with in the same way as the Palestinians today, or the Canaanites of yesterday.

Gotcha. All I see is a world desperately seeking to attack the Abrahamic Covenant, they have been doing this since God made a covenant with Abraham.

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
2 Peter 1:1
"To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:"
Hmmm, we have a faith of "equal standing" with the apostles, not by our works, but by "the righteousness" of whom? By who's righteousness?
Jesus's righteousness. Our God and Savior.

You will be praised today by the world but tomorrow you will suffer mightily in the lake of fire.

Ahhh, yes, yet again I'm going to hell for reading the text literally. WE have received (been graced) with a faith "of equal standing" with the apostle's, by our righteousness? Nope, by the righteousness of Jesus Christ.

If I'm going to the lake of fire for claiming such then I'll be right there with Peter who wrote the words himself.

Absurd.

I forgive you for judging my eternal destiny. Apparently when Christ said never to do this that was just a take it or leave it suggestion. Thanks for clarifying.

You don't just have a problem with Dispensationalists, it's quite clear you have hatred towards us literalists as well.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Gotcha. All I see is a world desperately seeking to attack the Abrahamic Covenant, they have been doing this since God made a covenant with Abraham.

If you were a Christian, you would understand that the intended ultimate recipient of the promise was the world, through Jesus who was of the seed of Abraham.
What I was trying to get at is that the inventors of the philosophy you have adopted, are not Christians but Zionists who want Christians out of the way, to have only themselves as the inheritors of the promise.
Once fully deluded by this philosophy, the follower looses concern for all the people of the world, only focusing on themselves, with this emphasis on a personal, just for them, salvation.
This plays into the end game of the inventors, with Christians preparing for their ascension and overlooking the crimes of the people who they were led to believe are the true and only inheritors of the world.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

You don't just have a problem with Dispensationalists, it's quite clear you have hatred towards us literalists as well.

I am doing for you what Mividau suggested I should have done for Hydroman, which is to open for you the Judgement of Revelation.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Gotcha. All I see is a world desperately seeking to attack the Abrahamic Covenant, they have been doing this since God made a covenant with Abraham.

If you were a Christian, you would understand that the intended ultimate recipient of the promise was the world, through Jesus who was of the seed of Abraham.

*Sigh* Here we go again, judging my salvation in Christ. I believe Christ died according to the scriptures, was buried, and rose again according to the scriptures. I believe He alone is the all-sufficient savior of the world and is the Messiah. Read Genesis 15:18-21. This covenant was unconditional and everlasting.

What I was trying to get at is that the inventors of the philosophy you have adopted, are not Christians but Zionists who want Christians out of the way, to have only themselves as the inheritors of the promise.

What "philosophy"??? I believe God isn't finished with Israel because His promise was unconditional and everlasting. The entire reason God placed Abraham in a deep sleep and made the covenant with Himself is because it rests upon His faithfulness, not Abraham's faithfulness. Secondly, I believe God isn't finished with the Jews because Paul says the same thing in Romans 9,10, and 11, as well as Revelation, where God deals explicitly with the Jews and the world through the Jews after chapter 4:1. The church (symbolized by the candlesticks) are present in heaven when the seals are opened.

Once fully deluded by this philosophy, the follower looses concern for all the people of the world, only focusing on themselves, with this emphasis on a personal, just for them, salvation.

Wrong again. Paul who wrote Romans 9,10, and 11 expressing his wishes he could trade his salvation if every member of his Jewish brethren could be saved instead. And I've never met any Christian who didn't want to see everyone, even their worst enemies to come to a saving covenant relationship with Jesus Christ.

This plays into the end game of the inventors, with Christians preparing for their ascension and overlooking the crimes of the people who they were led to believe are the true and only inheritors of the world.

"Preparing for our ascension"??? Didn't Christ tell us to "occupy" till He arrived? We should live morally if He could come tonight, but plan our futures as if He could tarry for another 1,000 years. It's the doctrine of immanency. Paul looked toward the rapture in his time as well. "WE who are alive and remain.."

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You don't just have a problem with Dispensationalists, it's quite clear you have hatred towards us literalists as well.

I am doing for you what Mividau suggested I should have done for Hydroman, which is to open for you the Judgement of Revelation.

You're not doing anything "for me". You're puffing up your pride and self-righteousness for all to see. You're condemning me constantly for taking a literal reading of scripture. Peter says we have a like precious faith as they do through Christ's righteousness, and for that I'm going to the "lake of fire". How edifying JM.

I'm not anything other than a blood-bought, born-again Christian who has a literal approach to Hermaneutics. Nothing more, nothing less. Rage on.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

*Sigh* Here we go again, judging my salvation in Christ.

You cease being a Christian by adopting a philosophy which is a human invention meant to destroy Christianity by infiltrating it and subverting it by teaching against the truths presented by Jesus that salvation does not come from a person making the claim that they are saved.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

*Sigh* Here we go again, judging my salvation in Christ.

You cease being a Christian by adopting a philosophy which is a human invention meant to destroy Christianity by infiltrating it and subverting it by teaching against the truths presented by Jesus that salvation does not come from a person making the claim that they are saved.

Who said salvation came from the person making the claim?? Salvation comes through the life, death, and resurrection of the Son of God. Available to all who believe and ask for forgiveness. He redeemed us, we didn't redeem ourselves.